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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MightyBoosh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2017 at 11:20am
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Maybe Rainbow was fishing for a bite!

A good soft bait fisherman will catch more than a bad bait fisherman. The reverse is also true. I'm terrible at bait fishing and can't remember the last time I did any bait fishing for snapper. I think it comes down to what you enjoy doing. If fish in the chilly bin is the overall goal, then the guy who is good at both is going to come out on top.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote piwikiwi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2017 at 11:25am
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It is interesting though why softbaiting doesnt work well in Taranaki . Are the conditions/fish the reason ?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2017 at 11:40am
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Drag a couple of big grubs along on the naki I bet they will work
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Potty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2017 at 6:56pm
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Originally posted by piwikiwi piwikiwi wrote:

It is interesting though why softbaiting doesnt work well in Taranaki . Are the conditions/fish the reason ?


Softies still work out west, the trick is to fish in close around structure which can be scary on that coast.

Visibility isn't that good so go to colours on the east coast (natural for me) aren't as effective.

Nuke chook works well.

Love fishing, love my job. It's a bloody shame that they clash.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2017 at 8:58pm
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I am definitely not fishing for a bite.     However, since I am mainly fishing for food it makes sense to me to use the most productive methods regardless what that is.    I have long been convinced that scent is a powerful trigger and adding scent can only improve a lure's appeal and for that matter the opposite will also be the case.    You can all rest assured that if there is a new innovation that is better than what we have already got I would be an early adopter.    I did not say that Softies don't catch fish.   My question was how many fish get visually attracted to a dancing unscented softbait but choose not to bite?    If you want to find out stick a tine bit of squid onto the hook and take note of the increased hits.    What you will also find is once the snapper have picked off the squid the hits are far fewer.

I don't think closing the narrow gape between the softie and the protruding hook with a piece of squid was such a good idea so did another experiment on my last trip to the Coro.   I used a electric somethingorother Zman grub and secured it with bait elastic to a 1/2once jig head.   About a foot or so above it I tied in a dropper on a small 4 way (that's right 4 way) swivel with a 3/0 circle hook which was baited with a small piece of squid.    The whole set was fished exactly like a softbait.    Broken down I used the jig head as a sinker, the softbait as a visual attractant and the squid as the killer.    My theory was proved as in one session I caught 20 snapper 18 of which were hooked on the squid and the two that were hooked on the softbait were hooked as a double when one was already on the circle.    By the way
this was done in normal drift fishing and not under a workup.    Personally I could not give a continental about people's choices of fishing methods.    Use what you like. For all I care some of you might even enjoy catching fewer fish.    Come to think of it I have yet to meet such a person.

Rainbow

PS on that trip I caught well over 100 fish and used only 1 ZMan while the second one was still usable when we left for home.
I think you can figure out what that means??????
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Potty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 8:09am
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Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:

LOL Oh jeez Rainbow I thought you were over yourself by now.  


100% agree with Rainbow that you will catch more fist on bait. Personally I stick to soft baits because I'm not interested in catching baby snaps.
Love fishing, love my job. It's a bloody shame that they clash.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Nako Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 8:28am
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Disappointed to read your disparaging remark Muppet about Rainbow who should be free to share comments without criticism about the techniques that he has found successful. Surely this forum is all about fishos sharing their knowledge and experiences which we can all learn from and try out if want to. I have learnt alot from Rainbow about fishing in the Naki where I live and I'm grateful that he and other experienced fishos are willing to share their knowledge.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote coroben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 9:12am
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Originally posted by Nako Nako wrote:

Disappointed to read your disparaging remark Muppet about Rainbow who should be free to share comments without criticism about the techniques that he has found successful. Surely this forum is all about fishos sharing their knowledge and experiences which we can all learn from and try out if want to. I have learnt alot from Rainbow about fishing in the Naki where I live and I'm grateful that he and other experienced fishos are willing to share their knowledge.

I think it more in reference to Rainbow saying bait is better in Soft Bait sub forum...

