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50 Fishing Boats Refusing Observers

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    Posted: 11 Jun 2018 at 11:10am
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"The sea, once it casts its spell, holds one in its net of wonder forever." - Jacques Cousteau
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Kevin.S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2018 at 12:02pm
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50 Skippers refused to have observers onboard, but only 10 skippers taken to court.  Yet another example of who is actually calling the shots within MPI when it comes to enforcing fishing regulations.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2018 at 12:37pm
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Another interesting read. The boat where the observer was removed due to concerns for his safety should have just been tied up and not allowed to fish. The question is - why wasn't it? Once you accept that type of behavior you are opening the floodgates. 

As for those who say they can't take observers, I think the answer is to say that they have 6 months to make it possible or they can't fish. Amazing how many extra berths or extra safety equipment etc will suddenly turn up on boats that didn't have enough 'facilities' for that extra person. To be fair, unlike the F&B guy quoted, I can think of a number of legitimate reasons why an extra man might not be possible without extra forward planning, but that can't be an excuse to say that there will never be an observer on board. If it was, guess how all the boats will soon be configured - "Sorry, no room for an observer". 
Lets face it. The only reason for the observers is because the industry has been shown time after time to be untrustworthy. They will happily trivalise the loss of $millions of public asset as 'a mistake', or just being a 'one off', etc, but we are talking about the loss of $millions to the public. Where else would we trivalise losses like this and try to call them 'acceptable'? The arrogance on display when they do this is totally mind blowing, but they seem so convinced that they own all the fish that they just don't see it. They will however throw $millions at 'political solutions' and public relations campaigns to try and avoid getting made to perform to an acceptable standard. Acceptable standard means that the public would be happy if they had 100% full disclosure of the stuff that the industry invests $millions in trying to hide. It is obviously cheaper to throw money at TV adverts and political donations.

From memory there is somewhere between 1000 & 1500 commercial fishing boats in NZ? 9000 observer days means maybe 9 to 15 days each on the most active boats. If they fish around 250 days per year (guesstimate) that means that they get observed for maybe 4% - 5% of their fishing activities. This is obviously a huge imposition that they should quite rightly object to. After all who else who takes $millions of publicly owned resources every year gets observed by such a ridiculously high amount.!! On the other hand, how does 5% coverage do anything significant to try and turn the industry honest, and who the hell decided that this was sufficient coverage for an industry that does massive damage and has a deplorable history of lies and cover-ups? I don't know, but what's the bet that those 9000 observer days are heavily spread over a few larger boats who get used to having observers and leave next to nothing for observation of the majority of the rest of the fleet. We all know of course that should the observers see anything wrong, the reports will subsequently be 'hidden' by MPI and/or the government and only see the light of public opinion years later when someone 'leaks' their existence and some media outlet goes through the OIA process end up with some heavily redacted version trying to hide the true state of what happened, who the guilty parties were, and who authorised the  report getting 'hidden'.. 
We really do have a massive political sickness when it comes to our fisheries. The issues are so obvious and the attempts to solve them so pitiful that you just shake your head in disbelief and figure that there must be an awful lot of money 'involved'!

Apologies to the honest skippers out there (and I have met a few that I believe are just that), but overall the industry surely needs much more than 5% observation to get their attitude and practices sorted. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Catchelot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2018 at 1:55pm
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No room, meaning no cabin/bunk available, probably as its taken by Roger the Cabin Boy...Wink

Oh and not being able to meet the costs of the extra food...meaning MPI will issue the Observers with food vouchers and a lunchbox with a cut lunch in it, oh please and Really!?Shocked
"The sea, once it casts its spell, holds one in its net of wonder forever." - Jacques Cousteau
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote graham 99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2018 at 3:55pm
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trouble is they could use cameras ,live streamed to the internet .
and if a camera went down, the catch forfitted to the crown to make money to pay for the cameras and streaming
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote corosanta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2018 at 4:28pm
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Can someone remind me why they're not using the cameras any more?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2018 at 5:02pm
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The suspicion is that some nameless person in one or several of the coalition partners got a decent 'campaign contribution'.Certainly it makes no sense that the cameras are potentially off the agenda now. Official reason I think is that our new MoF are listening to the very justifiable concerns of the commercial fishing industry who are concerned about the privacy issues of their there crews getting caught peeing over the side or some such reason. Certainly more than enough justification to avoid cameras and carry on with our almost non-existent on-board observer monitoring. Maybe they are worried that someone independent will pull the footage via the OIA and when it shows dead sea birds, dead dolphins and mass dumpings it will 'all be taken out of context' as they won't have been able to put a bunch of spin around it before the public see it.
If the industry really was as worried about 'fishing for the future' as they try to say they are, then surely they should be the ones driving hard FOR the cameras because we all know that at least some thieving buggers are not looking after the fish stocks like they are meant to. The fact that they are investing huge sums in trying to avoid cameras is the exact reason why they should be deployed as quickly as possible 

