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Trojen winch hard to pull out. Stumped

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    Posted: 01 Aug 2018 at 2:57pm
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The 10:1  5:1 manual trojen which has slowly become noiset5y and harder to pull the rope out.
 So I replaced the bushes .. the main spool where rather , but not excessively worn...
Wasnt  them.
 Its just when pulling the rope out, winding up no issues at all.
 Stumped.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2018 at 3:30pm
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Did you replace the nylon bushes at each end of the main shaft?IF so, did you grease them? If you did, try cleaning the grease out and using a squirt of silicon spray instead. Sometimes that helps but normally if hard to pull out there is extra play somewhere where it shouldn't be
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2018 at 3:50pm
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Did you replace the nylon bushes at each end of the main shaft?
 yes..
IF so, did you grease them? If you did, try cleaning the grease out and using a squirt of silicon spray instead.
 I was thinking at the time.. "should I use petroleum grease on nylon bushes or not"... and did...I had lent my pack of inox grease to a m8 to service his reels....
And didnt give another thought till you mentioned it..
 Thanks

 Was fine for the 1st trip out.. then got harder and harder each trip... when pull on the rope... spin the spool with handle or electric drill, turns out the rope perfect...

Sometimes that helps but normally if hard to pull out there is extra play somewhere where it shouldn't be.
 That is what have been looking for.. shims all replaced as per original assembly, no play...Thu initially did have an issue with a pin move and rub the side of the gear next to it.. quick tap fixed that.

Will pull the pins and slide the main axles out grease , and re grease in next few days.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2018 at 8:06pm
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Similar situation "Steps" on a friends trailer,managed to get some Teflon turned down for bushes ,no grease used and presto it works,starting to think there are different qualities of nylon about today,in a totally different situation we used nylon bushes and an old tub of castrol grease and it basically ate the nylon in a very short time.
QMS is not WORKING
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote krow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2018 at 8:06pm
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Try removing the small sprocket (gear) you don't use as wear and tear on the gear maybe causing a slight alignment issue. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote post hole Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2018 at 8:13pm
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Mine used to do that found a good spray of crc and it would be sweet for a few months.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2018 at 8:45am
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Try removing the small sprocket (gear) you don't use as wear and tear on the gear maybe causing a slight alignment issue. 

 the gears not /have no wear.. everything gets lubed, sprayed after every trip.. steering to wheel nuts.
And we use both gears.. the drill pulls the boat up on the 10:1, and if someone is free, take a little load off the drill on the 5:1.. when can catch it spinning.

a friends trailer,managed to get some Teflon turned down for bushes ,no grease used and presto it works,starting to think there are different qualities of nylon about today
 Bushes less than $5 each.. takes 15/ 20 mins to replace..
 The side loading of the main bushes, teflon IS NOT  the material of choice at all...If it was, I have a lathe and have a couple blocks teflon on the shelf 
 Ideally needle bearings on the main shaft would be the go, but at $60 + each.. As against $7/8 and 20 mins every 6 or 7 yrs, and thats on a winch used on ave every 2 to 3 weeks.

Mine used to do that found a good spray of crc and it would be sweet for a few months.
Yep it was just brain freeze when I assembled...
 Long term I suggest go to inox rather than CRC as many CRCs will eventually soften the surface molecules of the nylon.
We all think of inox and reels.. back in the 70s we used gallons of it on nylon bushes, conveyor/ roller components, table surfaces as it met food hygiene regulations.

What is of poor design or practice, is pulling the boat up tight .. have chain on of coarse (untensioned), and the rear tie downs holding the boat forward...but the main load is the winch.. or rather on the main shaft bushes.
We use a large truck tie down to take most of the load off the winch.  Not the one in this pic..


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (5) Likes(5)   Quote MATTOO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2018 at 6:29pm
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So a man with solutions to everything can't solve this problem.
Could you not download the appropriate solution to pass on.

Has that boat ever been in the water.

I mean really Steps. You can do better then this. I know you know the answer.

Just cruising in a pimped old Surtees! Or my now sweetas pimped out Southern 755 HT0!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2018 at 9:58am
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So a man with solutions to everything can't solve this problem.
Could you not download the appropriate solution to pass on.

 That comment is offensive, and ignorant 
There are many on these fortums who are regular  crew, know the boat , know that the stuff I comment on is not mythical"download"

Has that boat ever been in the water.

I mean really Steps. You can do better then this. I know you know the answer.

 Lets see.. last week, the weel before, about 3 weeks before that.. a break for couple months.. only got out 2x cause selling the house..
Oh and I order my XD50 oil by the 20L go thru 2.5 to 3.5 drums per yr, and that been for the last 7/8 yrs

How often do you get out?

I mean really Steps. You can do better then this. I know you know the answer.
 If you had an open mind, you would notice a lot of my stuff have comments like.. dont ask how I know not to do this.
 And also stuff is backed up with pics... of our own boat trailer etc...

I mean really Steps. You can do better then this. I know you know the answer.

 And in this case IF you bother to read you will see where I say in replay to Tagit I had thought about the issue when doing, real dumb, and still did it , then forgot..

What a stupid very poorly thought out and researched  post to make m8, when there are so many,including on these forums who have seen with their own eyes...



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Far Quirk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2018 at 6:56am
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Not that impressed with Trogan gear full stop.  It rusts when all the other parts of the Voyager trailer don't.  The spool where the rope winds onto is a mass of rust despite playing the fresh water hose on this diligently.  The rope is hard to pull out, but regular lubes do help.Better galvanising would be nice!
Far Quirk - I'm goin' fishn!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2018 at 7:48am
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The spool where the rope winds onto is a mass of rust despite playing the fresh water hose on this diligently.

