Auckland's Hauraki Gulf in dire straits

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    Posted: 25 Sep 2014 at 6:49pm
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Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing
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Money for nothing and your fish for free?
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Unfortunately, this is nothing that we don't know. The pressure due to the large growth in population in the area, commercial fisheries and conseqent effects and pollution are having the expected results. Won't be long before it goes the way of UK inshore decades ago: NZ never learns.

Solutions? Rec only areas, cutting quotas, over-fishing (e.g. Hawke's Bay) punished by losing quota which is returned to the rec quota, whatever - all these need political will, which is not going to occur for some years I feel.

Oh well.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Lethal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2014 at 10:54pm
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yes i feel for the younger generation, it is going to be a long haul before it ever changes...
Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote mowerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2014 at 11:14pm
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we have said it all before..no one really listens ( MPI or Gov )...

Around 12,450 bottom trawls took place on the gulf between 2011 and 2013.>> now increasing amounts of small fish up to 5 yrs old ,Older mature breeders on the decline ..gene pool now favours smaller fish

There were more than 27,000 commercial scallop dredge tows between 2010 and 2012.>> No scallops left

Intense farming around the Hauraki region - which includes both Auckland and the Coromandel - and nitrogen levels in rivers are already high and predicted to increase.

There have been high levels of copper, lead and mercury recorded in Auckland estuaries and the Firth of Thames

No wonder the place is going backwards..mussels must be good for you with copper, lead and mercury
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Lethal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2014 at 12:10am
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Obama to create world’s largest protected marine reserve in Pacific Ocean,

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obama-to-create-worlds-largest-protected-marine-reserve-in-pacific-ocean/2014/09/24/e2ecaab4-433e-11e4-b47c-f5889e061e5f_story.html


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/06/17/why-is-obama-protecting-a-place-youve-never-heard-of-we-explain/


from almost 87,000 square miles to more than 490,000 square miles, Obama has protected more acres of federal land and sea by executive power than any other president in at least 50 years and makes the area off-limits to commercial fishing.

i guess this is one way of keeping the Chinese out of your backyard..

Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote hookerpuka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2014 at 8:35am
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Originally posted by mowerman mowerman wrote:

we have said it all before..no one really listens ( MPI or Gov )...



 Get off your GOVT bashing coarse MM. The issue is Man kind doesn't learn, not just GOVT. You like them (comms) aren't willing to sacrifice your quota either to improve the situation, until everyone works together instead of pointing fingers at who's to blame nothing will ever change. and the same goes for land clean up, the mighty dollar and mans greed are pretty much the issue. I bet bartering was so much more fun as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote mowerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2014 at 8:52am
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Originally posted by hookerpuka hookerpuka wrote:

Originally posted by mowerman mowerman wrote:

we have said it all before..no one really listens ( MPI or Gov )...




 Get off your GOVT bashing coarse MM. The issue is Man kind doesn't learn, not just GOVT. You like them (comms) aren't willing to sacrifice your quota either to improve the situation, until everyone works together instead of pointing fingers at who's to blame nothing will ever change. and the same goes for land clean up, the mighty dollar and mans greed are pretty much the issue. I bet bartering was so much more fun as well.


Sorry hookerpuka..but that where all the blame sits ..they allow it to happen and keep letting it happen..I think where it is now is there is a slow shift coming from groups like seachange,some of that will be good some not.
I will always put the blame where it is and point it directly to those responsible ..no eyes or foresight by those who refuse to adapt and change there ways until its forced upon them...Its constant pressure by some that bring changes

Yes man kind is blind, those in charge should open their eyes ,but they don't ..that's why pressure is applied , some stand up against all this GREED and destruction , MM being one of them
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2014 at 9:00am
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Governments are there to protect from unscrupulous individuals and companies
That is how "man kind" protects.. or suppost to.
Companies by law are required to maximise returns back to the shareholders within the law...made by governments.

So If we are just to piont the finger at "man kind" then we may as well completely ban All comments re  marine resources in the forums and give up right?

And at the end of the day , when things get too much after inactive governments fail to live up to their regitory responsabilty to its citizens... THEN ta couple citizens START jumping up and down... WHEN a lot join them... after usually backstabbing them for a few yrs... something is done at government level

That is how it works and has worked for a few thousand yrs now

All we need to do is decide where we stand in relationship to our marine resources and decide where we position ourselves in relation to jumping up and down
Some get active, vocal, other donate, other give lip service, other knock all or some of the above as extremists or crack pots.... usually as history judges, wrongfully.

Now Im not in full agreement with MM on how where what to protest at... but definately in full agreement he is on the right track.....and do not knock him for that....

