Covid 19 - fishing & anything related

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 2021 at 4:43pm
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Originally posted by Kevin.S Kevin.S wrote:

Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:

Well there is a pretty consistent spike in the recent past 12 weeks of the UK graph. It is about as consistent as the year has got. But they are running well above the average line even taking away actual Covid related deaths and constant since the middle of summer.


Just because the extra deaths are not from covid it doesn't mean they are not indirectly caused by the pandemic.  It has been virtually impossible for anyone in the UK to get a doctors appointment for 18 months or so, and still is for many.  Lots of illness has been missed by zoom consultation.  Lots of hospital procedures and operations have been cancelled.  This has increased deaths from all sorts of illness.  Not directly from covid, but they would probably have survived if not for the pandemic.  Studies suggest that 6 out of 10 people who would normally have been sent for cancer investigation have not been.  If all the ICU beds are full of covid patients it's tough luck if you need one for something else.


Oh I have no doubt the excess deaths are a result of the pandemic Kevin.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 2021 at 4:45pm
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Originally posted by whippersnappyr whippersnappyr wrote:

Originally posted by Crochet Cast Crochet Cast wrote:

Nah. Correlation V causation.
If everyone was vaccinated it would be a pandemic of the vaccinated. Pandemic of the unvaccinated is correct allowing for a little poetic licence because the greatest percentage of people hospitalised with COVID are unvaccinated. This is disproportionate to the % population f unvaccinated people in the population.
Fact vaccination give vastly improved outcomes.
Yes the government messaging is very much sanitised because they are pushing vaccination but the data is there not hidden.
Read the potential side effects of any over the counter medication and you might get paranoid or freaked out.

Your right to be skeptical but the evidence is overwhelming.



You can't draw any conclusions from just quoting the guardian or any article.  Almost certainly the vaxxed sick patients in hospital are older and have risk factors than the unvaxxed ones.

Like for like the data is crystal clear the overwhelming benefit of vaccines.

Unfortunately many of the antivax commentators just don't have the knowledge or expertise to even understand the information they look at or they do and deliberately choose to misinterpret it.




Quite right on facts being completely evaded by many 😂 In so many ways.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 2021 at 11:41pm
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Talk of the blind leading us down the garden path and being patronising to  boot. Who cares what some employer organisation rep thinks if he is ignorant.

Try these UK official figures for the latest 4 weeks to Oct 10
Age  Cases per 100k double vaxed   Cases per 100k unvaxed.
40-49                 1455                                   696
70-79                   451                                   253

So which group is spreading it?

Oh and by the way UK has about 92% with antibodies and roughly 80% vaxed from memory. But 1/60 getting infected in a week and 1/45 in Scotland..

Anyone ever heard of Israel etc?

And not a word on alternative measures.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 2021 at 9:25am
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selective quoting out of context with no source and entirely missing the point again. 

Here is the latest data


Per my earlier point you either don’t understand what you read (or got an antivaxxer snippet of the info from social media) or are just trying to be deliberately misleading. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 2021 at 11:15am
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Originally posted by chris_gee chris_gee wrote:

Talk of the blind leading us down the garden path and being patronising to  boot. Who cares what some employer organisation rep thinks if he is ignorant.

Try these UK official figures for the latest 4 weeks to Oct 10
Age  Cases per 100k double vaxed   Cases per 100k unvaxed.
40-49                 1455                                   696
70-79                   451                                   253

So which group is spreading it?

Oh and by the way UK has about 92% with antibodies and roughly 80% vaxed from memory. But 1/60 getting infected in a week and 1/45 in Scotland..

Anyone ever heard of Israel etc?

And not a word on alternative measures.

So if there are 80% vaxed and 20% unvaxed, doesnt that mean that you are at twice more likely to get it than if you aren't. assuming all get tested? You have to multiply the 696 x4 to compare apples to apples so then 1455 vs 2784 or 1:1.9?

And is it correct that those that are vaxed are less likely to be hospitalised so less strain on the health system?




