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Seachange - take note! : Nobody objected -nobody knew....

Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:06:52 +0000

Author: cirrus
Subject: 122521
Posted: 30 Jan 2017 at 11:06pm

Nobody objected -nobody knew. This seems to be the common way of achieving objectives these days. Seachange is similar.

" We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion,the stage where government is free to do anything it pleases ,while the citizen may act only be permission.'
Ayn Rand.

Seachange - take note! : mowerman wrote:A sneak attack...

Mon, 30 Jan 2017 22:39:00 +0000

Author: v8-coupe
Subject: 122521
Posted: 30 Jan 2017 at 10:39pm

mowerman wrote:

A sneak attack ...A very concerning example of Iwi being able to get their way over the ratepayers with the apparent assistance of a compliant council.

http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2017/01/nobody-objected-nobody-knew/

https://www.planning.org.nz/Attachment?Action=Download&Attachment_id=3820

It is the "partnership" lie at play again.
Those in power are too scared to stand up and call it what it is. A lie foisted on the citizens of NZ in the 70's by guttless and liberal politicians.
These extracts from an article written by a well known New Zealander of Maori descent.
1) "There is an old Chinese proverb: “When is the best time to plant a tree? Twenty years ago. When is the second best time to plant a tree? Now.” It’s the same with the Waitangi Tribunal. The best time to have shut it down was in the in 1985, before historical claims were allowed to be considered. By 1985, the Tribunal had been in operation for ten years and had almost run out of claims. Then the Lange government changed the rules, allowing the Tribunal to consider claims going back to 1840, and the rest is history…literally".
2) "I will finish with a warning. If you think the claims are nearly at an end, think again. Hundreds of new claims are being planned right now. These will challenge the Crown and seek compensation for the handling of the current settlement process. Too many people have too much at stake for the claims process to end'.
The racist and separatist Waitangi Tribunal is actively promoting and ensuring the "partnership" lie thrives. We are now starting to see some of the results from this "partnership" fallacy.
It is only going to get worse. Money for jam for these non productive stand over merchants. Someone mentioned a Taniwha tax. Do not rule it out as a joke. That mythical unseen non existant spiritual being has already been sucking and been well fed from the tax/rate payers tit.
That is why the Seachange co management is a joke. Do you really believe that 86% of the community will be able to stand up to the 14% with a 50% vote. Going on proportional national statistics. No way. Co management is a joke and it is on the majority of New Zealanders.

Seachange - take note! : A sneak attack ...A very concerning...

Mon, 30 Jan 2017 21:52:28 +0000

Author: mowerman
Subject: 122521
Posted: 30 Jan 2017 at 9:52pm

A sneak attack ...A very concerning example of Iwi being able to get their way over the ratepayers with the apparent assistance of a compliant council.

http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2017/01/nobody-objected-nobody-knew/

https://www.planning.org.nz/Attachment?Action=Download&Attachment_id=3820

Seachange - take note! : The san kiapara is now laying...

Sat, 28 Jan 2017 14:57:22 +0000

Author: pjc
Subject: 122521
Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 2:57pm

The san kiapara is now laying motuora to orewa back to tiri right now and still we caught undersize and 3 legal 345 mm.nothing Ro get excited about

Seachange - take note! : Overall the total take must be...

Sat, 28 Jan 2017 14:30:10 +0000

Author: mowerman
Subject: 122521
Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 2:30pm

Overall the total take must be reduced also at the same time environmental damage by bottom contact methods and pollution .

Wastage and damage... Commercial are top of the list

Recreational get blamed for wastage but it was MPI who increased this by increasing the size to 30cm so why should we give a dam ? Its MPI problem ? true they made the bed let them sleep in it .a little harsh but Im sure most follow my drift

No fish for export within 12nm would be a big step to rebuild the fisheries.

Where all this is going wrong as other species are being ignored ,there is more to the Gulf than bloody snapper .

Commercial methods and take have obviously been thinning the different species

The talk about B40 is just talk... can you see that occurring across the board in all species ? Never !!

