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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kingiFiddla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 7:42pm
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You know, HY, I'm trying to scare the crap out of myself as safely as I can and somehow learn how to keep a cool head when scared. Got so much room for improvement it isn't funny.

M, that would suck. Couldn't bust the line? Were they side-on or rough conditions? Quick thinking to unleash before letting go or not leashed? Sounds like it could have ended badly if not for some quick thinking.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kingiFiddla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2021 at 11:37am
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Shane, regarding my moonshot, is it crazy to be thinking about braid directly to the leader with no topshot? Do I really need the stretch if I'm in a kayak and using a medium action rod with a bit of flex in the tip?

Perhaps it's more about having the drag of the mono topshot?

Perhaps it's not going to be good for the end 100-200m of braid to be going across the guides so much during a fight?

This is becoming a bit of a rabbit hole. Any help much appreciated.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Telecaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2021 at 1:29pm
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Too early for a gurnard attempt? Thinking Sunday morning off Arkles might be worth a crack on the outgoing...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kingaling Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2021 at 4:04pm
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Sunday looking nice, unfortunately my schedule only allows for a yak trip tomorrow.. Looking a bit windy, was thinking I might head out on the low tide from Sullivans. 

Hopefully I can tuck in out of the wind behind Saddler Pt. 20 knots is up there though, usually I prefer ~10 and under. 

What you guys reckon
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Too windy
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Telecaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2021 at 5:40pm
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Yeah I wouldn’t risk it. Could always soak a bait off a wharf or some rocks?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote shaneg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2021 at 6:34pm
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Originally posted by kingiFiddla kingiFiddla wrote:

Shane, regarding my moonshot, is it crazy to be thinking about braid directly to the leader with no topshot? Do I really need the stretch if I'm in a kayak and using a medium action rod with a bit of flex in the tip?

Perhaps it's more about having the drag of the mono topshot?

Perhaps it's not going to be good for the end 100-200m of braid to be going across the guides so much during a fight?

This is becoming a bit of a rabbit hole. Any help much appreciated.

Could run braid direct to trace or wind on. I have sarogosa 20k with pe 5 and about 4 meters of 120 lb tied to braid with fg, then connect to shorter live bait trace or lure on 200lb for marlin. Ran and snagged bottom with a livie last weekend, proved very hard to break from boat. Was near impossible, and required pressure by hand gloved to break, more pressure than could ever have put over the pe7 rod.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kingiFiddla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2021 at 8:11pm
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Thank you Shane. Is PE5 about 50-70lbs? I ask because I once found 50lb to be a dangerous strength if trying to break it on the kayak. It was tasline elite and I later learned its average breaking  strain was more like 70lbs.

Do you prefer dropping livies under sinkers or does it just depend on where and what you are targeting? Have only tried that twice, out at McGregor with one doughnut and one shark (biiig head shakes) that bricked me before I could get over it but by the weight of it I wasn't too unhappy about that.

When your line finally broke, did it break at a connection or some random part of the braid or leader or?

What do you reckon are going to be the biggest shockload scenarios for the line in my moonshot? Fish jumps and head shakes? Dives deep and lunges down while I'm trying to turn its head upwards? Sees the yak, wakes up and lunges downwards to dive?

I'm trying to work out how much risk it is to not have the mono topshot. Am thinking 40 or 50lb braid FG'd to 10m of 160-200lb mono leader, not going over about 8/9kg drag on a roller tip 15 or 24kg rod. If 24kg, i still want it to have some tip flex.

Am not sure on the reel. A TLD30 2 speed will have  over 1000m of 50lb, which even with the light drag still seems like overkill on a kayak. Do you think so too?

Am I heading in the right direction?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Sanchez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2021 at 9:59pm
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KF if you do firm up your moonshot PM me, I’ll ghost you on my boat to keep you safe. One thing I’d be worried about is getting pulled too far out deep to make it back b4 dark.
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kingiFiddla - you have probably seen this but if not you may find it interesting.  

There is also an article on fishing.net.nz site which discusses marlin tactics from a yak.  Each have different views with respect to preferred rod length which is interesting.
I make the following comments as a non yakker.
As I see it shorter rods are advantageous when you get over the top of the fish but I'm not sure if that is the place you really want to be when hooked up to a marlin in a kayak.  For kingies yes but a marlin isn't trying to brick you.  I think you will be better of fighting the fish from a distance until it tires.  Use the drag / friction of the line in the water to tire it out.
Rod wise I wouldn't be looking for anything that has rollers, keep it simple.
Braid yes, with long leader, I can't see any advantage of using braid line >50lb.  
Reel - good quality lever drag single speed jigging reel.

