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1080,Environment, Doc, MPI, Fisheries.

Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steady she goes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 1080,Environment, Doc, MPI, Fisheries.
    Posted: 10 Sep 2016 at 9:32am
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There are a couple of articles in the - Fishing & Outdoor, September,(free in sports stores through out NZ) where the use of 1080 by DOC is discussed, one article in particular eluded's to the operation in the Wakatipu,Dart, Routeburn and Caples valley's area where 2 drops have been planned for September.  Criticized by the sporting hunters organisation and "a long standing family" from the head of Lake Wakatipu, James Vient said that the planned 720,000 hectare drop is nothing other than a FRAUD. The article outlines many arguments against the use of 1080 also showing the complete lack of transparency by Mrss. Maggie Barry and Nick Smith.

The same Nick Smith who has given his support to the use of GMO's even though local councils all over NZ are either against or hesitant with there use.

This then leads us to the other hat that Nick Smith wears and that is his  sometimes job of spokesperson for NZ Fisheries!  

NZ uses 90% of the worlds 1080 supply, 1080 being banned in USA. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Shilo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2016 at 9:50am
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Originally posted by Steady she goes Steady she goes wrote:

NZ uses 90% of the worlds 1080 supply, 1080 being banned in USA. 

Statements like the above are meaningless because you can't compare.  USA has a lot of native mammals - NZ's only native mammals are 2 species of bats. So of course 1080 would do more damage to US native wildlife then here in NZ.

Choices here are the risk of 1080 over other alternatives that because of their expense the country could never afford to implement. Much prefer 1080 drops then doing nothing and loosing our bush.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2016 at 10:20am
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Just think. If we lost our bush we could have more dairy farms. Fonterra would be delighted.LOL

There are records of Kea being killed by 1080.

But there seems to be alot of secrecy surrounding the use of poisons here.

Only a couple of years ago they sprayed Rangitoto and Motutapu with Brodifacoum to kill rats. Small boats fishing along side rangi noted with dismay at the number of pellets landing in their boats and surrounding water. Rule is ,never mix brodifacoum with water. Never.
Strangely ,within days a few pet dogs died after walking on North shore beaches. Culprit was soon discovered.Toxic sea slugs.
Never before or since have we had toxic sea slugs. Many  of the public could see through this.
And then to top it off ,one sunny afternoon in paradise, on Motutapu to be exact, they managed to shoot 25% of the worlds Takahe population. The greatest Takahe predation in recorded history.
Of course all of this breeds lack of trust in the system.
Time to be less Gung ho and more considered  . Open debate can only be preceeded by trust. At this point of time trust is very much lacking.



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Shilo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2016 at 11:50am
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The dogs had different symptoms then Brodificoum poisoning.  Rat poisoning leads to internal bleeding and symptoms appear 3-5 days later.  Sea slug was within 48hrs of being eaten and there was no internal bleeding.

The takahe shooting though was inexcusable. They should have used trained staff.

Agree lack of openness and episodes like the Takahe shooting leads to mis-trust.  But mis-information and incorrect "rumours" or opinions from those anti-Doc can cause much more damage.  A simple reply to anybody against 1080 is "Please suggest an effective alternative that is affordable".  If there was one then DOC would use it instead. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steady she goes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2016 at 12:32pm
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In 2010, a petition by anti-1080 activists found 93 per cent of Westland residents were opposed to the poison, based on canvassing of 1500 people.

1080 poison is made by the Tull Chemical Company in Alabama, in the United States, and is banned by most of the world.

In New Zealand, the poison is manufactured into pellets by Animal Control Products Ltd (ACP), a Crown-owned company, which manufactures more than 90 per cent of the pesticide formulations containing 1080 used inNew Zealand.


ACP LTD.. is a Crown owned company which manufactures more than 90% of the pesticide formulations containing 1080 used in NZ
The US Government has classified 1080 as a 'super poison'....
The NZ Government drops it from the sky by the tonnes.
APC has a manufacturing site in Whanganui.


There are many examples of "friendly fire poisoning" -


TROUT MASS-POISONED IN NEW ZEALAND-DOC WARNED FISHERMEN IN 2014 NOT TO EAT THEIR CATCH


Shilo - clearly NZ isn't the only country with pest problems so perhaps its time to look into alternative methods of controlling these animals who do have a right to life?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote viscount Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2016 at 12:49pm
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Shilo, what's your involvement with 1080, your pretty for its use, would you keep it in your house? Just laying around like DOC drop it? I would think not. It's a cruel way for any animals to die, let alone being dropped in streams for people's drinking water. People keep saying show alternative ways to keep the population down, I was showen a gas powered bolt gun that you leave in situ, has a 33 gram cylinder that has over a 100 shots that resets it self after every fire.
beers wings and things
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote Shilo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2016 at 1:38pm
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I would much prefer 1080 not to be used.  But what's the alternative?

Trapping and bait stations (inc the gas powered trap) do work but are expensive and can only be used in friendly terrain.  If all the spots that are accessible are pest free then those pests in the inaccessible areas will just move back into the pest free areas.  1080 is an option that can be used no matter what the terrain is.   

The Pest Free NZ that is currently being promoted is impossible.  To do so then all possums, stoats, rats, cats etc in both inaccessible areas and urban areas will need to be eradicated.  