Here is a quote from the news re the impact of cameras in Aussie. Our NZ fisherman must be much more honest than this because we don't need cameras here according to the government.  Obviously we have very different boats in NZ so the cameras won't fit like they do in Aussie.

A day after Fisheries Minister Stuart Nash suggested he might scrap the rollout of on-board cameras for fishing vessels, figures have emerged showing the devices had a massive effect on Australian fishers' reporting of discarding and bycatch.

A study undertaken by the Australian Ministry of Agriculture showed the reporting of captured sea mammals and birds was nearly eight times higher on longline fishing ships after monitoring cameras were installed in 2015.

The amount of discarded fishing catch declared also saw large jumps, with the likes of striped marlin, mahi mahi, moonfish, escolar and ray's bream all being reported in four to six times greater numbers than before

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote feeder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2018 at 5:25pm
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Is there any other industry in our wonderful country that can thumb its nose at the governing body and get away with it, somebody has to be on the take Angry.
No observer, no fishing.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote edge01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2018 at 7:17pm
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Pretty easy solution really isn't there. Either the observer goes or you don't leave port. I don't think it would take very long to get the message..........
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2018 at 9:32pm
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Jeez guys they got G Sinclair what else do they need? Geoff T? LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (5) Likes(5)   Quote bricker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2018 at 9:34pm
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Yes feeder, there is........the farming industry!!!! NAIT is a scheme set up several years ago to record EVERY cattle movement. There has only been 1 documented fine ($150) for not recording a livestock movement YET n some regions, as many as 70% (MPI's guess, not mine!!) of movements have gone unrecorded!!!

Oops.....now we have M. Bovis ripping through the national cattle herd and a conservative estimate of the "least cost" option at $850 million.

So when the farming lobby ask who should pay, maybe all those who can't produce full and accurate movement records for the last 3 years.

Sorry to have headed 'off topic', but as someone who lived through the UK Foot & Mouth outbreak of 2001, with over 6 million animals culled and a final bill of GBP 8 billion, some farmers should take a very very long look in the mirror.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (3) Likes(3)   Quote v8-coupe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 12:32pm
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Originally posted by bricker bricker wrote:

Yes feeder, there is........the farming industry!!!! NAIT is a scheme set up several years ago to record EVERY cattle movement. There has only been 1 documented fine ($150) for not recording a livestock movement YET n some regions, as many as 70% (MPI's guess, not mine!!) of movements have gone unrecorded!!!

Oops.....now we have M. Bovis ripping through the national cattle herd and a conservative estimate of the "least cost" option at $850 million.

So when the farming lobby ask who should pay, maybe all those who can't produce full and accurate movement records for the last 3 years.

Sorry to have headed 'off topic', but as someone who lived through the UK Foot & Mouth outbreak of 2001, with over 6 million animals culled and a final bill of GBP 8 billion, some farmers should take a very very long look in the mirror.



Absolutely bang on. It never seems to be the culprits footing the huge bills when something goes wrong.
It is always the taxpayer.
Fishing, farming and even the financial industry.
They cause the problems then get labeled with the "to big to fail" tag.
Step in the taxpayer.
No lessons learned.
Business as usual so to speak.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote corosanta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 4:13pm
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Sort of like the BNZ and Air NZ all over again. But then, they just took all our money and left the fish alone.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Wanda_Ra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 11:32pm
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Letting any industry police itself will end in tears.

Just need to to look at the leaky homes issue to see another example.