Just my thoughts.



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote shaneg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2021 at 7:57am
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KF my thoughts would be similar to FA’s above.
TLD 30 is as big as I would go. Pe5 braid is very strong as you say more like 70 pounds than 50 pounds. I’d probably still go pe 5 for abrasion resistance, rather than lighter finer diameter braid. You would get enough pe5 on 20 or 16 size lever drag to potentially consider those. You Will likely want 800 meters of line. Fish will tow you but you are possibly going to find 500 meters leaving reel on first run. You are likely not going to be directly over fish or want to be, hence longer softer rod probably another advantage, longer than 5 foot six possibly more like 5’ 9 or 6 foot. I have a 15 kg Shimano t- curve which  if I was doing it , would be my choice. Has all sic guides even the  tip. Quite soft and absorbent for when fish gets close, plenty enough power for what you would be able to exert from yak.
Fg knots tied well won’t let you down to connect mono short leader 4-5 meters to braid. Then put quality game swivel between that and your bite leader/trace. You shouldn’t  break off with pe4 or 5 , provided you have a decent nylon leader   or even heavier dynena leader (Like Swordfish Steve makes)  to get around abrasion resistance from fish, if becomes wrapped during fight, or tail hits leader while jumping.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kingiFiddla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2021 at 1:09pm
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S, thank you for the offer. Actually, thank you to anyone who has offered to help and given advice. FA, Shane, etc. It means allot to me that anotherMothaBrotha fishos are willing to help. It's such a different endeavour compared to inshore fishing that without help the moonshot won't even get off the ground. So I really do appreciate it. I agree that it's going to need on-water support. The average fight seems to be about 3hrs so I was thinking that I'd probably have to be quite disciplined about calling it quits about 2-3pm each day of any search.

That 16.5lb snapper a while ago was in rather unpleasant conditions on dusk and rather than risk a bar crossing in the dark on the way home I beached the yak instead and carried it to safer water. I vowed to not ever get caught out like that again, trying to learn lessons while they aren't fatal :-)

FA, thanks for that info and no I had not seen that video so learned plenty watching it. Perhaps I shouldn't really settle on a rod until I have bought the new kayak which is way longer than my current lil' weapon, so I can see how difficult it might be to clear the bow if a fish changes direction.

Tele - how do you find that in your Stealth? Especially when playing a larger fish?

FA, if the article you are referring to is the one from limitless, he mentions small rods to keep the leverage down and easier once the fish gets close, and doesn't think clearing the bow or quickly turning the yak when a fish changes course, to be big enough problems to override the need for a smaller rod.

Perhaps the guy in the video you linked to doesn't catch the size of marlin prevalent here so hasn't been beat-up quite so much that he wants to step the rod lengths down a bit.

Not that I think I'll have much choice in the matter but when possible I certainly want to stay the heck away from the fish until it's knackered. I'm prepared for the fact it probably won't be revived - especially given if I ever get into one, it'll be my first and I need to take a cautious approach of a learner. However, just about every kayak fight I've seen involves the fish diving at one or many points in the fight and trying to stay down. That's one of the tricky scenarios where I thought a roller tip might be a worthwhile option, especially on a shortish rod. From what I can tell, that's where guys in the past have pulled hooks trying to turn it's head and it often ends up in a ding-dong battle where line is won and lost for quite some time - meaning lots of times loaded braid is going over the tip guide at what might be one of the most acute angle and loads the line will encounter in the fight. But if guys don't think it's a problem, then I won't bother with roller tips.

Jigging reel would also mean can use it if I ever get to jigging for kings. But, if the fish dives, won't the gear ratio of the reel be a bit too high? Also, are they going to have the line capacity - i thought they were quite narrow. I'll go looking after posting this. I guess they are going to be fairly lightweight though so that's a big plus.

Looks like will be sticking with 50lb and if not will be 40lb braid.

Thank you again Shane. I'll be taking a look at smaller sized reels, and I guess that's where the jig reel suggestion comes into play - at least they will still have more than enough drag compared to being run on the ragged edge of the drag capabilities or not handling the heat of 500m runs.

The T-curve rods, are they the tiagra model? Soft tip but  as much grunt as I can handle (I'm probably the weakest link in the system :-) sounds perfect.

Why the shorter length of mono and swivel and heavy leader, instead of just a longer length of the heavy leader and no swivel? It would certainly be easier to swap bite leaders when sharks nail the livie and bit me off or need to be cut free, if on a swivel clip compared to retying FG knots (but I have gotten pretty good at that when bobbing around in the yak). I will admit though that my hands can shake when I'm fizzing about a fish that got away or the surface is erupting around the yak, and that makes the tying go slower than I'd like ;-)

Are swivels really needed if not towing lures? Do they ever put a fish off hitting the livie? Again, I'm so ignorant of all this because I can only reference my experience chasing Kingis and I don't use swivels at all. I don't like how the livie swims compared to no swivels. Do get some twist but cut the hook free and trail the line on the way home to get the twist out.

