The Fishing Website : Discussion Forums : Double plait or Bimini twist https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/ Tue, 02 Jun 2026 08:55:57 +0000 Wed, 25 Jun 2008 10:20:32 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 12.01 360 https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=30213 <![CDATA[The Fishing Website : Discussion Forums]]> https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_images/web_wiz_forums.png https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/ <![CDATA[Double plait or Bimini twist : The current majority advice of...]]> https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30213&PID=425104&title=double-plait-or-bimini-twist#425104 Author: Phecda
Subject: 30213
Posted: 25 Jun 2008 at 10:20am

The current majority advice of Charter Skippers at Whangaroa (well, I got around at least 3 so it's not comprehensive), is to use ALL MONO. This directly conflicts with what a lot of guys are doing here (dacron with mono topshot, never mind all-dacron). It has nothing to do with re-inventing wheels. It has to do with who best to believe. By your proposal, I should listen to Primetime (and that's not silly) and NO OTHER SKIPPER.

(besides, a FUNDAMENTAL from science class is to do experiments to confirm what one is taught. The alternate position is "just believe me", which is what Aristotle said)

BTW, here PETA calls themselves SAFE LOL
 
BBTW, your mentioning "bait" reminded me of something (bottom fishing). I appear to be one of the few using 10kg dacron for (Bait/SP's/Jigging) as an alternative to dyneema. It is NOT by choice, but because dyneema has been banned here for club competition. If we assume I like low-stretch braid, it was the best compromise I could think of. (it's much thicker, negating some of the advantage of dyneema). But this is way off-topic, as is the fact that the majority of sailing ropes ("sheets") are dacron...and dacron actually stretches quite a lot...which is why you use SPECTRA for spinnaker sheets...
 
My knowledge of dacron (which is just one brand-name for polyester) goes back to my caving days, longest free-drop I've done was Harwoods Hole at nearly 200m. This was no piddly marlin on the end of a line, it was MY LIFE.
http://heritage.dupont.com/touchpoints/tp_1950/overview.shtml
(nylon can also be treated for low-stretch similar to polyester. It's not done in fishing circles, but Bluewater Caving Rope is nylon treated specifically for about the same low-stretch characteristics as polyester. On a 200m free-hang, with polyester or dacron, you will "climb" at least 5ft or so just to take out the stretch (and then have the characteristics of a yo-yo). An average person on 11mm rope...)
]]> Wed, 25 Jun 2008 10:20:32 +0000 https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30213&PID=425104&title=double-plait-or-bimini-twist#425104 <![CDATA[Double plait or Bimini twist : Phecda, that is the easiest question...]]> https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30213&PID=425093&title=double-plait-or-bimini-twist#425093 Author: Peter Pakula
Subject: 30213
Posted: 25 Jun 2008 at 9:51am

Phecda, that is the easiest question on the planet to answer. The one who has the highest success rate / hours fished. ie hours / fish in the area you want to fish. If you can find out their systems then that's a starting point.
 
No question forums have been infiltrated by PETA agents who are trying to get you to have the highest failure rate possible, and to a large extent they are succeeding.
 
You should also ask the question from those you seek advice from. Do they fish to catch more or do they fish to loose less fish. They are very conflicting systems and outlooks.
 
You will also find that though many of the top skippers worldwide will differ on things you'll find they all pretty much do exactly the same thing in the same circumstances when fishing for the same thing in the same place.
 
They have been there and done that, so you can start from where they have finished. By nature the top guys are traditional, but in saying that there are few things they haven't tried. Systems that are truly new and new techniques are very rare and not easily adopted by mainstream crews. But if they are good enough they filter through.
 
Re-inventing the wheel is fun, but it's been done.
]]> Wed, 25 Jun 2008 09:51:30 +0000 https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30213&PID=425093&title=double-plait-or-bimini-twist#425093 <![CDATA[Double plait or Bimini twist : Peter Pakula wrote:In braid...]]> https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30213&PID=425092&title=double-plait-or-bimini-twist#425092 Author: Speedy
Subject: 30213
Posted: 25 Jun 2008 at 9:51am

Originally posted by Peter Pakula Peter Pakula wrote:

In braid a uniknot tied with both ends forming a double is actually much faster, easier and stronger. (use about 10 turns) many of the pros finish bimini's off with a form of uni knot)  
 
G'day Peter (or someone else), I'm a bit unclear how to create a double using the above method - could you expand on that method if you have a chance?....
 
