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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote :Hunter: Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2017 at 7:22pm
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It might be less I dont remember the exact revs, its been a while since gamefishing. My point was that the hours were not amassed doing low revs. Not interested in trying to diagnose the problem, ill leave that to the experts. My issue is being charged for something that shouldnt have failed when it did. I will see what Yamaha comes back with.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MacSkipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2017 at 7:59am
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Originally posted by :Hunter: :Hunter: wrote:

Not interested in trying to diagnose the problem, ill leave that to the experts. 
I understand what you are saying and fair enough and I don't want to pick a fight - but would like to point out I have seen/heard/been out in more than a few boats that are poorly setup from new by "experts" - is not like a car where whole setup is controlled by manufacturer - imagine if you bought car/engine/gearbox/tires separately on advice from a car salesman? 
Hopefully shop that sold you boat setup properly - it is just the issue you have may indicate a problem - investigate it now while under warranty!
All I would do is educate myself and check (or post numbers here for advice) - boat handling/speed/revs/fuel economy is what I should expect from boat - please don't leave it to the experts often they don't care!
Good fishing trip nothing breaks, great trip catch fish.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2017 at 11:16am
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I guess the point was that they rightly won't warranty something that is being 'abused' through incorrect setup or being operated outside it's design parameters. The other point being that if the issue is a setup/usage issue then you will probably continue to get the same problem going forward. Hopefully it is just a one off and some bad plugs.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote :Hunter: Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2017 at 1:43pm
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Tahiti the boat is not being abused. Like I said I can't recall the exact revs that it trolls at. It might have been 2400, I can't recall and I wasn't asking for opinions on the setup, This discussion was about who should pay for failed parts, not whether there was an issue with my boat.

For what it's worth Surtees have setup hundreds of these boats exactly the same so I'm sure they know what they are doing. And secondly the company that I brought the boat from is the same company who installed the motor and has done all the servicing. So if there was some sort of setup issue they would be responsible.

I'll check my trolling revs next time I'm out.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2017 at 2:58pm
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For what it's worth Surtees have setup hundreds of these boats exactly the same so I'm sure they know what they are doing. And secondly the company that I brought the boat from is the same company who installed the motor and has done all the servicing. So if there was some sort of setup issue they would be responsible.

 
They The general indusry, all makes brands... set up std.. basic load in the boat maybe 2ppl at the most then pitch the prop so get max or just below max rpms. Thats it.
 You load your boat be it another person , or full on gear tanks whatever.. they dont ask. Did they ask you anything about end use, weight of ppl what gear etc fresh or salt water..?  No?

 They also dont take much notice of prop slip either , on just has to look at reviews, the crunch a few numbers... usually propped for no weight, and the slip is stuff all... which make a very nice performing and fast boat for marketing propaganda  sales purposes.
  It also means that they can put a smaller and far cheaper engine on, min power that makes the numbers good AND the price. Joe public gets home and the boat never seems to perform like the sea trial...then they start posting here.. what can I do to fix it.. change prop etc...but under powered is under powered
 Or they intend to do off shore stuff.. propped for general use, not trolling not water skiing , not as a race boat, not to push a bloody great 35' displacement launch.
 Each of which will have a different prop.