Just a little food for thought
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote hookerpuka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2014 at 9:01am
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So point the finger at everybody, I didn't see Key out here hammering the fish stocks. the people responsible are the people fishing, be it comms or rec, don't be naive thinking the Rec take is small especially around the Hauraki. Beach and boat weekend weighs 13 ton of fish roughly... 1200 anglers  over 2 days. that says something.  on a busy day in the gulf how many people do you think are on the water and what effect do you think that level of take will have? Peoples thinking needs to change on all sides not just Comms. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2014 at 9:06am
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Not talking about fish numbers but on water quality,no doubt the 2 go hand in hand.
Subdivision allowed to take place so sediment and disturbed minerals can run off in to the sea.
more traffic with pollutants going in to waterways and out to sea.
higher population of boat owners,oil,bilge water entering sea plus shipping dumping ballast off coast and who knows what it contains?
under currant by laws in auckland cannot discharge sewage from a vessel within 250/500m of shore?must have a holding tank but where are convenient pump stations?none so out it goes.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Clifftastic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2014 at 9:07am
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I hear you hookerpuka. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote hookerpuka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2014 at 9:29am
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Unfortunately the side effect of growing populations, what law do you put in place to control this though? if you don't build then the house prices sky rocket. then people complain about that. Farming is a huge part of NZ in both economy and way of life, be it dairy or beef, hell even vegetables, how do you fix the unreversible. hell even pine forests have devastating effects on the environment and NZ is half covered in the damned things. 
 For things to return back to how they were pre man, there need to be know man. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2014 at 10:05am
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"So point the finger at everybody"
If u read my post it does.....and over all issues
," I didn't see Key out here hammering the fish stocks. the people responsible are the people fishing,"
1st, I mention GovernmentS  2nd IF key happens to lead the current government then at the end of the day it is HE who allows who to fish for what size how many etc ... or pollute whatever.. at THIS point in time.. and if memory severs me right HE made adjustments that came in last April... NOT the population man kind whatever

" be it comms or rec, don't be naive thinking the Rec take is small especially around the Hauraki. Beach and boat weekend weighs 13 ton of fish roughly... 1200 anglers  over 2 days. that says something.  on a busy day in the gulf how many people do you think are on the water and what effect do you think that level of take will have? Peoples thinking needs to change on all sides not just Comms. "

Naive?  no the reality is if rec fishers do not stand up for what they think is a fair share of the resource they/ we will get none....but it seems that u believe we have a fair share and the coms do also ......otherwise you would also be *****ing about hard fishing... which many of the comms also happen to be doing so as well...

We are very clear where we stand... Rec fishing takes priority over com fishing in harbours and gulfs... same page as Legasea really
What I dont get is where some others stand.....regardless of how mild or extreme their stand is

And lets not forget there is a huge industry based on rec fishing... from retail . wholesale, manufacturing , charters , tourism....

Many of us have seen fishing/ reef conditions etc from the late 50s thru to mid 70s when the resource was in a state of collpse....40 odd yrs on its still no better, arguably worse, and if was not for technology would be worse...
A handful of guys are prepared to get off their butts and be proactive... guys like MM and the legasea guys.. each have their own way, resources to do this....knock either motivation and u knock both

At the end of the day we or our children WILL get the marine resource the deserve/ earnt
And the attidue of too many over the last 50yrs say well will have a collapsed marine resource
Which by coincidence is just what MANKIND has done from your own definition, which it seems that you are quite acceptable with
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote hookerpuka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2014 at 10:22am
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Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:


Naive?  no the reality is if rec fishers do not stand up for what they think is a fair share of the resource they/ we will get none....but it seems that u believe we have a fair share and the coms do also ......otherwise you would also be *****ing about hard fishing... which many of the comms also happen to be doing so as well...



 There lies the issue with fish stocks. Fare share and standing up for there biggest piece of the pie.... that is the issue and the issue is in the thinking. them vs us, we want more they deserve less and that's from both sides. It's a flawed way of thinking from the start. How about we all take less? fish rebuild faster and everything is all G. then you can take more, Just not as much as we used to take. 

