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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2019 at 5:48pm
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Originally posted by feeder feeder wrote:

The original object of this thread was to inform people like myself whom have had no prior experience of the customary permit system.
 
I have had no problem with the customary permits until I saw for myself the outrageous greed of the permit holders and the issuing party and the inevitable wastage after the cultural event.
 
If there was a national standard on permit take and permit issuing then it could be on the right track.
 
I don't see myself bothering to apply for a customary permit, I can catch enough to feed my family under existing rules.
 
Mataitai reserves as I understand, are for customary and recreational fishers under the current law, no commercial.
 
Cheers

+1. 
I can't ever see me applying for a permit.
Alan
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2019 at 6:48pm
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Originally posted by pjc pjc wrote:

What would be so wrong with Maori only fishing zones?We the European haven't done a very good job of looking after the natural resources,I can see this would become an apartheid sort of issue. But before European arrived Maori would fish an area whether that be for shellfish/flounder then close for a period of time(rahui)and move somewhere else and repeat the process over again.
If we look overseas ,particularly America where the Europeans killed of the buffalo to drive the red Indian out of futile land.
Africa the poaching that goes on maybe down by natives supplying a European driven market or lions(big cats)as trophy hunts by the wealthy. Asia destroying plantations for palm oil which is killing of the Asian elephant/gorilla .We have a lot to answer for!


You can not compare 70,000 subsistence living Maori   in the 1800s with 750,000 part maori fishing with modern tools.
70000 people with no modern tools couldn't wreck the fishery if they tried. What they could do is deplete a small area and then move on. By the time they went back it would be recovered because there was so much area and so few people. Cant do that with 750,000 people anymore. Dreaming that things can be managed like they were when NZ was almost unpopulated isn't the answer and doesn't mean that traditional Maori management will work with a 5 million population
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2019 at 7:32pm
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You maybe correct "Tagit" but we need to reckonise Maori rights. This is what "sea change" was to do.Give Maori rights to sea and foreshore which allowed you and I to fish but they could set the limit and species. I am not Maori nor have relations who are but the time is coming fast whether we like it or Maori have rights and we to accept that fact.

Once again I am not saying you and I have depleted the stock but non Maori commercial activity certainly have.

Maybe time you sat down with some Komatua and listen to what they have to say not the young radical who think we owe them something.

Fault on both sides but we need to reckonise their rights.Where do you get 750.000 maori from fishing with modern tools??please explain!
water water everywhere,how many fish does it hold?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2019 at 9:06pm
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Maori own a big portion of the commercial fleet and quota. They fish a lot of it by leasing foreign vessels. What are they doing to fix the massive issues we have with commercial fishing? Where is all this special management that they are going to apply?

I am sure you can sit down with dedicated and well intentioned Komatua to discuss how they would like to manage their local fish stocks. I haven't myself, but I know others who have. That doesn't mean that they will do it better than a properly designed scientific model that hasn't been politically hijacked. Their background in fisheries management isn't with a 5 million population. What you would really be relying on is the political clout of Maori to achieve fisheries controls that the government could implement tomorrow if they weren't so 'captured' by the commercial sector. That to me is just plain dumb and we should focus more on sorting out our political system instead.

My personal experience has been to be told that I am 'unwelcome' in an area that the local Maori felt they 'owned' and to be threatened with assault by a Ngati Whatua who told me that they 'owned the sea' when I suggested that he slowed down and stopped putting other boats at danger by speeding through the marina.  You can't ignore that whilst one part of Maori politics may be well intentioned, others may not be the same.  Who knows which side will hold the political power over any fisheries management in the future. The ones that are good are often very good, but the ones that are bad.....

As I have already said, I believe in letting small coastal Maori communities have a bit more say in how their local area is managed, and those with real history in an area to have some additional rights to feed themselves in a traditional way.  The trouble with SeaChange etc is that it tries to go way beyond that. My families history in the Hauraki Gulf goes back nearly 100 years and in the Northland fisheries probably predates the Treaty. I have been fishing both personally for over 50 years. So unless some person has a much better and consistent history in the fishery why am I going to give over control to them unless I truly believe that it will produce long term good and not just end up as another political hijack? 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2019 at 1:51pm
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Personal feeling is this is apartheid
slowly going where everyone else has already been
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2019 at 5:52pm
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Personal feeling is this is apartheid

 Glad someone else posted that...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2019 at 7:30pm
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More like post-apartheid SA to my mind and everyone just sucks it up.


World's most boring jetski "pilot".
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2019 at 8:07pm
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Are there any Maori on Fish.net who can give a genuine inside to how it all works??
From the outside looking in,this thread appears to be a white mans domain being very racist against Maori who through no fault of their own were given this "Customary right"by the white man.
There said it. That is what a person of the public probably would see if they stumbled across this thread.

Probably go as far as to lock the thread or have it totally deleted !
water water everywhere,how many fish does it hold?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2019 at 8:20pm
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Cut the bullsh*t pjc, being bought up in a non racist family I consider your remarks offensive.
 
Cheers
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2019 at 8:21pm
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Originally posted by pjc pjc wrote:

Are there any Maori on Fish.net who can give a genuine inside to how it all works??
From the outside looking in,this thread appears to be a white mans domain being very racist against Maori who through no fault of their own were given this "Customary right"by the white man.
There said it. That is what a person of the public probably would see if they stumbled across this thread.

Probably go as far as to lock the thread or have it totally deleted !
Clearly you have been drinking.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2019 at 9:41pm
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I think everyone has had a good talk about this now so lets just lock this thread before what has been a pretty good discussion so far becomes a less good one.
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