Chinese Gospel Boats.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Schampy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Chinese Gospel Boats.
    Posted: 05 Dec 2019 at 8:27pm
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A mate of mine is importing a Stabi replica from china.
Pretty good deal, Its a 2100 landed here on a trailer for about 35k.
From here its fit engine and electronics. Everything else is done, Full paint, upholstery, winch etc.
Its constructed from 5083 alloy, 5 mm hull, exact spec as an nz built boat but half the cost.
Im not sure if hes a totally nuts or a bloody genius. Whats your guys thoughts on this? I have noticed quite a few Chinese boats are popping up on tm lately. Is this the start of things to come? I know the weld quality wont be as good as NZ built machines and re-sale wont be there either. But the cost of 6m plus boats now days is getting frankly stupid. I can totally understand why hes gone ahead and taken the plunge.
Im sure Stabi wont be doing backflips out there boats being copied either. The cost of material and the labour rate must only be a fraction of what we are paying on our shores.
Apart from logo stickers you cant tell em apart.
what are your guys thoughts on this?  Im sure there will be plenty of calls of "chinese rubbish" etc etc. But remember, this is simply a hull built out of the same alloy as we use here. Its not like a Great Wall car that is built out of thousands of inferior parts. Interested to hear your guys thoughts.
cheers.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Keithal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2019 at 8:36pm
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Itll come down to how well the hull is prepped gusseted braced and all over engineered

Not sure how much I'd be trusting it to go 25miles offshore

It could be a bloody good boat but 35k is alot of $$ too when an nz built boat isn't that much more for a similar size alloy hull and trailer package like an f21 frewza
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Fish Addict Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2019 at 8:54pm
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Good luck. The following passage comes to mind.

The Lowest Quote
“It’s unwise to pay too much, but it is worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money – that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot – it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest quote, it is well to add something for the risk you run. And if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better.”
John Ruskin (1819 – 1900).
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote OuttaHere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2019 at 9:52am
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I hope it gets seized and crushed into frying pans at the border.

It's one thing to do a chinese boat "inspired" by designs they have borrowed, bit of a mish-mash of other brands, even some fairly obvious design elements. 

Quite another thing altogether to make an exact copy and then sell it into the same market where the bloody thing was created.

Completely aside from the ethics of it, I would have serious reservations about the materials. Look at all the wonky steel that went into those bridges in the Waikato. I dare say if you went to the chinese factory and said "I want it to be 5083 Alloy" (or whatever) they would go sure, sure, we'll write whatever you want on it. I mean, at the end of the day, how on earth can you trust a company that would do as blatant a rip-off as these boats are to do anything at all ethically? If they have no problem arse-****ing an entire company, do you think they'll hesitate for a moment to shaft an individual as well?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2019 at 10:06am
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Im very much of the thought of Roz above.
 The thing is  is it a illegal copy for one?
2 I would be certainly questioning the quality of the alloy, bracing under decks  that cant see, and the welding under the surface?
2. The thickness of the plate?

Get the thickness and alloy grade wrong and you basically have a disposable alloy boat like all those built and no longer exist from couple decades ago.

Then assuming all thats ok
 Is there going to be a copy write issue down the line?

There are a lot of quality products coming out of china, made under license, and tight QC by the main company.
 (which is different situation /setup to the steel falsification of stds reports mentioned above)
 Is this the case here?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Spear-time Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2019 at 3:20pm
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I am interested in how it pans out, Ive seen another gospel boat up close and the bird **** welds didn't inspire confidence. Hate to see the welds that are hidden.
Id also be wary of the 5083 grade alloy, I think there are different quality materials around as mentioned above.
Cost wise once painted etc does come in a fair bit cheaper than NZ prices, maybe this will give companies in NZ a very good reason to keep quality up and continue improving their product so they stay ahead of the game. Has to be good for the consumer i would think.

life begins where land ends
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote OuttaHere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2019 at 4:02pm
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The doozy is when, 3 years down the track once they've discovered the boat is a dog, some unscrupulous owner gets their signwriter mate to knock up a set of Stabicraft graphics and slaps them on the side of the boat before they sell it. They are, to a non-experts visual inspection, damn near identical boats.

It's no different to someone bringing in fake "Calloway" golf clubs or "luois vuitton" handbags, except that a fake **** boat might just kill someone one day. And just like happens to the fake consumer goods, they should be seized and destroyed by Customs for complete and utter intellectual property infringement.

China can do fake/copied stuff cheap because they don't have to allow for R&D (completely aside from the fact they're paying an unqualified "welder" $4 a day and the aluminium is definitely maybe possibly something resembling what they tell you it is). But this means they don't cultivate any R&D capability. So when they drive the creators of the original IP out of business by undercutting them, nobody is innovating, you just get stuck with the chinese version. This is categorically not good for the consumer.

If Stabicraft for some crazy reason decided to move manufacturing to China, that's a different kettle of fish. They would have quality control, and the whole R&D innovation thing wouldn't stop.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pompey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2019 at 4:46pm
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Recently I purchased a 6m Alloy pontoon boat brand new. Not a Stabi but a brand with decent market share. The owner of that company told me that 35% of the hull price was materials, the rest was labour, overheads and off course some profit.
Not all the boat is 5083, only the hull. The rest is marine grade alloy, there is a big difference. Most boats are constructed like this I,m told. Even with my new boat there were a number of details that required remedial work sfter I took possession. They maker had no issue attending to these and doing a couple of extras. This would not happen from the Chinese builder. I would take with a grain of salt any spec's provided on the Gospel.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote sposman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2019 at 8:48pm
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I agree with Keithal, a Frewza F21 is $35k, they are high quality boats, awesome people to deal with, they stand by their boats
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Big -Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2019 at 8:20am
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I can see this from both sides.
I don't know how much the price difference is between the boats, the genuine and the copy.. But for some it is the only way they can afford to get out on the water.