A few boats in aussie who removed the camaeras were escorted back to port by australian naval escort untill the cameras were reinstalled. 

 Enforcement work wonders.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Baru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 11:52am
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I am not in any way condoning farmers that have abused the NAIT system, but if any of you arm-chair critics that only know what you hear in the media or from pollies mouthing off, had to actually use the NAIT system you would understand it is an utter “pig” totally unfriendly from an administration and interfacing perspective.  Then you chuck in “privacy legislation” and you have a recipe for what has happened.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (3) Likes(3)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 1:48pm
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Our public 'servants' and political processes are fantastic at creating legislation and processes that are very focused around their own needs with little consideration for what it means to the poor sods that have to use the systems. The answer of course is to threaten ever larger fines and penalties until the risk of those is more than the cost of trying to actually use the systems that have been created. 
There is always the talk about how they 'consulted' before creating the system/process but the reality of those consultations is mostly going through a box ticking exercise and incorporating a few easy things to show that they 'listened'. Reality is that in most cases if you have serious issues with the proposed new system that might affect the public 'servants' getting what they think they need then those issues don't get addressed. 
There just isn't enough accountability built into our public sector nor our political system. Way too easy to hide the real information you don't want released unless someone 'leaks' enough for the media to use the OIA, but even then the reports can get redacted to the point that they say very little. Pretty sad really!
I don't know the farmers stock tracking system but if it is grossly unfriendly and works poorly that would be consistent with our public sectors track record. Couple that with a bit of apathy and we get the public forking out a $Billion or so from our tax dollars. Do you think anyone in the public sector will get held accountable for not implementing a workable system and properly engaging the farming community ?????
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote edge01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 8:02pm
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The nait system is a nightmare to operate
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote bricker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 10:14pm
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I am not in any way condoning farmers that have abused the NAIT system, but if any of you arm-chair critics that only know what you hear in the media or from pollies mouthing off, had to actually use the NAIT system you would understand it is an utter “pig” totally unfriendly from an administration and interfacing perspective.  Then you chuck in “privacy legislation” and you have a recipe for what has happened.

Sorry Baru.........first rule of commenting on something is to keep emotion out of the discussion and get your facts correct. Don't ever assume anything!! I am one of the poor sods who has to use this "utter pig of a system" on a regular basis. Yes it's "unfriendly from an administration and interfacing perspective" BUT it is a legal requirement and as such if I don't comply, I am breaking the law!! It is a dangerous precedent when everyone decides that if a particular piece of legislation doesn't work for them, they will merely choose to ignore it. That is called anarchy and takes society back to the very principles on which it is based.
Unfortunately those who have not complied in full are guilty. I have been told by livestock agents of wholesale non-compliance by those within he livestock industry.....both farmers and rural professionals. The system is definitely flawed and is not easy to use BUT IT IS THE LAW!!!

I had to use the 'animal passports' system implemented by the DEFRA in the UK following their F&M outbreak.......the NAIT system is a heck of a sight more user-friendly than that. If I did not have the correct paperwork, no carrier would load my stock, no market/auction would sell my stock and no buyer would accept my stock....pure and simple. It's not difficult but sadly a large chunk of my industry have felt no compunction to abide by a legal statute and now they have got the whole industry and potentially the whole country in the crap. Sorry....but I can't put it more simply than that and there's a whole heap of us out there that are pretty disappointed in the actions of some of our colleagues.

Seeing as you are obviously familiar with the workings of NAIT, you will have used it yourself to record your own stock movements?? If so, can you honestly say that all of those are fully accurate and compliant? I genuinely hope the answer is "Yes".
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote bricker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 10:22pm
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Couple that with a bit of apathy

Tagit - that's a lovely phrase but sadly woefully inadequate in this case. The farms around Winton that appear to have been the first cluster of the outbreak have up to 70% non-compliance in some instances in terms of NAIT livestock movements!!

It's rather like saying the two major seismic events in Christchurch were a "bit of a shake" - I do always respect your opinion but feel in this case it's a huge understatement.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Marligator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2018 at 9:03am
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Here is a very interesting article in todays herald on the NAIT system by a Livestock Agent. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/the-country/news/article.cfm?c_id=16&objectid=12068341
 
 
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