To assume they have set YOUR boat up for YOUR end use.. is just that an assumption.
 If you are trolling on a min or underpowered boat propped up for general use, then you will be short on bottom end rpms hp. To re prop to get over that means loosing cruise speed WoT speed and significant economy at cruise.
A well powered/ over powered boat will still have more than enough hp at low rpms plus reserve power ..
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote :Hunter: Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2017 at 6:05pm
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Man what is with you guys trying to diagnose my boat, there isn't an issue there. The boat is fitted with a 115 which is the max hp for that hull. Yes Steps actually they did ask those questions, and I am more than happy with the performance.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Shrekky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2017 at 9:12pm
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After reading all of the comments, if the pluges were fouled or excessively worn, not a dealer issue.
I agree with the guys who are pointing out that funning a motor at 3200 rpm, while not planing, is more than likely an excessive load on the motor,
Surtees boats are known for being power hungry, the deep vee hulls dont lift well, somit is quite concievable that this rpm versus speed is correct, if the boat is at the point where a little more throttle would result in it getting over the hump, and planing, with engine revs then rising significantly without any throttle adjustment.
Americans would call it lugging, here, perhaps labouring the motor. Excessive plug wear and deposits on the electrodes will occur. Enrichment of the mixture is very possible.your fuel consumption per km must be horrible. The boat is simply not suitable to be trolling at those speeds. 5.5 to 6kn, the point before the bow lifts is the best speed for the boat, and minimal fuel will be used to achieve it.
Outboards will always chew through plugs far quicker than cars, as cars run very lightly loaded compared to outboards.
The delay in the account being forwarded is very bad business practice.
you can't fix an idiot with duct tape, but it does muffle them for a while...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote :Hunter: Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2017 at 9:52pm
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If you read the whole lot you would be aware that I can't remember what revs the boat trolls it, Could well be 2400, my point for stating the revs is because the dealer was saying the reason for the plugs fouling was that I had done a lot of low revs trolling e.g. just in gear. Only burning 7lh at trolling speed so I'm happy the way the boat trolls and was never a question here. End of the day the part failed at half the hours Yamaha said they as replaced at.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2017 at 4:50am
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A lot of small diesel engines like mine suffer damage when idling long periods,they need to run at 3/4+ yanamar 16hp in my case.they like the heat.3000hrs no smoking no oil burn  30yr old etc. so wonder if the same principle applies to outboards?
The boss said "see you tomorrow" didnt know he liked fishing.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2017 at 9:19am
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The boat is fitted with a 115 which is the max hp for that hull.

 
The max hp rating for a hull has nothing to do with well powered..
 It is to do with the construction.
 Well powered is having the engine hp to do what is intended at those rpms, without excessive loading of the powerehead
 ie having , ideally around 15 to 20% reserve power at that rpm.

You know what the gross boat weight on the water.. can be calced reasonably accurate from knowing the HP and WoT speed...
 Then  calc the required hp for the given working rpm range intented, add 15/ 20%  then cross reference with the rpm/ hp graph.
 Or prop to a position in the rpm range that meet that hp +
 So althu you may have asked the questions , did they actually do that?
 As it happens if you ask a sales person, about greer crouch, Keith chances are will give you a blank look back... ask what the hull crouch constant is at low plane speed and WoT..


 A lot of ppl have issues with handling, cruising efficiently and speeds, trolling, often different issues.. makes of engines  2S/ 4s , lo9ts things blamed.. end of the day 99% of the time is not powered and/ or propped correctly for the use.

 As you said.. you discussed the end use with them.. if they have not matched the engine and/ or prop to that it should be upto them... and if plug problems are due to that...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bigfishbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2017 at 9:26am
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My neighbour has the same boat with the same engine. He's got a 16P prop on his, and the dealer had to change it down from the 18p that the boat was supplied with.

You may have ended up with the 18P as well, which would result in the carboning up you have experienced.

To your point about this thread not being about boat setup, if it is over propped then they should pay for the spark-plugs and new smaller prop.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2017 at 5:32pm
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Bfb - I don't think Hunter cares whether his boat is setup right for his usage pattern or whether the problem may reoccur if not addressed. He is quite clear that he just wants someone to pay for the failed spark plugs.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote :Hunter: Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2017 at 8:09pm
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Thanks bigfishbob, an actual useful post. I'll have a look next time I get it out.

Finally Tagit well done you get it, post is about who is responsible for paying for something that crapped out in half the time it should have.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote :Hunter: Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2017 at 7:54pm
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Update: Yamaha NZ have agreed to pay for the spark plugs and work done by the dealer/workshop along with addressing another issue. Good to see somebody stand behind their product.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smelli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2017 at 8:49pm
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Good they sorted it Wink
What was the other issue it had?
 
Did you check what prop you got, 18p or ?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote :Hunter: Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2017 at 9:48pm
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Prop is 16p. The lower unit bolts are all starting to rust, apparently a bad coating was used so replacing with new ones.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote big moocher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2017 at 5:01am
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Save the emails from Yamaha for the next time you have a problem with your plugs, because it doesn't seem like either party is willing to take any measures to avoid the same failure in the future.

 
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