Covid 19 - fishing & anything related

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 2021 at 4:43pm
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Titanium
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Originally posted by Kevin.S Kevin.S wrote:

Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:

Well there is a pretty consistent spike in the recent past 12 weeks of the UK graph. It is about as consistent as the year has got. But they are running well above the average line even taking away actual Covid related deaths and constant since the middle of summer.


Just because the extra deaths are not from covid it doesn't mean they are not indirectly caused by the pandemic.  It has been virtually impossible for anyone in the UK to get a doctors appointment for 18 months or so, and still is for many.  Lots of illness has been missed by zoom consultation.  Lots of hospital procedures and operations have been cancelled.  This has increased deaths from all sorts of illness.  Not directly from covid, but they would probably have survived if not for the pandemic.  Studies suggest that 6 out of 10 people who would normally have been sent for cancer investigation have not been.  If all the ICU beds are full of covid patients it's tough luck if you need one for something else.


Oh I have no doubt the excess deaths are a result of the pandemic Kevin.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 2021 at 4:45pm
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Originally posted by whippersnappyr whippersnappyr wrote:

Originally posted by Crochet Cast Crochet Cast wrote:

Nah. Correlation V causation.
If everyone was vaccinated it would be a pandemic of the vaccinated. Pandemic of the unvaccinated is correct allowing for a little poetic licence because the greatest percentage of people hospitalised with COVID are unvaccinated. This is disproportionate to the % population f unvaccinated people in the population.
Fact vaccination give vastly improved outcomes.
Yes the government messaging is very much sanitised because they are pushing vaccination but the data is there not hidden.
Read the potential side effects of any over the counter medication and you might get paranoid or freaked out.

Your right to be skeptical but the evidence is overwhelming.



You can't draw any conclusions from just quoting the guardian or any article.  Almost certainly the vaxxed sick patients in hospital are older and have risk factors than the unvaxxed ones.

Like for like the data is crystal clear the overwhelming benefit of vaccines.

Unfortunately many of the antivax commentators just don't have the knowledge or expertise to even understand the information they look at or they do and deliberately choose to misinterpret it.




Quite right on facts being completely evaded by many 😂 In so many ways.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote chris_gee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 2021 at 11:41pm
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Talk of the blind leading us down the garden path and being patronising to  boot. Who cares what some employer organisation rep thinks if he is ignorant.

Try these UK official figures for the latest 4 weeks to Oct 10
Age  Cases per 100k double vaxed   Cases per 100k unvaxed.
40-49                 1455                                   696
70-79                   451                                   253

So which group is spreading it?

Oh and by the way UK has about 92% with antibodies and roughly 80% vaxed from memory. But 1/60 getting infected in a week and 1/45 in Scotland..

Anyone ever heard of Israel etc?

And not a word on alternative measures.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote whippersnappyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 hours 18 minutes ago at 9:25am
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selective quoting out of context with no source and entirely missing the point again. 

Here is the latest data


Per my earlier point you either don’t understand what you read (or got an antivaxxer snippet of the info from social media) or are just trying to be deliberately misleading. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote NZTurtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 hours 28 minutes ago at 11:15am
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Originally posted by chris_gee chris_gee wrote:

Talk of the blind leading us down the garden path and being patronising to  boot. Who cares what some employer organisation rep thinks if he is ignorant.

Try these UK official figures for the latest 4 weeks to Oct 10
Age  Cases per 100k double vaxed   Cases per 100k unvaxed.
40-49                 1455                                   696
70-79                   451                                   253

So which group is spreading it?

Oh and by the way UK has about 92% with antibodies and roughly 80% vaxed from memory. But 1/60 getting infected in a week and 1/45 in Scotland..

Anyone ever heard of Israel etc?

And not a word on alternative measures.

So if there are 80% vaxed and 20% unvaxed, doesnt that mean that you are at twice more likely to get it than if you aren't. assuming all get tested? You have to multiply the 696 x4 to compare apples to apples so then 1455 vs 2784 or 1:1.9?

And is it correct that those that are vaxed are less likely to be hospitalised so less strain on the health system?




