Changing legal ownership of car? Its not REGO

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote FizFisho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Changing legal ownership of car? Its not REGO
    Posted: 09 Jan 2017 at 2:53pm
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Ok Im stumped, I know you can change rego online. But I rang the NZTA and they said registration is not ownership and that they could not advise me what is.

So how do you own a car if changing the rego and buying it doesnt?

The person is selling the car on behalf of a person but I think they are the person who bought the car.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kevin.S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2017 at 2:55pm
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I think you mean this

https://transact.nzta.govt.nz/transactions/NoticeOfAcquisition/entry

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Structfab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2017 at 3:14pm
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you can get change of ownership papers at a Post Office. The Seller should have ownership papers, which also have the documents attached for change of ownership. Otherwise online as per Kevin.S's post.....I've never done it that way

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote FizFisho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2017 at 3:19pm
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Online is ONLY rego not ownership. What a shizer system we have in NZ compared to Aus. Anyone can register your car, then you have to proove they stole it.

Trust me I just rang them. If they have lost the original rego form. Then there is a buyer and seller form. This is proof of ownership I believe, dont quote me. Mr13b i think.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote funandfunction Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2017 at 3:29pm
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I think the only proof of ownership in this country is a signed receipt or invoice from the previous owner.
There are two types of people in the world: those that divide people into two types and those that don't.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Kevin.S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2017 at 3:36pm
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Originally posted by FizFisho FizFisho wrote:

Online is ONLY rego not ownership. 

No, the link I gave you is to change ownership of a vehicle.  I've done several ownership changes this way.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Structfab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2017 at 4:04pm
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Originally posted by funandfunction funandfunction wrote:

I think the only proof of ownership in this country is a signed receipt or invoice from the previous owner.
nope....all fines,speeding tickets,rego notices,etc will all go to the previous owner if that's all you do. Both seller and buyer need to complete change of ownership online, or at P.O.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote OuttaHere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2017 at 4:40pm
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Originally posted by Structfab Structfab wrote:

Originally posted by funandfunction funandfunction wrote:

I think the only proof of ownership in this country is a signed receipt or invoice from the previous owner.
nope....all fines,speeding tickets,rego notices,etc will all go to the previous owner if that's all you do. Both seller and buyer need to complete change of ownership online, or at P.O.

Kinda amazingly, only the buyer has to do it. I've sold a couple of vehicles recently and they are definitely under the buyers name, only after they did their bit.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Structfab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2017 at 4:47pm
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Originally posted by Rozboon Rozboon wrote:

Originally posted by Structfab Structfab wrote:

Originally posted by funandfunction funandfunction wrote:

I think the only proof of ownership in this country is a signed receipt or invoice from the previous owner.
nope....all fines,speeding tickets,rego notices,etc will all go to the previous owner if that's all you do. Both seller and buyer need to complete change of ownership online, or at P.O.

Kinda amazingly, only the buyer has to do it. I've sold a couple of vehicles recently and they are definitely under the buyers name, only after they did their bit.
ok, use to be both, but that was a while ago now.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote FizFisho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2017 at 5:05pm
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RIng them if you guys dont believe me, that form is CHANGE OF REGISTERED PERSON.

You are meant to keep reg cert, it has the bill of sale on it, you dont post that in anymore but I believe that serves as proof of sale by owner, dont quote me.

Also and MR13a form may do the same, again not sure.

Im seeking legal advice, but yes my belief is a small contract of sale should suffice?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote v8-coupe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2017 at 5:42pm
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Yep. Registration is not proof of ownership. I have been told that also. It only serves to prove the vehicle is licenced to be on the road. That is all. In the olden days you had to have "ownership papers". These seem to have gone by the wayside. We purchased a brand new Swift and all we recieved was a certificate of registration. No ownership papers.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MarkE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2017 at 5:50pm
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^ Correct. Ownership papers don't exist anymore.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2017 at 6:09pm
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I think the only proof of ownership in this country is a signed receipt or invoice from the previous owner.

 
Correct.... The proof of ownership is Bill of Sale....
 And Bill of Sale is basically your receipt.. no different to getting the receipt when buying your groceries.. which also Pr\oves you are the legal owner.
For the contract to be legal.. without going to further legal requirements (deeds etc).. the contract requires consideration.. consideration  is the passing of things between the parties.. ie  the car in exchange for money.
 And the bill of sale is proof of that contract taking place
  Car Registration has always only been registration .. form the day cars where 1st required to be registered to drive on tracks..
On the original registration papers of old vintage cars... which in the fine print down the bottom says that registration is not proof of ownership.
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brought a new car couple months ago never filled in any forms (brought out of the south island sight unseen)  got a letter from nzta the other day saying i could change ownership/registration on line  all done and all good.....but yes they are not actually ownership papers but rather registration papers of someone that has a financial interest in the vechile ( is the correct term from years ago)
i just want to go fishing..........amd ignore all my adult problems
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sold a trailer recently and just notified nzta of new owner,quite simple realy no need to go to post shop

Protect yourself

Wait for the buyer to show you proof that they’ve notified us that they've bought the vehicle before handing over the vehicle.