As stated earlier, all other countries with pest problems have native mammals that would be effected by 1080 more then NZ birds are. We don't have native mammals.  Same goes for trout - I love fly fishing but trout is not a native and thus is regarded by some as a pest (not by me) and wouldn't be a high priority to protect.

Best solution would be a marsupial and a rodent specific virus but that would have to be created and there would be the great GE debate.......
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2016 at 2:44pm
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That's a good balanced view of the situation Shilo.


Best gurnard fisherman in my street
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2016 at 11:45am
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Originally posted by Shilo Shilo wrote:

I would much prefer 1080 not to be used.  But what's the alternative?

Trapping and bait stations (inc the gas powered trap) do work but are expensive and can only be used in friendly terrain.  If all the spots that are accessible are pest free then those pests in the inaccessible areas will just move back into the pest free areas.  1080 is an option that can be used no matter what the terrain is.   

The Pest Free NZ that is currently being promoted is impossible.  To do so then all possums, stoats, rats, cats etc in both inaccessible areas and urban areas will need to be eradicated.  

As stated earlier, all other countries with pest problems have native mammals that would be effected by 1080 more then NZ birds are. We don't have native mammals.  Same goes for trout - I love fly fishing but trout is not a native and thus is regarded by some as a pest (not by me) and wouldn't be a high priority to protect.

Best solution would be a marsupial and a rodent specific virus but that would have to be created and there would be the great GE debate.......


Right now there may not be a known alternative. Have heard that a small percentage of target pests are not hit by 1080 and rebuild populations. Is it possible that a 1080 resistant strain of pests could emerge. Same with the virus option. There will always be a small percentage that are virus immune,and they could breed into a virus resistant strain.,
But one thing that puzzles me is this. Currently living in the center of Auckland. In our garden yesterday i counted 17 Tuis all feeding at the same time on nectar from a flowering tree. Here we have some native birds & self introduced birds all the time. Grey Warbler,fantail,Tui,kingfisher,lots of white eyes,welcome swallows,and plenty of introduced birds ,thrush ,blackbird,starlings sparrows ,various species of finch etc.
Yet there are also plenty of rats,cats,some wild,and the odd possum. Despite this the bird population is healthy. What is the factor that allows this in the presence of known predators. ?
Is it more abundant food supply.?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2016 at 5:36pm
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That's a real easy question to answer cirrus. Those birds can all fly.

Just a quick edit on that.

Tui are much more common in Auckland these days and the reason for that was a move away from the treeless quarter acre section that was so common in the 60's. Bring in the seventies when everyone had at least one silver dollar gun tree. That only made many things worse and kerpt plumbers and tree fullas (see what I did there?) busy.

People then got smarter and planted kowhai etc and tui numbers increased. Now that there is a move to high density housing I can't see too many opportunities for tui to flourish in Glen Innes, Papatoetoe, Mangere,  Sandringham, Dannemora etc.

Still be plenty of tui in Torbay and Epsom of course Confused


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2016 at 7:56pm
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Tree that attracts Tuis here is Prunus Campanulata. (Taiwan cherry)

Also a very common street tree.

Has deep pink-cerise bell shaped flowers-similar shape to Kowhai,and are dripping with honey which Tuis love.
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Originally posted by cirrus cirrus wrote:

Tree that attracts Tuis here is Prunus Campanulata. (Taiwan cherry)

Also a very common street tree.

Has deep pink-cerise bell shaped flowers-similar shape to Kowhai,and are dripping with honey which Tuis love.
Ha Ha John,4 kowhai trees in bloom and 5 resident tuis,any sparrows that turn up for bread the tuis give them hell,just waiting on the karaka tree to fruit and hopefully get a kereru or 2 visiting,cat wont go out if the tuis are there,not my choice cats choice must of had a dive bombing?
As posted last year, We camp at doc camp broken hills,been going there for years with little or no bird life,last year went down after a 1080 drop earlier,there are tui,cuckoo,fantail etc including the black rat which appeared to hang around in trees,trout/eels so i am not sure on the 1080 but seemed to of helped restore this area.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Shilo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2016 at 9:49pm
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The way I think of it is that if 1080 kills of 10% of the bird life but 90% of the possums & rats then the native birds must be winning in the long run.

Tuis are really bad tempered to other birds - unless the're "drunk" then they are just fun!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Southern_Jez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2016 at 8:34am
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Originally posted by cirrus cirrus wrote:


Right now there may not be a known alternative. Have heard that a small percentage of target pests are not hit by 1080 and rebuild populations. Is it possible that a 1080 resistant strain of pests could emerge. Same with the virus option. There will always be a small percentage that are virus immune,and they could breed into a virus resistant strain.,
But one thing that puzzles me is this. Currently living in the center of Auckland. In our garden yesterday i counted 17 Tuis all feeding at the same time on nectar from a flowering tree. Here we have some native birds & self introduced birds all the time. Grey Warbler,fantail,Tui,kingfisher,lots of white eyes,welcome swallows,and plenty of introduced birds ,thrush ,blackbird,starlings sparrows ,various species of finch etc.
Yet there are also plenty of rats,cats,some wild,and the odd possum. Despite this the bird population is healthy. What is the factor that allows this in the presence of known predators. ?
Is it more abundant food supply.?

To develop resistance pests would need sub-lethal doses,  the lethal dose of 1080 is so small you can't ingest a sub-lethal dose. So no, we wont be developing 1080 resistant pests.
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