I don't like buying big ticket items sight unseen, and I don't like seeing large dollops of cash disappearing out of the country. We are screwing or economy up.

I don't like that the comes see fit to barely ignore copyright laws, and do as they do. I could almost guarantee though, that there was a new Zealand person who instigated this move thinking here is a way I can make a few dollars. If so, he is a traitor..

While I believe in the freedom to make a product and sell it for a price of your choosing, if the NZ boat industry is pricing boats to high, they are making it attractive for imported copies.
you can't fix an idiot with duct tape, but it does muffle them for a while...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2019 at 9:53am
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if the NZ boat industry is pricing boats to high, they are making it attractive for imported copies.

 I dont think they are..
 The competition is very feice.. just got to look at how low many put the powering options on most brands these days...well below min power ... just to put more hulls on the water on smaller budgets.
 The 'show deals.. which are usually  pre and post deals and if done homework can usually get all yr round..

 And if it wasnt for exports a lot of shops could be closing down...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pompey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2019 at 10:19am
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Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:

if the NZ boat industry is pricing boats to high, they are making it attractive for imported copies.

 I dont think they are..
 The competition is very feice.. just got to look at how low many put the powering options on most brands these days...well below min power ... just to put more hulls on the water on smaller budgets.
 The 'show deals.. which are usually  pre and post deals and if done homework can usually get all yr round..

 And if it wasnt for exports a lot of shops could be closing down...

NZ export quite a few alloy boats. I just read that Profile are going to have their boats manufactured in USA next year. Same quality, must see a decent gap in the US market to set up manufacturing rather than export from here. Obviously can't keep up with demand. I have been told that getting experienced fabricators is very difficult.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote OuttaHere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2019 at 11:24am
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Originally posted by Big -Dave Big -Dave wrote:

I can see this from both sides.
I don't know how much the price difference is between the boats, the genuine and the copy.. But for some it is the only way they can afford to get out on the water.


The difference, by the time you land it here and put an outboard on, isn't really that much maybe $80k vs $110k for the genuine article.

And I don't buy the "its the only way they can afford to get out". If you're in a position to drop $80k on a boat I would be very surprised if you're hard up for cash.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Schampy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2019 at 8:51pm
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Will be interesting to see this thing in the flesh when it arrives in in NZ early jan.
I will put some pics up of it fitted up and out on the water, and yes will show lots of close ups of pidgin **** welds for you lot to get worked up over.
Trust me Im patriotic as they come when it comes to nz built boats ( I have a surpreme boat built by Gerald Henderson being finished off as we speak.... which is pretty much the polar opposite to Gospel boats) But Im just interested to see what can be done on the other side of the world for considerably less cash. Remember, the stabi rip-off is 35k
engine (150 hp ) and electronics another 30k. The one iv looked at on tm are twice that price.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote feeder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2019 at 7:44am
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Another case of kiwi's working their nuts off, putting everything on the line to build up a brand and then getting their hard work ripped off, just makes me want to spew.

The only bar to frequent is the Kawhia Bar
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bounty Hunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2019 at 9:08am
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visually they are so similar to the Stabicrafts that it makes you wonder whether they Chinese crowd somehow got the CNC cutfiles data - perhaps even some sort of computer security breach at some point?
Death - Our community's #1 killer
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2019 at 9:11am
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Another case of kiwi's working their nuts off, putting everything on the line to build up a brand and then getting their hard work ripped off, just makes me want to spew.

This (below ) as no reference personally to feeder or anyone else.. it is a general statement.

I have found over the yrs, espec since the Thatcherism, reganism, Douglas days of free markets and they should determine the markets philosophy....So many of those who believe in that line of thought then in the next breath say something like what Freeder has said....
 Go figure..

 OH and thu Im not a fan of protectionism as per 50s thru Hollyoak thru Muldoon yrs..Im most certainly still of the view we must retain skills and accountability in NZ as Feeder suggests.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote OuttaHere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2019 at 9:16am
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Originally posted by Bounty Hunter Bounty Hunter wrote:

visually they are so similar to the Stabicrafts that it makes you wonder whether they Chinese crowd somehow got the CNC cutfiles data - perhaps even some sort of computer security breach at some point?

I wonder if perhaps they bought a couple of hulls and ground out the welds and unfolded the boats. Cheap R&D.

I wouldn't put some sort of crazy industrial espionage outside the realms of possibility though.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kevin.S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2019 at 9:27am
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On their web site they talk a lot about Australian design for the boats.  It all looks very flash, but then it would -building a flash web site is very easy compared to building a boat.

A general comment on Chinese manufacturing, from my experience, is that it can be very good but can also be very bad.  The companies that I know have had good experiences have been there, spent time there and often have their own quality inspectors permanently in the Chinese factories.  Companies sourcing a cheap supplier online and only dealing by email, I have heard some nightmare stories.  But it's not all bad, over the years we've had a lot of work from re-making tooling that had already been made in China, but was a total disaster, at work.

The thing that would put me off in this instance is that $35k is a lot of money to risk.  All the China stuff is cash upfront, and good luck getting a refund if you don't like what turns up.  I wouldn't spend that kind of money on a boat without a sea trial and knowing there was some back up if anything went wrong.  Just because it looks just like a Stabi doesn't mean it will handle like one. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote reel crayze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2019 at 10:02am
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Why would you support this which is what you are doing when you buy ANY Chinese made product
 
 
 
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