Most people know bait gets more bites, but there is a plethora or reasons to why a lot of people only use lures.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Uncle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 9:48am
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Originally posted by Nako Nako wrote:

Disappointed to read your disparaging remark Muppet about Rainbow who should be free to share comments without criticism about the techniques that he has found successful. Surely this forum is all about fishos sharing their knowledge and experiences which we can all learn from and try out if want to. I have learnt alot from Rainbow about fishing in the Naki where I live and I'm grateful that he and other experienced fishos are willing to share their knowledge.
 
Yes, dead right Nako.
Muppets contribution was below the belt......
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 10:29am
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Most people know bait gets more bites, but there is a plethora or reasons to why a lot of people only use lures.

 
This allures to the persepction of many who fish off our and other boats..
 The bait gets tap tapped tapped... they are saying  "come take it"
 
What is really happening down there in most cases is there are far more than 1 fish...usually a few bait fish tapping away.. then , attracted by their activity, the smaller school, snapper type fish come along.. give a few tugs...maybe gut hook...if not a couple bigger snaps come along, check it out.. well the remains of the bait, pick it up , swim away and swallow it.
Next time out, actually have a look at the remains of the bait the bigger fish has been caught on... watch the under water shots on TV programs

Fish a well set bait on a stray line with fixed keeper, as would a s bait....it gets hit in a very similar manner to a S bait that is being deployed at the same time.

 
comment above about dropping a S bait and bait on the same line... messed with that not long ago...couple member here where out with us that day.. Could tell the s bait got nibbled at, but it was the bait that got the fish every time.
 That doesnt make bait more effective at all.
 Up to that point, the bin was pretty full, caught pretty much even on baits and soft baits.. but the baits did bring in more under sized fish....which I think is due more to the lure size / length compared to bait....baits hung tidy. hook size matches bait size, on fixed keeper stray line hooks in similar manner to a s bait, catch far less under sized fish.
In saying that

 Any way corker weather window tomorrow....heading out again...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 11:17am
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I don't want covert anybody to bait and berley fishing.    The point I want to make is that to exclude scent in your armoury is a self-imposed handicap.    Without doubt the best source of scent comes from the natural food that fish are accustomed to eat.    Evolution has given them an incredible ability to receive and recognise minute traces of this tantalising matter. Apart from those that believe that unscented softbaits work just as well as scented ones it seems to me that the only difference between smearing a dollop of Secret Source or some other expensive commercial scent product on a soft bait or impaling a tiny sliver of squid is purely philosophical.    In my opinion Gulp has the best scented softbaits but even they can be made more attractive with a sliver of natural food.    It goes without saying that if you have not done such an experiment then you are not really in a position to voice a critical opinion.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 11:35am
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Steps    I did not hang or drag my gear from the kayak I actively fished it just like a single softbait.    Totally agree that soaking bait from an anchored boat will catch a lot of small snapper especially in the high recruitment environment of the Hauraki Gulf.    

BTW because the gear was under constant contact as is usual with softies the circle hook did what a circle hook is meant to do it rolled and hooked in the jaw as soon as there was any resistance.     I also have straylined with circles and have had plenty of big snapper gut hooked on a mildly slack line.    

Rainbow
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 12:00pm
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Guys please reread rainbows post about being ahead on any new technique developed in fishing and then how he is on the ball with all of them. My basic point being he probably is not up to speed on new techniques because even though a lot of us are having great success with all manners of softbaits & especially new slow jigging methods without going anywhere near bait or scent for that matter he seems to have a hard time accepting this. We all know bait catches fish but you 100 percent don't need to take any stinky stuff out to catch them.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 12:25pm
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Originally posted by Uncle Uncle wrote:

Originally posted by Nako Nako wrote:

Disappointed to read your disparaging remark Muppet about Rainbow who should be free to share comments without criticism about the techniques that he has found successful. Surely this forum is all about fishos sharing their knowledge and experiences which we can all learn from and try out if want to. I have learnt alot from Rainbow about fishing in the Naki where I live and I'm grateful that he and other experienced fishos are willing to share their knowledge.
 