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 2021 at 2:51pm
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@whippersnapper
I ignored you.
In this case I gave enough information to track the source. You cite the following week than I did
Try reading table 2. It is worse. You can attack my integrity as you wish. I limited myself to the figures.
@turtle
The rates are per 100k so per 100k the rates are roughly 2x. Per population if say 80% are vaccinated then the number of people infected is about 8x as many in the vaccinated as not.
Yes at this point hospitalisations and deaths are lower in the vaccinated  group.
However it is fair to say IMHO that the groups are not randomly assigned i.e. the vaccinated may not be the same as the unvac, but 1 attempt to adjust for this found little difference. Equally "deaths " may be with or due to. Similarly hospitalisations may not be solely due to Covid but when covid is discovered on hospitalisation (or acquired).
I can offer no explanation as to why the double vaxed are tested. It is unlikely that this is due to random testing. Indeed in the USA this is not reported unless hospitalised.
I will not be offering further comment. Not because I am overwhelmed by criticism but underwhelmed. I am not saying I am right rather the figures deserve acknowledgement.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 2021 at 3:55pm
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Originally posted by NZTurtle NZTurtle wrote:

Originally posted by chris_gee chris_gee wrote:

Talk of the blind leading us down the garden path and being patronising to  boot. Who cares what some employer organisation rep thinks if he is ignorant.

Try these UK official figures for the latest 4 weeks to Oct 10
Age  Cases per 100k double vaxed   Cases per 100k unvaxed.
40-49                 1455                                   696
70-79                   451                                   253

So which group is spreading it?

Oh and by the way UK has about 92% with antibodies and roughly 80% vaxed from memory. But 1/60 getting infected in a week and 1/45 in Scotland..

Anyone ever heard of Israel etc?

And not a word on alternative measures.

So if there are 80% vaxed and 20% unvaxed, doesnt that mean that you are at twice more likely to get it than if you aren't. assuming all get tested? You have to multiply the 696 x4 to compare apples to apples so then 1455 vs 2784 or 1:1.9?

And is it correct that those that are vaxed are less likely to be hospitalised so less strain on the health system?





Chris is right that the data shows that proportionally more vaxxed people have a positive covid test than those who are unvaxxed in the UK.  The linked document explains why this might be.

Essentially we aren't running a controlled trial.  The people in the different groups don't have the same profile.  For example in NZ at the moment more older and higher health risk people are vaxxed vs young people. So the outcome for a young unvaxxed person could well be better than the outcome for an older, health compromised vaxxed person.  What is clear though is that for every health risk and age group being vaxxed provide substantial protection from infection and by obvious extension transmission.

The same report that Chris reports snippets from without quotation shows that hospitalisations and death are substantially higher for all age groups in patients who are not vaccinated vs those who are. 

The efficacy of the vaccines is most powerfully demonstrated in the randomised controlled trials that were conducted prior to their approval as the trial ensures the participants are matched so that differences in outcome aren't due to difference in the people themselves (imagine if everyone given the vaccine was 80 and those not 18).  You can review the baselines characteristics of the trial population here

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 2021 at 4:44pm
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Back onto the controls here again.
Yesterday’s announcement was another joke and rightly so many people are fuming.
Australia is getting on with life @ 70% plus vaccinated but ours has to “world leading” not just good enough for some semblance of normal life.
I feel sorry for all the businesses affected but more than that is the kids who miss school and their friends.

I thinks time to put the so called experts back in the box and we all get to decide what level of risk management we will have.
If you want to live a level 4,3,2 or whatever the traffic light system rubbish is just go ahead and do it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 2021 at 5:12pm
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Seems wucking simple to me. On December the 1st.NZ is opening up for bussiness .Not vaxed tough!

All AK DHBs to be at 90% another joke as the sector of AK who wont get vaxed just wont get vaxed. 11 in every 100 holding us to ransom and to all to encourage those not vaxed to get vaxed??

Got wondering is that certain group of unvaxed holding off till treaty claims settled??
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 2021 at 5:21pm
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Auckland as a whole is 89.5% vaccinated at least once. I believe it is.
Manukau 86%
Auckland 93%
North Shore 90%

When Auckland gets there it won’t mean anything on December 1st because it won’t be by then.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2021 at 5:57pm
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https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/oct/24/fauci-covid-vaccines-children-5-11

Lord Fauci says our kids are good to be jabbed but look at the resistance.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2021 at 6:55pm
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The tragedy is that most of us are playing ball, haven't been able to go to our offices or work places, for many weeks, we are  wearing masks, and even getting double jabbed. The govt is holding the people who want to get back to work to ransom because they still don't get it in NZ. No consequences for those who break the borders, forge papers and just cant be bothered complying with the requirements of the rest of the majority of New Zealanders. There is nooo way the virus should have got to Hamilton, Te Awamutu and now Otorohanga if people had  obeyed the rules. The lame excuse is that Covid has a long tale,,, Come on give us a break. Now the traffic light system,, how in hell is this going to work ?? I know we have all heard the moans and groans of many of us but do you really believe that we are soo immature that we need shows, freebies etc etc to play ball?? Its like watching a soap opera. Confused
Cant beat hunting and Fishing in N.Z
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2021 at 9:13pm
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Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/oct/24/fauci-covid-vaccines-children-5-11

Lord Fauci says our kids are good to be jabbed but look at the resistance.