Get the buyer to do it online while you are there, or get them to show you an email confirmation or receipt. 

transact.nzta.govt.nz/transactions/NoticeOfDisposal/entry

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote malcolmdaniel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2024 at 2:30pm
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This is a hot topic for me and my case is probably unique

I am writing a civil litigation currently against the police for failing to report 3 vehicles stolen. The police did not accept i the human was the owner not the registered person .

To explain ; as i do not have a drivers license i use a holding company (a legal person) i set up, to register the vehicles in. 


For most people who use birth certificate (which says at the bottom not proof of person presenting it) to get  a drivers license and use that to register car it in their name - so for all purposes thats one and the same ;the human and the birth certificate and the registered person . But even buyer isnt always the owner ie if they gift it eg as a mum can buy for their son. In my case i was the buyer but not the registered person. 

When you buy a car the seller used to fill out a MR13A form and post it to NZTA (not sure if thats still done)
And the new registered person or buyer fills out the MR13B form   which says "Change of Registered Person - Buyer" on the top.

Anybody can fill out a MR3B form including someone who steals your car . Then you have to prove you own it.  So the word buyer is also incorrect on the form . Which is what happened in my case. Because police are wedded to the idea that the registered person is the owner and so are MOJ bailiffs.

Which is ironic because the very reason I had the trouble,  started in 2012  in one of the traffic stops that caused me to loose my legal persons licence (i got 100+ demerit points for unlicensed car) a cop asked if i was the owner and i said something like "yes and dont bother me trying prove it , its in a company name , its not stolen which you can check "


But thats not true registered person is registered owner- NZTA website (  as pointed out ) say that the registered person is the responsible person and what that is (fines , mvl, wof etc . notify if sold) and its not necessarily same as legal owner.

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/vehicles/how-the-motor-vehicle-register-affects-you/your-responsibilities-as-the-registered-person/

Theres no current specific legislation on ownership as far as i can tell  - the closest is ;
https://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2011/0079/latest/DLM2938301.html

If you type owner in the search you can find references to ownership but nothing about registered person being the owner.

Your contract of sale and purchase is your only real legal and lawful method of proving ownership.
Theres also an axiom that possession is 9/10 of the law.


Its like 95% of people confuse this registration of vehicle ( set of number plates on a register permanently fixed to vehicle) with motor vehicle license (which is govt letting you use it on the road but basically a tax for ACC and gets you a small plastic label with an end date for windscreen ). One reason people are confused is  MVL label  also has the registration number on it but it predominantly has the license expiry date in much bigger numbers on it. 
Structfab above is one of those that confuse it.

WHEN BUYNG  youre  worried that the human selling you that car is legally entilted to as is owner and legal possession . Ive bought  lots vehicles over years and never had a problem with seller not being being entitled to sell vehicle-its rare but does happen- 
Youre checking 
1) if they havent stolen it and trying to sell it . Check carjam for that it tells you if its reported stolen .
https://www.carjam.co.nz/

2) Its not a family member or friends whose got hold of it selling it, for reasons of debt or disputed ownership like 2 brothers own car and 1 wants to sell. . But you will run into problems with examples like father buys son car gifts it to him then tries to sell it cause son upset him.  Often parents keep car registered in their name for insurance purposes. You just gota ask questions if its suspect and if not satisfied leave the deal alone. Because if it someone else proves they the owner I assume the car goes back to them as if stolen , thou i also assume the process is more drawn out 

Check  with NZTA (you need driver license or other id whatever that is) to confirm registered person is seller. If not ask questions. 

https://transact.nzta.govt.nz/transactions/ConfirmRegisteredPerson/entry

If  it is in a company name check sellers connection with company and if dodge visit the company. 

I would say kevin and outtahere are both wrong  on this -youre still talking registered person as far as i can tell theres no registered owner or recorded owner anywhere.

Its not clear initially but theres no information to contra this . Im not sure if its vague deliberately or not but if you want to know for sure do a OIA request to NZTA, police or other relevant govt department -someone must know

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote malcolmdaniel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2024 at 8:14pm
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Fair enough, I was thinking you were a bot and I've hidden my post.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote malcolmdaniel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2024 at 4:00pm
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Heck no not a bot .
Apologies I did not reply as i wasnt sure who you were messaging , as you didnt reference my name or post.

Can you delete my post and i will repost with more info
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Originally posted by malcolmdaniel malcolmdaniel wrote:

Heck no not a bot .
Apologies I did not reply as i wasnt sure who you were messaging , as you didnt reference my name or post.

Can you delete my post and i will repost with more info

Nah it's all good, post away!
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