Yes, dead right Nako.
Muppets contribution was below the belt......

I will delete my comment Uncle, Rainbow no disrespect truly but really you should start a new thread about your results of new technique instead of jumping in here if you believe in it so much.  

The thread was about the poor quality control of expensive Gulp baits originally then somehow morphed into sort of beer vs cider then oh bait is better than softbait LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kandrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 1:08pm
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Yep I'm a bit confused with this too. I might be wrong but to me softbaiting and bait fishing are two completely different things. Lure fishing is a perdatory reaction, that makes the fish grab the imitation of a bait fish - the lure. Same as fresh water fly fishing, its all about imitation and presentation. Match the hatch.

Bait and burley fishing is all about the smell, that's why oilier baits works better. Yep there is presentation to think about because you don't want your bait looking like crap. I have caught large snapper on bait and burley and the same on softbaits. I catch on average larger fish on soft bait and like because it's clean no mess and I enjoy the active fishing a lot like fly fishing. I fish mainly the cast forward of the drift and I like to fish the wash. I have played around with drop and drag and cast out the back with a slow retrieval. Works fine but I have noticed a lot of small bites and smaller fish.

So here's a question for all you guys, is fishing softbaits in a burley trail or when your bait fishing, baitfishing or softbaiting?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote piwikiwi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 5:05pm
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Originally posted by Potty Potty wrote:

Originally posted by piwikiwi piwikiwi wrote:

It is interesting though why softbaiting doesnt work well in Taranaki . Are the conditions/fish the reason ?


Softies still work out west, the trick is to fish in close around structure which can be scary on that coast.

Visibility isn't that good so go to colours on the east coast (natural for me) aren't as effective.

Nuke chook works well.


Good info Potty murky water could be a factor. Ive used Zmans with no sauce for years and they still produce well for me.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 6:02pm
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Piwi I don't know about other parts of the West Coast but in Taranaki there are never any snapper under Kw work ups and as far as I have seen very few big congregations of snapper .    I have just clocked up over a thousand km on my 3 year old chart plotter chasing tuna.   On these trips I always have the sounder locked on the bottom to see what is around and waypoint any structure I come across so have a good idea of what's what down there.    While gurnard seem to graze in small bands they are still thinly spread out.   There is plenty of clear water when the swell settles and fishing is possible.   From now on murky water produces spikeys and red cod.     A lot of the big snapper are caught by stealthy kayakers stray lining, often in water as shallow as 2m.    Overall our conditions favour a strategy to let fish find us rather than we trying to find fish.   

Rainbow
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Potty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 8:04pm
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Originally posted by piwikiwi piwikiwi wrote:

Originally posted by Potty Potty wrote:

Originally posted by piwikiwi piwikiwi wrote:

It is interesting though why softbaiting doesnt work well in Taranaki . Are the conditions/fish the reason ?


Softies still work out west, the trick is to fish in close around structure which can be scary on that coast.

Visibility isn't that good so go to colours on the east coast (natural for me) aren't as effective.

Nuke chook works well.



Good info Potty murky water could be a factor. Ive used Zmans with no sauce for years and they still produce well for me.





That west coast soft baiting can be mind blowing, watching decent snaps surface hit softies isn't something you see often.
Love fishing, love my job. It's a bloody shame that they clash.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote PJay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2017 at 10:17am
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Though my softbaiting on the NI west coast is almost only from Awakino north, and has been from the kayak on calm days in close to shoreline structure, I've found softies to be real weapons there as well as elsewhere.
 
(I have a brother-in-law whose farm on the Waikato coast has one long boundary that is the sea.)
 
I've not performed Rainbow's exact experiment, but what I have done whilst straylining for snapper is explore the top layers of water with softbaits cast down the burley trail.
 
It works OK, though I do tend to catch fish averaging a bit bigger than on strayline, I suspect because they're quicker to dash up higher in the water column after a confused prey fish.
 
Conclusion: west coast, east coast, similar territory, ho hum same same - except it's easier to catch bigger snapper on the west.
PJ
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