Cheers, Speedy
]]> Wed, 25 Jun 2008 09:51:08 +0000 https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30213&PID=425092&title=double-plait-or-bimini-twist#425092 <![CDATA[Double plait or Bimini twist : Testing for oneself is part of...]]> https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30213&PID=425081&title=double-plait-or-bimini-twist#425081 Author: Phecda
Subject: 30213
Posted: 25 Jun 2008 at 9:24am

Testing for oneself is part of the great fun of fishing isn't it? (and remember, the idea of no topshot came not from me but ONE of the guys at WS Laurie...)
 
If I was to read just fishing forums, it is usually said that dacron lasts "forever". But I agree with you, it doesn't (or it only does because, with a topshot, it is seldom exposed to sunlight). So, I was pretty shocked to find the 37kg dacron continuously exposed was down to (20kg?) in half a season. Fortunately, the stuff exposed can easily be replaced by splicing (like a dacron top-shot as it were). If I was just to believe the majority opinion I have read in forums, I would believe dacron is "immune".
 
No none of it is "my own theories". I have never invented anything fishing-wise in my life. It is more a matter of taking often-conflicting advice and therefore having to test it myself in conjunction with asking whoever I have access to. It is WELL KNOWN that even the experts disagree, so which advice should I take when several highly-respected skippers disagree?
 
[I want to see for myself what all-dacron is like. So far, no bust-offs none (but a few with mono). Well, I do claim the idiot's prize for the only bust-in-half big-game rod this season, but that was leader wrapped around the rod and nothing to do with the line or the knots]
]]> Wed, 25 Jun 2008 09:24:05 +0000 https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30213&PID=425081&title=double-plait-or-bimini-twist#425081 <![CDATA[Double plait or Bimini twist : Ok Phecda, Dacron has only been...]]> https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30213&PID=425073&title=double-plait-or-bimini-twist#425073 Author: Peter Pakula
Subject: 30213
Posted: 25 Jun 2008 at 9:04am

Ok Phecda, Dacron has only been around for 70 odd years. Let us know how you go with your testing. Yes the bimini is used in braid, but it's not the best method. If you look through the writing on the bimini, you'll see it often written that the main benefit is it stretches with the line. In braid a uniknot tied with both ends forming a double is actually much faster, easier and stronger. (use about 10 turns) many of the pros finish bimini's off with a form of uni knot)
 
All knots are unsuitable on braid, that's why it was made hollow so it can be spliced. Dacron is one of the earliest synthetic materials made. It was one of the very first synthetic yarns. It has short fibres, no heat resistance, no UV filters. It's still a great material if: you don't expose it to sunlight, abrasion or twisting. If you look after Dacron it can last for years.
 
One of the many reasons it isn't commonly used as a line to the lure is that faults are very difficult to spot or feel. However when pulling lures you are more likely to pull hooks than break Dacron. If you used bait and gut hooked fish or on circles in the jaw you'll find the Dacron will fail enough times to understand why guys use nylon top shots.
 
Of course I understand you're penchant for testing your own theories.
]]> Wed, 25 Jun 2008 09:04:36 +0000 https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30213&PID=425073&title=double-plait-or-bimini-twist#425073 <![CDATA[Double plait or Bimini twist : Thanks PP. The business of no...]]> https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30213&PID=425060&title=double-plait-or-bimini-twist#425060 Author: Phecda
Subject: 30213
Posted: 25 Jun 2008 at 8:27am

Thanks PP. The business of no topshot is another issue, as you said.