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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote chris_gee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 9 hours 52 minutes ago at 2:51pm
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@whippersnapper
I ignored you.
In this case I gave enough information to track the source. You cite the following week than I did
Try reading table 2. It is worse. You can attack my integrity as you wish. I limited myself to the figures.
@turtle
The rates are per 100k so per 100k the rates are roughly 2x. Per population if say 80% are vaccinated then the number of people infected is about 8x as many in the vaccinated as not.
Yes at this point hospitalisations and deaths are lower in the vaccinated  group.
However it is fair to say IMHO that the groups are not randomly assigned i.e. the vaccinated may not be the same as the unvac, but 1 attempt to adjust for this found little difference. Equally "deaths " may be with or due to. Similarly hospitalisations may not be solely due to Covid but when covid is discovered on hospitalisation (or acquired).
I can offer no explanation as to why the double vaxed are tested. It is unlikely that this is due to random testing. Indeed in the USA this is not reported unless hospitalised.
I will not be offering further comment. Not because I am overwhelmed by criticism but underwhelmed. I am not saying I am right rather the figures deserve acknowledgement.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote whippersnappyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8 hours 48 minutes ago at 3:55pm
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Originally posted by NZTurtle NZTurtle wrote:

Originally posted by chris_gee chris_gee wrote:

Talk of the blind leading us down the garden path and being patronising to  boot. Who cares what some employer organisation rep thinks if he is ignorant.

Try these UK official figures for the latest 4 weeks to Oct 10
Age  Cases per 100k double vaxed   Cases per 100k unvaxed.
40-49                 1455                                   696
70-79                   451                                   253

So which group is spreading it?

Oh and by the way UK has about 92% with antibodies and roughly 80% vaxed from memory. But 1/60 getting infected in a week and 1/45 in Scotland..

Anyone ever heard of Israel etc?

And not a word on alternative measures.

So if there are 80% vaxed and 20% unvaxed, doesnt that mean that you are at twice more likely to get it than if you aren't. assuming all get tested? You have to multiply the 696 x4 to compare apples to apples so then 1455 vs 2784 or 1:1.9?

And is it correct that those that are vaxed are less likely to be hospitalised so less strain on the health system?





Chris is right that the data shows that proportionally more vaxxed people have a positive covid test than those who are unvaxxed in the UK.  The linked document explains why this might be.

Essentially we aren't running a controlled trial.  The people in the different groups don't have the same profile.  For example in NZ at the moment more older and higher health risk people are vaxxed vs young people. So the outcome for a young unvaxxed person could well be better than the outcome for an older, health compromised vaxxed person.  What is clear though is that for every health risk and age group being vaxxed provide substantial protection from infection and by obvious extension transmission.

The same report that Chris reports snippets from without quotation shows that hospitalisations and death are substantially higher for all age groups in patients who are not vaccinated vs those who are. 

The efficacy of the vaccines is most powerfully demonstrated in the randomised controlled trials that were conducted prior to their approval as the trial ensures the participants are matched so that differences in outcome aren't due to difference in the people themselves (imagine if everyone given the vaccine was 80 and those not 18).  You can review the baselines characteristics of the trial population here

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7 hours 59 minutes ago at 4:44pm
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Back onto the controls here again.
Yesterday’s announcement was another joke and rightly so many people are fuming.
Australia is getting on with life @ 70% plus vaccinated but ours has to “world leading” not just good enough for some semblance of normal life.
I feel sorry for all the businesses affected but more than that is the kids who miss school and their friends.

I thinks time to put the so called experts back in the box and we all get to decide what level of risk management we will have.
If you want to live a level 4,3,2 or whatever the traffic light system rubbish is just go ahead and do it.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7 hours 31 minutes ago at 5:12pm
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Seems wucking simple to me. On December the 1st.NZ is opening up for bussiness .Not vaxed tough!

All AK DHBs to be at 90% another joke as the sector of AK who wont get vaxed just wont get vaxed. 11 in every 100 holding us to ransom and to all to encourage those not vaxed to get vaxed??

Got wondering is that certain group of unvaxed holding off till treaty claims settled??
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7 hours 22 minutes ago at 5:21pm
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Auckland as a whole is 89.5% vaccinated at least once. I believe it is.
Manukau 86%
Auckland 93%
North Shore 90%

When Auckland gets there it won’t mean anything on December 1st because it won’t be by then.
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