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Auckland take Waikato river water?

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    Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 9:59am
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Titanium
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I watch the Waikato River bar several times most days over all tides winds etc.
Going well back to a the calm dry period months (last yr ) the river was dropping and the bar moving, silting up.
 I do not think silting up is just lack of water, but also that huge mass of black sand slowly moving up the coast from Taranaki for the last 100 yrs or so. Its current on Port Waikato and just starting to reach the Manukau entrance.

With the Waikato river low now, due to drought and water being taken off (including Aucklands current quota)  If Auckland gets its rush thru permission to get more doesnt stem well for the Waikato from Tuakau (at least) to Tasman sea.
The silting up of the entrance and the significant change has been very noticeable
Even to the extent The Coast guard and harbour masters have issues warnings that the moveable posts that line up for the entrance can not be moved any further..do not use them.

Then what happens when big rains way inland,  high tides silted entrance from well back inside the bar all come together?
Auckland going to partly cover the Waikatos  flooding costs?

Then there are the greenies who would delay any dredging at the bar...

Bottom line, Auckland now has a unsustainable population, unless it imports water. Water that will eventually needed for 'spillover populations (upper Waikato and central Nth island) 
What then?

But right now Auckland take more water, the Waikato plains, bar, communities will all be at serious risk.. from navigation to flooding.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 10:12am
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Been a dry couple of years for Auckland it will change.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Clifftastic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 10:19am
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Plenty of water in Auckland. We're just not the best at capturing it, managing it and lack resilience when things get tight. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote deacs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 11:23am
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The easy solution is for Auckland to find its own water, my back yard was flooded on the weekend, (I live next to a stream that breaks its banks multiple times a year) plenty of water there, how can they make the most of it? If i read correctly there is a dam that is out of commission that will be re-instated, why on earth does it take us to get to these levels to re-instate it and why was there no forethought on how much water the ever expanding Auckland was going to use?  
Oh then there was the ridiculous cost for people to actually have their own water tank where they could use rain gathered before mains water.....

All this comes down to, just like the roads, is horrendous planning by our councils and them forever wanting to make a $ 

Will this change? likely not.....
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote formtool Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 11:48am
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Auckland only takes less then 0.5% of the water flow from the Waikato. If we only took 50%  more would still be far less than 1%. Sorry I don't see any problem.
Sounds like two kids fighting over a toy each saying this is mine.
Fun fact, it would only take 38.5 days of Waikato river flow to cover everyone in NZ's water personal usage for a year. Yet we just let it go out to sea?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MightyBoosh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 11:55am
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Auckland is unsustainable full stop.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Got-ya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 12:17pm
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Next flood we get and the bar opens up. Its not the first time what you describe Steps, and it won't be the last. Its got nothing to do with Auckland extraction. As has been said the amount drawn off by Auckland is stuff all. Hell the tide backs up that far at times (not saying the salt does but current def goes upstream).
The lack of sand extraction at Mercer, Tuakau, and the Elbow will have a much higher impact on the river bursting its banks in another flood like in 1998 than a silted up bar. This also effects the bar as without that sand being removed further upstream more is deposted at a faster rate at the bar.
THERE ARE TWO KINDS OF FISHERMAN, THOSE WHO FISH FOR SPORT AND THOSE THAT CATCH SOMETHING.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Clifftastic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 1:21pm
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We extract sand with the dredge out front of our Pukekawa Quarry. Currently consented to take 200,000m3/yr. We dont even make a dent and rarely move the dredge at all.

As you say Got-ya, taking sand up at the Elbow is needed.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Big -Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 5:34pm
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I can't believe that this hasn't been sorted..all for a permit?
And if the permit system is so far behind, someone need a rocket up their exhaust..
It's not even a permanent problem, it's only drought induced..
you can't fix an idiot with duct tape, but it does muffle them for a while...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2020 at 6:41pm
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Yeah I agree with Got-Ya also. the moving/building/changing river bar has done that as long as I've been i the area.
Best gurnard fisherman in my street
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2020 at 9:18am
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Titanium
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Auckland only takes less then 0.5%

0.5% of what?  full flow or drought flow?
 The politians etc can pull number to suit what they want.
 That will not be 0.5% of 'drought flow'  then add the extra on.

Yes the bar has moved since when the Waikato bar moved from the Firth on the east coast to the port on the west..
Also add the bulk move of the iron sands up the coast nth..
But when has it moved so far the guide poles cant be moved further, and got so shallow?

As to the drought being "permanent"  Seems climate change, if exists, or something is making several drought a regular item in the last few decades... and getting longer and dryer.


If i read correctly there is a dam that is out of commission that will be re-instated, why on earth does it take us to get to these levels to re-instate it and why was there no forethought on how much water the ever expanding Auckland was going to use?  
Oh then there was the ridiculous cost for people to actually have their own water tank where they could use rain gathered before mains water.....

So many cities around the world water capture tanks are  mandatory  for buildings.
Auckland its pretty mandatory now to have storm water tanks to hold , fill  going into the system and out to sea. And what is in the tank drain into the ground..
Yet will charge extra if this water is used for other things.