The original trojan I replaced was like what you describe...I dont think fresh water is going to get down thru tightly wound rope, let alone get in to rinse any salt water off the rope.. even with a 3000 lb water blaster.
 To do so would mean unwinding, rinse re seal (lanocoate) then have to , under tension re set the rope when winding on.
 So before winding on the rope for the 1st time under tension to set it, I sprayed the drum etc with lanocote.. well everything gets a light grease and spray ...and dont have an issue anymore.
Being fair , galv is not exactly very restant ro wear from rubbing so would not go too gard on the galve thing.
 From memory , in the instructions there was something about regular rinsing.. and /or using a grease sealant..

Seen a few other winches at the ramp.. where ppl unwind when launching and the hook is ready on retrieve, and some of those are rather rusted.
Just thinking about that now...I wonder if drums ever rust out enough to let go??  
 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MikeAqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2018 at 7:52am
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Ditch the wire and get a synthetic braided winch rope.

You'll never look back.
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Originally posted by MikeAqua MikeAqua wrote:

Ditch the wire and get a synthetic braided winch rope.

You'll never look back.
rope is just as bad if not worse for rest of winch though I guess there is less metal - if it gets dipped in water more water on winch drum afterwards - I had same problem and I had rope from new - should have treated as steps suggests from new -was thinking about this - trailer suppliers should offer 3 options of trailers at different price points - 1/standard (cheapest), 2/extra rust proofing (extra thicker galv, rust prevention - I would ask for this if buying new or refurbing) 3/alloy trailer?
Good fishing trip nothing breaks, great trip catch fish.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Raging Bull Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2018 at 10:50am
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I had a similar issue, got the blokes at Hosking Trailers to build me a new one, works sweet now!



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Big -Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2018 at 3:33pm
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Synthetic ropes are not uv resistant, so dont leave them pulled out in the sun while you are off fishing.
you can't fix an idiot with duct tape, but it does muffle them for a while...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote OneWayTraffic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2018 at 3:33pm
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Amazing how problems can be solved by throwing money at them. Tongue

At first I thought this could be due to cogs moving slightly when  turning one way vs the other and increasing friction, but that was already mentioned. Other possibility is the cogs themselves are unevenly worn. Is it possible to put them on backwards and see if that changes anything?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Big -Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 2018 at 10:11pm
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It is not generally possible to refit the cogs backwards, and really, the problem was solved when the author realised he had lubed nylon bushes which had swolen, gripping tight on the shafts.
you can't fix an idiot with duct tape, but it does muffle them for a while...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2018 at 10:15am
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RB
 I know that trailer/ parking spaceWink

 OWT  yep its about pocket depth..
 but worn cogs? those gears pull , what 5/ 5.5m at best  25 time per yrs IF one manages the time and enough weather windows per yr to do so, if able to fish any day of the week. Reality would be well undeb 100m per yr....nah.. and thats even if no lube..

 BD .. yes something I have watched with the synthetic rope and having laid out while fishing... again length time.. number hrs sun is actually blazing...and after 6 or 7 yrs on this rope, still good...
But even so , still have a heavy duty tie down to take weight off winch rope ....and is now the 2rd in 5 or 6 yrs.. because of UV break down...and current getting due for replacement..

As to problem solved... sort of...not conclusively.. yet
 Yes cleaned bushes out.. yes tested under load.. at home and 1 trip....conclusive will be after 5 or 6 trips..
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MikeAqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2018 at 9:56am
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Originally posted by MacSkipper MacSkipper wrote:


rope is just as bad if not worse for rest of winch though I guess there is less metal - if it gets dipped in water more water on winch drum afterwards - I had same problem and I had rope from new - should have treated as steps suggests from new



To clarify ... I wasn't suggesting a synthetic winch rope would stop the winch itself from rusting, but the rope itself won't rust.

I'm not sure if synthetic braid holds much water, you certainly don't see it running off the line as it's laid onto the the spool or anything like that.

I thoroughly rinse the winch rope after the boat is on the trailer.  It's the first and last thing I rinse.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2018 at 3:03pm
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That diamea winds on so damn tight, if you rince there is no way any rinse will get to the spool barrel, or any water that maybe in the rope with remain after such pressure..
 But rinsing or not, water / salt will get down the sides, and any salt on the 1st part of the rope will get on the spool..
 I have my rope ut to length..
 ie when wind out, I leave about a 1 1/5 turns on the spool.. I know when I walk down the plank, andf pick up the hook hanging on the 2nd to last roller, there is enough length to hook the boat and when stand up to walk back, enough loose rope to stand up.. and tension the bow against the center roller  easy...
 A little thought makes things very quick and easy..
 A quick wind to take that slack out, the boat is held on the center roller..

And the reason for only 1 1/2 turns on the spool is.. the more layers you have.. ie the larger the spool gets.. the faster the boat comes up at a given speed, the the effort increases dramatically..
 Goes bal park like this
1st layer wind on say X
 2nd layer  is just over 1.5x X
 3rd layer is getting to 2 1/2 x X
 4th layer If have enough rope/ trailer length getting upto 4 times..

With wire rope the diameter on each layer is even greater.. the dimmeera stuff compresses.

 Now you make consider that thin strop seat belt stuff....
 Till you actually measure what and resise what how winds on..
A rope winds on across the spool right.. this stuff winds on on top of its self.. EVERY turn...and that spool gets far bigger far faster...
 Unless you can drive the boat right up into the trailer on the ramp you use and  wobbly roller , not keel trailer.. hence short , only a couple layers.. still small diameter spool
 The web stop stuff means a 4 lettered word    "work"

So as you see "I work very hard at being lazy"


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