They will attempt to increase Bio mass by reducing the recreational allowance yet again, this time with reserves effectively reducing the areas we fish .

Meanwhile 100 meters away its business as usual for commercial and their plundering wasteful methods ..

With soon to be used PSH nets and mincers to get rid of all the by-catch and small snapper..yes its alright for commercial waste, but not do anything to help a rebuild

Iwi are in with Commercial, they hold vested interests and Waitangi Treaty settlement handouts and the Gulf is just that ,A handout ...

Its not about anything other than a grab ,so far they have done very well but there are alot of Maori pissed off over these self appointed Mouth pieces speaking on everyone's behalf ... the rope is long enough, its a waiting game ..

Iwi and the gravy train

Seachange - take note! : cirrus wrote:What you have...

Sat, 28 Jan 2017 12:04:52 +0000

Author: v8-coupe
Subject: 122521
Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 12:04pm

cirrus wrote:

What you have just observed PJC clearly illustrates the absurdity ,injustice and bias in the proposed reserves on the inside of Kawau and Tiri and motutapu ,when just around the corner longliners can deploy thousands of hooks and hoover up as many small snapper as they can for export markets, while you throw the same size back for shag food or to die. How absurd.unjust ,immoral is that.?
These proposed reserves are a clear and blatent attempt to further exclude recreational.
People elected a government to represent them. They did not elect seachange.
Reserves will make little environmental difference while overall take remains the same.

Seachange is not about take ,but moreover who takes it.

Most people have not heard about seachange. Where is the discussion with the public. Where is the transparency.
Seachange will be an attempt ,not to reflect public opinion but to shape it.
Most is pseudo science wearing the environmental hat.

Most people , i suspect would be happy with the gulf just the way it is.

They still catch fish. Not as many as they once did,but still enough.
They do not want the gulf sectioned off,put into little boxes, with no fishing signs everywhere.
Leave the gulf to be the open ,free ,austere and beautiful place of peace and silence it already is.
It is the place to seek freedom and fulfillment and wild free range seafood.

As for the insignificant reserves. If they really want to make some difference ,it is time to stop measuring conservation success in sq kilometers,and see the real measure of conservation progress on how much bio diversity is saved from threatening processes . Overfishing,waste ,trawl damage ,tens of thousands of longline hooks spring to mind.

How about a big reserve where most fish are and thus most commercial effort is . That would never happen as it would touch the Holy Grail of large scale commercial fishing.
No group would ever touch that.
The better solution is reality,that neither excludes recreational or reasonable commercial fishing,emphasis on the word reasonable.

Time to grasp that reality. Fisheries management has failed us,as it has done world wide.
Maximum sustainable yield.
To quote Dr Sydney Holt,a highly esteemed marine scientist.

MSY enthrones and institutionalizes greed.It is a perfect example of pseudo science with little empirical or theoreatical basis.
As a target for fishery management it is inadequate and its pursuit increases the likely unprofitability and even collapse of fisheries. We in NZ have used this system for years,and this system is responsible for much fishery demise here in N.Z

Time to return to equal size limits for all. Not the current ,and wasteful disparity between commercial and recreational.
Time for genuine fishery management.
If they further attempt to exclude the people ,via unreasonable reserves ,size limits etc there will be backlash.
History shows all tyranny and inequality invokes a backlash.

You are correct on all counts.
To top it off there has been no public consultation what so ever. True public consultation should have happened before the Seachange group was formed. They should only have been formed to discuss what the public wants/suggests. Not what they, with their vested ineterests, think the public wants.
When the so called public consulation occurs, it will be nothing but a fait acompli and box ticking exercise.
In other words, the public will have been ignored yet again.

Seachange - take note! : What you have just observed PJC...