All the stats say kids rarely get it, even more rare to suffer if they do get it, and almost never die..so why???
There are medical experts all over the world saying woah, this isn't working, but governments push and push..
In my short 53 years I have never seen such a reaction to a vaccine..by medical people.
you can't fix an idiot with duct tape, but it does muffle them for a while...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2021 at 9:31am
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The govt is holding the people who want to get back to work to ransom because they still don't get it in NZ.

Why do ppl blame the messenger and not the cause?
Even thu the government where (like so much stuff that matters) near yr late off the line getting the vaccination program under way (like the passports)..
 The lockdown is due to a small part of our population with head in the sand and will not get vacced.. till too late.
 It is this small portion that has caused the lockdowns to extend, and a smaller proportion of same population to cause further spread northwards and southwards.. often illegal activity, and then the surrounding areas.

Also a great proportion of that population is taking the bulk of the taxpayer marketing and support funding.... 

Thu it doesnt help that along the way the racist card is dragged out in front of the government that a great proportion of this stuck in the mud  population is a seriously at risk to delta and brings up the colonialist introduce deases death tolls of the past.. including Spanish flu .. PRE flu vaccinations.

In effect yes we (NZ as a whole) is being held to ransom, and end of the day the ransom money is another further $129,000,000 paid by the government, of NZers tax money on our behalf to get us out of lockdowns and restriction ASAP.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2021 at 9:50am
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Steps no one is blaming the Govt for Covid, and any of the parties would have struggled with an answer, we acknowledge this, but they are responsible for the truth and the truth unfortunately is distorted.

Realistically none of the political parties has an answer for Covid and all we are doing is stalling the outcome, partially for a good reason because the health system can not cope if everyone gets sick at the same time.

All I'm saying that in my opinion we need to get people back to work, with restrictions obviously, keep the masks on where possible, keep up with vaccines' etc but lets get back to some sort of normality.

if you live in Auckland you have quite a lot of freedom, even though the infection rate is nearly out of control. Hamilton we cant, we have very few covid cases (most are in small towns outside of the immediate area) and yet businesses are struggling and therefore the employees are too. Most of the people I see out and about are complying therefore why not have the same level 3 as Akl ?

Anyway its just an opinion and the opinion of many I might add.

Cant beat hunting and Fishing in N.Z
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2021 at 10:59am
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Fact remains Steps we are well above the average global full vaccination rate in Auckland Even in it’s current mid 70% level. It’s definitely good enough for Australia.

There are loads of businesses now 100% vaccinated among loads of potential customers who should be able to get on with things.

Keep blaming people for what is their choice is not going to do anything but create a divisive society. When faced with potential issues we need solutions not bickering but the government seems hell bent on this divisive path.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2021 at 1:29pm
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Comes back to 3 Auckland DHB having to meet 90%
Break down the numbers , 2 are pretty well there waiting for 2 dose.
And 1.. a area that has several serious places of interest, that also other area can be traced directly and indirectly back to...
That also has a very high covid risk factor due to health and ethicty
And note, home base of brian tamaki just refuses to get vacced, even 1st vacc.
And because of this government has a choice.. either pour more ransom money into these areas, or just go along with Brian tamaki and his "freedom of choice" BS
 In essence boils down to straight darwinism and hope the poor nurses and doctors can cope.... and those inocent ppl who have accidents and normal health issues dont also get very sick and die.

Bottom line those are the choices , unless someone here has nice PC   soln that works to get lockdowns over, get economy and personal freedoms back....


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2021 at 1:38pm
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"Freedom of choice b.s"  You dont believe in freedom of choice..?
So you will be happy to live in a divided country. 
They tried that in germany in the 1930s. Outcome wasnt that good.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2021 at 1:55pm
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What would happen if the closed businesses said up you govt we are opening up on 1st november1000 holiday makers just drive through the check points.

1st of December not vaxed tough you are on your own
Anarchy is the answer .just do it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2021 at 1:59pm
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Again Steps you would probably not believe the amount of unnecessary visits to ED that could be mandated out of society if we took the current social pressure path of the vaccination program.

Take drugs be a social leper.
Alcoholic same boat.
Obese well you ain’t getting a thing.
Let’s mandate against free money while we are at it.

Let’s mandate against all potential bad health and lifestyle choices that cost money and do harm.

This current path need not be this way.
And let’s wait until she says kids can now get jabbed probably next month and see the goal posts shift.
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