The bimini is often used in tying braid isn't it? I didn't invent the 60 turns bit. And why would you say it is "designed for lines that stretch" (beyond that probably most knots may have been invented on stretchy line)

Yeah, splicing dacron is an excellent option (and 100%). Got some wrapped around my prop (bottom fishing with gamefishing rigEmbarrassed) cut it to recover the ends and re-splice to 100%! There is only one reason why I use a bimini rather than a spliced loop - it takes me a full lunar cycle to do a splice! (and I have never heard that the bimini is unsuitable on dacron or braid)

-----
Off-Topic: "no topshot" recommended to me by ONE charter skipper. Spoken to many. Aware 99% use topshot or many charter skippers use ALL MONO. Stretch = safer or more forgiving. Still testing all-dacron. This year got either a Blue or a V.Large Stripey to the windon onto the reel before hook pulled. No probs with the all-dacron? NONE! For all I know 99% of fishos may use topshots because they are sheep? There are even discussions (elsewhere, for smaller game not big game), that they put the mono underneath and the braid ON TOP!!!
]]> Wed, 25 Jun 2008 08:27:56 +0000 https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30213&PID=425060&title=double-plait-or-bimini-twist#425060 <![CDATA[Double plait or Bimini twist : For me, min 25 turns in all cases....]]> https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30213&PID=425056&title=double-plait-or-bimini-twist#425056 Author: Phecda
Subject: 30213
Posted: 25 Jun 2008 at 8:16am

For me, min 25 turns in all cases. For some slippery braids like BM4kg braid, 60 turns because anything less will slip.
(this conflicts with Sam Mossman advice, that more turns equals less strength, but too bad)
]]> Wed, 25 Jun 2008 08:16:48 +0000 https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30213&PID=425056&title=double-plait-or-bimini-twist#425056 <![CDATA[Double plait or Bimini twist : Pheda, if you are usiing dacron,...]]> https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30213&PID=425055&title=double-plait-or-bimini-twist#425055 Author: Peter Pakula
Subject: 30213
Posted: 25 Jun 2008 at 8:10am

Pheda, if you are usiing dacron, you should splice it to form a double. Both the bimini and plait are designed for lines that strech. You'll find there are reasons why 99.99999% of fishermen use a nylon top shot when targetting billfish on dacron, in particuler when using lures, but that's another story.]]> Wed, 25 Jun 2008 08:10:22 +0000 https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30213&PID=425055&title=double-plait-or-bimini-twist#425055 <![CDATA[Double plait or Bimini twist : Saltiga wrote:One thing when...]]> https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30213&PID=425052&title=double-plait-or-bimini-twist#425052 Author: Speedy
Subject: 30213
Posted: 25 Jun 2008 at 7:56am

Originally posted by Saltiga Saltiga wrote:

One thing when tying a double, once you have tied it, a thing to do is to pull the legs of the double apart, if the double is tyed well it wont go wonky if the double goes wonky cut it and start again.
 
That sounds like whats happening to me - I'm going wonky! LOL - it would be fair to say my knot tying skills are well below par - with the exception of my Uni knot which has served me well for years. As a result of not having done much game fishing, I haven't really tied too many doubles, so I have tried a few and can't tie a decent bimini to save myself. They twist up like a corkscrew after releasing the double - Any ideas what might be going crook? Also, how many turns do you give the double before forming the knot itself?
 
Sorry bout leading the thread slightly off course for a moment here too...
]]> Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:56:45 +0000 https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30213&PID=425052&title=double-plait-or-bimini-twist#425052 <![CDATA[Double plait or Bimini twist : On reflection Josh raised a good...]]> https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30213&PID=425045&title=double-plait-or-bimini-twist#425045 Author: Phecda
Subject: 30213
Posted: 25 Jun 2008 at 7:38am

On reflection Josh raised a good point. "24+kg line...bimini too bulky".

Currently my 37kg is all dacron and a bimini on dacron is small and neat enough. But earlier this year I was mucking with 37kg Momoi mono (.9mm) and got a bit stressed at the SIZE of the knot. With 4 diameters effectively, the knot must have been about 4mm in diameter. I assume a plait would be wide but flatter?

I take it FarNorfOwnage "taper first few rolls" on return part of Bimini refers to something in Roddy's NZFN article on the subject. Roddy recommended the first few "roll-backs" be "loose" not neatly wound against each other. Looks a bit "rough" but that's what he said. (I roll them up neat right from the top, per all the usual pictures)
 
I believe there is a serious danger (whilst tying a Bimini) of over-stressing the line which will end up a short way above the knot. For example, if the line "slips" even once whilst starting the roll-back, best to chuck it and start again methinks.
]]> Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:38:03 +0000 https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30213&PID=425045&title=double-plait-or-bimini-twist#425045