Thanks again very much fellas, and sorry for any stoopid questions.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fish Addict Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2021 at 3:46pm
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I don't know what sort of budget you are on but as far as a reel goes I'd be looking at a Talica 16. Capacity 845yds 50lb power pro braid, gear ratio 5.7:1
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Originally posted by kingiFiddla kingiFiddla wrote:


Tele - how do you find that in your Stealth? Especially when playing a larger fish?

Hi, I can't even get an unloaded 7' rod around the front of my kayak so I can't see how you could get a loaded rod around the front of any decent-sized yak.

I haven't had any trouble with large fish changing direction on me, I just use the pressure from the fish to turn the kayak around. I don't think it is worth worrying about.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote shaneg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2021 at 3:48pm
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T-curve revolution not produced now but tiagras rods still are and reasonably soft even the 24 kg model and have reasonable length. Tcurve in photo currently has graphite penn16vs on it, top shorted 300 50 lb braid with 400 of 15 kg mono. Hasn’t caught marlin yet on it, first season. But awesome little combo, and cheap, including braid and mono rod and reel purchased different times, under $500.
Offshore make some game rods that would be suitable and older offshore rods (like one in top photo with tld 25) generally had softish E- glass action and some were longer length which will give you some bow clearance where required and provide bit more of a shock absorber. Diawa VIPs are very soft, bit too soft for my liking, I have caught a marlin off cheaper Diawa. Saltist 24 kg rod few years ago (Rod in photo without reel) with the tld 25 in other photo ) but I think it’s bit short. Nice light rod and action though.

Swivel and snap will give you option of changing bite leader as you say particularly if get sharked, just clip another on. I actually like swivel for livebaiting but seen guys in Cabo catching marlin without them, simply tieing in to their nylon topshot.
 If you use a swivel it will allow you to run heavier bite leader, 200, 250, 300 etc. and lighter top shot leader under it, more manageable less drag in water something under 200lb, like 120, or 150. The reason you need  length heavier trace (say at least few  meters  by hook is that takes punishment from bill with marlin, not mention fins and tails.
I’ve got few lighter rods with smaller reels which have caught marlin on, will put up few picks.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kingiFiddla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2021 at 6:25pm
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FA, thanks for that reel suggestion. I also don't know what budget I've got to play with yet ;-) But having gone looking online, one reel that catches my tight arse attention is the speedmaster 16 II. About 800m of 50lb braid and much more drag than needed for this but might be useful if ever jigging over the top of kings and needing to put some hurt on before everything goes ping. But what makes me a bit nervous about them is the price. They seem way too cheap and maybe won't last? If there's nothing much wrong with them if not abused or pushed too hard, then that might be what I end up with. I note Greg Potter used a speedmaster 16 on his recent stripe marlin. The write-up is here:
https://www.fishing.net.nz/fishing-news/battling-a-billfish-on-a-kayak/

T, thanks for that. Good to know.

Shane, great info, yet again, thanks. I'll grab a few good swivels and swivel clips and get a feel for them as best I can slow trolling livies for kings/sharks. The option of just clipping pre-made bite leaders on when sharked seems sensible. Regarding rods, I can see it now - I'll be sitting on the floor of the store with a rod between my legs while a mate stands on the line from up close and then the far corner of the store, so I can get a really good idea of the rod action.

Does anyone know if there is any kind of gimbal belt suitable for kayak fishos or has anyone used the big foam cushions like this?:
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fish Addict Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2021 at 7:00pm
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Originally posted by kingiFiddla kingiFiddla wrote:

... But having gone looking online, one reel that catches my tight arse attention is the speedmaster 16 II. ... But what makes me a bit nervous about them is the price. They seem way too cheap and maybe won't last? ...

They are without doubt well priced.  There is generally a reason for that.

During my working life we had the following quotation framed and hanging on a wall.  
It's is worth thinking about and has many applications.

The Lowest Quote

“It’s unwise to pay too much, but it is worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money – that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot – it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest quote, it is well to add something for the risk you run. And if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better.”

John Ruskin (1819 – 1900).