Regardless is Auckland taking the easy way, because watercare have not thought thru long term?
And think that thru.. Auckland takes Waikato water, gets around to sort its own dams and tanks out.. still take Waikato water... then once again in the near future 10 or 15 yrs want to take more ... in the mean time The Waikato  has grown ....
 Throw all this into the pot, long term, and where does that leave our children and grandchildren from Taupo thru to Albany in 30yrs?
 The waikato becomes a trickle, a stream....Bar and lower river silts up...

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Clifftastic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2020 at 10:16am
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Watercare think long-term Steps. They have a strategy and I think we have just witnessed a great poker hand play out. Watercare, 100th in the queue....jumped right to the front with a "water crisis...." Remember how long it took for water restrictions to come into force.......Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Got-ya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2020 at 10:51am
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Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:


Regardless is Auckland taking the easy way, because watercare have not thought thru long term?
And think that thru.. Auckland takes Waikato water, gets around to sort its own dams and tanks out.. still take Waikato water... then once again in the near future 10 or 15 yrs want to take more ... in the mean time The Waikato  has grown ....
 Throw all this into the pot, long term, and where does that leave our children and grandchildren from Taupo thru to Albany in 30yrs?
 The waikato becomes a trickle, a stream....Bar and lower river silts up...

 
While I have some sympathy with your first part about watercare not thinking long term. I tried to explain why the last of what you have said is frankly sensationlist rubbish. The water intake for Auckland is between the Tuakau bridge and Mercer which is basically a hop step and jump from the river mouth. This means every one up stream towards Taupo has already had their cut long before Auckland. There is just no way at the Auckland intake they could pump enough to reduce the river to a trickle in a part of the river that rises and falls with the tide anyway.
 
This link shows the flow rate just upstream at Mercer.
 
 
It is possable to see the effect of the tide in this graph. See the flow rate?
 
As I have said and others have supported, the lack of sand extraction is a much bigger long term problem than any Auckland water take. You were not around Waiuku when we had the last big Waikato drought. The river bar was breaking right across even on a calm day and was closed to navigation.
I repeat, this is not the first time and has nothing to do with Auckland water.
 
THERE ARE TWO KINDS OF FISHERMAN, THOSE WHO FISH FOR SPORT AND THOSE THAT CATCH SOMETHING.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote whippersnappyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2020 at 12:52pm
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I didn’t know much about this so did some research.  As much as we love to bash watercare they have posted some impressive results with their Auckland efficiency strategy since 2008.

Auckland has the lowest residential water use per capita in New Zealand. Water is a National not a regional resource.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote rockz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2020 at 1:06pm
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Originally posted by whippersnappyr whippersnappyr wrote:

I didn’t know much about this so did some research.  As much as we love to bash watercare they have posted some impressive results with their Auckland efficiency strategy since 2008.

Auckland has the lowest residential water use per capita in New Zealand. Water is a National not a regional resource.



Exactly, the water comes from they sky - I can't see how the Waikato, or anyone, can claim it as their own.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2020 at 1:50pm
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Still wonder why watercare didnt put restrictions on over summer,must have known back then we would enter a crisis.
SAVE WATER shower with a FRIEND.not too friendly can still get PREGNANT in the shower.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote CrayZfish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2020 at 2:55pm
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[QUOTE=whippersnappyr] Auckland has the lowest residential water use per capita in New Zealand. Water is a National not a regional resource.
 
 
I wonder if rural users are considered in the "per capita" calculations.
We use water, none of which is supplied or managed by watercare, but as a resident of Auckland, i wonder if we are included?? If so that would bring down the average an awfull lot??

Why choose either diving or fishing when you can do both. Besides crayfish tail is very good bait!!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote formtool Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2020 at 6:14pm
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looking at the size of the Waikato region, its huge. So if Auckland just moves a little bit past Tuakau and just over the Waikato river there, we can say we are only taking our water. Sure the Waikato region wont notice a little bit missing. Sorry for people in Tuakau.   
Just joking. But sadly what has happened is the same with the health service, everyone only looking out for themselves and not willing to share with the whole country if you can. Thought we had one government but seems we only look after ourselves in our own regions and bugger off if your not in it.    
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Muzzfishing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2020 at 7:41pm
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Originally posted by formtool formtool wrote:

looking at the size of the Waikato region, its huge. So if Auckland just moves a little bit past Tuakau and just over the Waikato river there, we can say we are only taking our water. Sure the Waikato region wont notice a little bit missing. Sorry for people in Tuakau.   

Most of the people in the Waikato probably dont care where the Water ends up, but Tainui do. Sound like Aks is going to do more recycling of there sewerage so should solve the problem, Watercare probably cant treat the amount of water that is needed, or they would already be up with the play and there would be no shortages.
    A Good Skipper Keeps the water on the outside of the boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote brmbrm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2020 at 8:11pm
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What I find surprising is that it is the local councils who come to this arrangement.  I would have thought water supply across the country as a whole was a national issue: we have wet areas and dry areas; we have areas that need lots of water and areas that need less; supply infrastructure is pretty much national.  


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