 It's easy to point fingers, its harder to swallow our own pill. 
 I have older folks walking in my door telling me about the days gone by and how the commercials have ruined the fishing, how they used to load boats to the gunnel because there were some many out there and then bury them in there gardens because they didn't know what to do with them, Yeah it's all on commercials shoulders huh?. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2014 at 10:44am
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yes the older generation who fished in the 1930s,40s even the 50s can tell you how they would come home after a weekend with 60/70 fish,yes they feed family neighbours
but they were not out weekdays/weekends at every single opportunity,they certainly(according to grandparents)were not fishing same areas week after week.
fishing trips were generally once a month.No doubt both sides have contributed to the state of our fisheries,but dragging nets across large areas of seabed to retrieve net and discover not targeted species or size is a main waste.
I think(stand to be corrected)tutukaka game fish club there is a photo of a morning session out chasing marlin,the photo shows 48 swords sticking up from the ground,now thats a waste from memory 1930s era?someone on here would of seen the photo
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote v8-coupe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2014 at 12:44pm
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Originally posted by hookerpuka hookerpuka wrote:

Unfortunately the side effect of growing populations, what law do you put in place to control this though? if you don't build then the house prices sky rocket. then people complain about that. Farming is a huge part of NZ in both economy and way of life, be it dairy or beef, hell even vegetables, how do you fix the unreversible. hell even pine forests have devastating effects on the environment and NZ is half covered in the damned things. 
 For things to return back to how they were pre man, there need to be know man. 


Absolutely. there should be a moratorium on breeding. That is a fact. The problem is capitalism needs an ever increasing population to survive. That is why our goods no longer last 15 - 20 years. Planned obsolescence is in built to force people to by more. The bigger the population the more sales. Whether they need the items or not. I know it sounds cruel and will probably get my head ripped off. However people who can not support themselves, let alone children, should not be allowed to have children. To me that is child abuse. The world needs less people. Not more. Capitalism needs more people to sell to. Vicious circle. I do have faith however that man will eventually take care of the over population problem by himself. Either by a deliberate act or and act of stupidity. The human race is the equivalent of a virus and mother nature will eventually purge herself. I suspect it will not be pretty which ever way it starts. If Ebola reaches Asia then we will really get an idea of what nature is capable of and just how frail man really is without technology.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote mowerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2014 at 1:18pm
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Originally posted by hookerpuka hookerpuka wrote:

Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:


<t></t><t></t><table ="tableborder"="" align="center" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><t><tr ="msgoddtablerow"="" style="height:200px;min-height:200px;"><td ="msglinedevider"="" valign="top">
   
   
<div ="msg"="">
Naive?  no the reality is if rec fishers do not stand up for what they think is a fair share of the resource they/ we will get none....but it seems that u believe we have a fair share and the coms do also ......otherwise you would also be *****ing about hard fishing... which many of the comms also happen to be doing so as well...



   </td></tr></t></table>


 There lies the issue with fish stocks. Fare share and standing up for there biggest piece of the pie.... that is the issue and the issue is in the thinking. them vs us, we want more they deserve less and that's from both sides. It's a flawed way of thinking from the start. How about we all take less? fish rebuild faster and everything is all G. then you can take more, Just not as much as we used to take. 

 It's easy to point fingers, its harder to swallow our own pill. 
 I have older folks walking in my door telling me about the days gone by and how the commercials have ruined the fishing, how they used to load boats to the gunnel because there were some many out there and then bury them in there gardens because they didn't know what to do with them, Yeah it's all on commercials shoulders huh?. 


Yeah it's all on commercials shoulders huh?. .....

Your dam right..they ruined it for everyone ..KY near fish to extinction being a classic point
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote hookerpuka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2014 at 2:35pm
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Originally posted by mowerman mowerman wrote:

Originally posted by hookerpuka hookerpuka wrote:

Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:


<t></t><t></t><table ="tableborder"="" align="center" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><t><tr ="msgoddtablerow"="" style="height:200px;min-height:200px;"><td ="msglinedevider"="" valign="top">
   
   
<div ="msg"="">
Naive?  no the reality is if rec fishers do not stand up for what they think is a fair share of the resource they/ we will get none....but it seems that u believe we have a fair share and the coms do also ......otherwise you would also be *****ing about hard fishing... which many of the comms also happen to be doing so as well...



   </td></tr></t></table>


 There lies the issue with fish stocks. Fare share and standing up for there biggest piece of the pie.... that is the issue and the issue is in the thinking. them vs us, we want more they deserve less and that's from both sides. It's a flawed way of thinking from the start. How about we all take less? fish rebuild faster and everything is all G. then you can take more, Just not as much as we used to take. 

 It's easy to point fingers, its harder to swallow our own pill. 
 I have older folks walking in my door telling me about the days gone by and how the commercials have ruined the fishing, how they used to load boats to the gunnel because there were some many out there and then bury them in there gardens because they didn't know what to do with them, Yeah it's all on commercials shoulders huh?. 


Yeah it's all on commercials shoulders huh?. .....

Your dam right..they ruined it for everyone ..KY near fish to extinction being a classic point

 Some people really do struggle to see past the peak of there own cap!
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