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote shaneg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2021 at 9:44pm
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FA and KF I reckon speedmaster would be very reasonable choice, still quite new but shimano ain’t made a bad lever drag yet. And I am an economist, not cheap just love value for money.Wink
Fished aletecnos, tiagras, and everol reels (love Italian reels), and biggest fish l’ve ever caught was on a shimano tynos 50. Actually the 20 tynos would also be very good option come to think of it.
They all work fine if properly looked after. But some those other reels, cost more (money may not be a problem) and but mainly don’t belong on yaks because of weight , which why I’d go graphite... ( or speedmaster rewriting post after some consideration).
Also there is some of new diawa lever drag reels, which is probably truly top end in smaller lighter package for live baiting big fish.
There are jigging reels capable of landing marlin (accurate come to mind, also avets that hate getting wet in saltwater)  but most smaller jigging models lack capacity unless getting heavier duty/ larger.
When KF hooks up that is one of variables he shouldn’t worry about,  having sufficient capacity in reel. Graphite penns (the new ones) or shimano TLDs seem to fit bill. But not saying can’t do on other tackle.
I am not fit enough to do what KF is contemplating and have a boat I like gamefishing from on few days I seem to do now , but fully behind his effort and thinking, love the level of aspiration.

Gimbal question is interesting , I suspect isn’t something suitable , killwell black gimble comes to mind we have one recently purchased on boat for big kings, puka and lighter tackle marlin and tuna but is still designed for standup, so angle may not be right. You don’t want a BM equaliser, that is for sure. Which is what virtually everyone on a NZ trailer boat uses, including me.
I do have an old sea breeze stainless thigh gimbal that you could modify to a belt that would work. Small boat guys fishing marlin seated (mates) in big dinghies, have built their gimbal into their seats, problem with yak with that is your seat won’t swivel.
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Shane don't get me wrong I'm not saying the Speedmaster won't get the job done.  I'm saying there is a reason why the Speedmaster is considerably cheaper than say the Talica 16.  That reason other than the published spec differences may not be apparent to us and I don't expect Shimano to be 100% open about the differences either. Whether you have got value for money only becomes apparent when under the test.  My point being if I had one shot at a marlin off a kayak I'd rather be winding a Talica than a Speedmaster.

I have a healthy collection of Tiagras which replaced the Inters and admit to now being a Shimano fan.  The odd ball in the collection worth mentioning is a Fin nor Marquesa MA16 which is a little gem of a reel and my go to on many occasions.  Fin nor make a 40 two speed and I think a single speed 40? which would have the capacity KF requires. 

The feedback from guys over here on the smaller Talica 2 speeds was not great a few years back.  There were clearly issues with the 2 speed reels that were not being experienced with the single speed reels and it was for that reason why I suggested the Talica single speed model.

KF's enthusiasm is wonderful to see and I hope he gets a shot.

With respect to the gimbal question, like you, I know what won't work.  A bit of the good old Kiwi ingenuity, that we are known for,  should be able to sort that out though.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote shaneg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2021 at 12:01am
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Originally posted by shaneg shaneg wrote:

FA and KF I reckon speedmaster would be very reasonable choice, still quite new but shimano ain’t made a bad lever drag yet. And I am an economist, not cheap just love value for money.Wink
Fished aletecnos, tiagras, and everol reels (love Italian reels), and biggest fish l’ve ever caught was on a shimano tynos 50. Actually the 20 tynos would also be very good option come to think of it.
They all work fine if properly looked after. But some those other reels, cost more (money may not be a problem) and but mainly don’t belong on yaks because of weight , which why I’d go graphite... ( or speedmaster rewriting post after some consideration).
Also there is some of new diawa lever drag reels, which is probably truly top end in smaller lighter package for live baiting big fish.
There are jigging reels capable of landing marlin (accurate come to mind, also avets that hate getting wet in saltwater)  but most smaller jigging models lack capacity unless getting heavier duty/ larger.
When KF hooks up that is one of variables he shouldn’t worry about,  having sufficient capacity in reel. Graphite penns (the new ones) or shimano TLDs seem to fit bill. But not saying can’t do on other tackle.
I am not fit enough to do what KF is contemplating and have a boat I like gamefishing from on few days I seem to do now , but fully behind his effort and thinking, love the level of aspiration.

Gimbal question is interesting , I suspect isn’t something suitable , killwell black gimble comes to mind we have one recently purchased on boat for big kings, puka and lighter tackle marlin and tuna but is still designed for standup, so angle may not be right. You don’t want a BM equaliser, that is for sure. Which is what virtually everyone on a NZ trailer boat uses for larger gamefish, including me.
I do have an old sea breeze stainless thigh gimbal that you could modify to a belt that would work. Small boat guys fishing marlin seated (mates) in big dinghies, have built their gimbal into their seats, problem with yak with that is your seat won’t swivel.
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