Sat, 28 Jan 2017 11:11:18 +0000

Author: cirrus
Subject: 122521
Posted: 28 Jan 2017 at 11:11am

What you have just observed PJC clearly illustrates the absurdity ,injustice and bias in the proposed reserves on the inside of Kawau and Tiri and motutapu ,when just around the corner longliners can deploy thousands of hooks and hoover up as many small snapper as they can for export markets, while you throw the same size back for shag food or to die. How absurd.unjust ,immoral is that.?
These proposed reserves are a clear and blatent attempt to further exclude recreational.
People elected a government to represent them. They did not elect seachange.
Reserves will make little environmental difference while overall take remains the same.

Seachange is not about take ,but moreover who takes it.

Most people have not heard about seachange. Where is the discussion with the public. Where is the transparency.
Seachange will be an attempt ,not to reflect public opinion but to shape it.
Most is pseudo science wearing the environmental hat.

Most people , i suspect would be happy with the gulf just the way it is.

They still catch fish. Not as many as they once did,but still enough.
They do not want the gulf sectioned off,put into little boxes, with no fishing signs everywhere.
Leave the gulf to be the open ,free ,austere and beautiful place of peace and silence it already is.
It is the place to seek freedom and fulfillment and wild free range seafood.

As for the insignificant reserves. If they really want to make some difference ,it is time to stop measuring conservation success in sq kilometers,and see the real measure of conservation progress on how much bio diversity is saved from threatening processes . Overfishing,waste ,trawl damage ,tens of thousands of longline hooks spring to mind.

How about a big reserve where most fish are and thus most commercial effort is . That would never happen as it would touch the Holy Grail of large scale commercial fishing.
No group would ever touch that.
The better solution is reality,that neither excludes recreational or reasonable commercial fishing,emphasis on the word reasonable.

Time to grasp that reality. Fisheries management has failed us,as it has done world wide.
Maximum sustainable yield.
To quote Dr Sydney Holt,a highly esteemed marine scientist.

"MSY enthrones and institutionalizes greed.It is a perfect example of pseudo science with little empirical or theoreatical basis.
As a target for fishery management it is inadequate and its pursuit increases the likely unprofitability and even collapse of fisheries."
We in NZ have used this system for years,and this system is responsible for much fishery demise here in N.Z

Time to return to equal size limits for all. Not the current , divisive ,and wasteful disparity between commercial and recreational.
Time for genuine fishery management.
If they further attempt to exclude the people ,via unreasonable reserves ,size limits etc there will be backlash.
History shows all tyranny and inequality invokes a backlash.

Seachange - take note! : I wouldn't blame the reccs...

Fri, 27 Jan 2017 15:25:14 +0000

Author: pjc
Subject: 122521
Posted: 27 Jan 2017 at 3:25pm

I wouldn't blame the reccs to much.3 longliners working tiri to flat rock toa motuora back to tiri.we fished in the middle of their gear for trow backs.every fish we landed went 280/295. How many hooks did they lay ??5000 or more.they have working that area now 4 days

Seachange - take note! : I thought this was quite a good...

Fri, 27 Jan 2017 14:05:32 +0000

Author: Kevin.S
Subject: 122521
Posted: 27 Jan 2017 at 2:05pm

I thought this was quite a good article I read yesterday.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/the-country/news/article.cfm?c_id=16&objectid=11789376

Seachange - take note! : Don18025 wrote:Get organised...

Fri, 27 Jan 2017 12:28:09 +0000

Author: v8-coupe
Subject: 122521
Posted: 27 Jan 2017 at 12:28pm

Don18025 wrote:

Get organised guys. Standing on the sideline and complaining will not help.

I note NZ Underwater Association is featuring this Revive the Gulf video on their Facebook page. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sRIlSDmNLQ

The message is clear - overfishing is the cause of our problems.

So recreational fisherman have to be part of the solution.
Seachange has the input from groups such as revive our gulf, Iwi, other recreational users...so we should stop complaining and get involved.

Great idea having this meeting and kick starting an initiative, Grunta.

I do not hold much hope of the rec sector getting a fair roll of the dice. The rec sector is the sacrificial lamb being held out as proof the greedy are doing things. When all they are doing is seizing control for financial and personal benefit. I only keep participating so I can face all the lazy moaners and tell them at least I did something instead of just whinging on a keyboard.