FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Rotoiti

Page  <1234 11>
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Redfinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2016 at 10:33am
Redfinger View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 29 Jul 2002
Status: Offline
Points: 6435
Another marathon trip for just me and the fc390 - 3 and a half hours from Forrest Hill North shore to Hinehopu Rotoiti. Had to be careful with icey roads.
An annoying  easterly limited my options alot, the hot lumo yellow flies that worked last month caught nothing. 2 EACH ON Pat Swift Jack spratt, Grey ghost and traffic light killer pattern. Only kept the one that wouldnt revive - most of them were fat obese 2.5lb footballs. Had another 4 or 5 hits. Snapped off one on jack spratt on a double strike.
Caught fish at the skids, off the willows off emerys store hinehopu, and up just past ski lane on northern shore.
Off the willows fish holding in 26m , similar in other places.
Spoke to a chap fishing hard into one of the cliffs and had some better fish - he said in 17m and got them all around 2pm. Similar bite to me.




Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote RC17 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2016 at 12:02pm
RC17 View Drop Down
Silver
Silver


Joined: 28 Jan 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 216
was down over the weekend, think i got about 6 or 7 fish for 6 or 7 hours worth of fishing. fished much the same areas, fish were holding in 20-22m, but caught a couple around the 15m mark - definitely worth drifting right in to 12-13m at this time of year. fish were a mixture of 3lbers and 6lbers, all in great knick.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Redfinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2016 at 1:51pm
Redfinger View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 29 Jul 2002
Status: Offline
Points: 6435
Wouldnt of minded the odd 6lber myself!
What flies were doing the job for you?
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Far Quirk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2016 at 11:02am
Far Quirk View Drop Down
Moderator - Brown Belt
Moderator - Brown Belt
Avatar

Joined: 12 May 2003
Location: Ellerslie
Status: Online
Points: 2686
Nice going RF.  Would have been great to join you, but w*** got in the way. A final trip before 30th June?
Far Quirk - I'm goin' fishn!
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Redfinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2016 at 1:09pm
Redfinger View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 29 Jul 2002
Status: Offline
Points: 6435
Probably - will keep you posted Mr FQ.

Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote RC17 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2016 at 5:23pm
RC17 View Drop Down
Silver
Silver


Joined: 28 Jan 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 216
Orange bodied rabbits and olive wooly buggers. Got 1 on a jack spratt
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Redfinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2016 at 9:27am
Redfinger View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 29 Jul 2002
Status: Offline
Points: 6435
Have tried the orange rabbit for a very limited time - will have to give it a longer go. Ditto wooly buggers - my bottom fly that has been going ok is the Traffic Light.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Nebuchadnezzar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2016 at 8:41pm
Nebuchadnezzar View Drop Down
Silver
Silver


Joined: 30 Oct 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 126
Just remember that very little color exists at depth. Red is the first color of the spectrum to dissipate; +5m. Followed closely by orange and yellow. The only color to still be present at +20m are shades of blue through purple/violet.
Colors like red, orange and yellow will take on a neutral complexion similar to the surroundings. This is not a bad thing because all of the trouts natural prey will also take on the neutral colors of their surroundings.
The best use of color at depth is through contrast, simple light and dark.   Flies with a light body and dark top or flies with dark bands over a light body for example. Your traffic light fly is a good example of multiple contrasts.  Or even better is jet black all over.  Trout hunt for the majority of their prey by looking upwards for silhouettes.  A jet black fly or lure is very visual against the distant  illumination of the surface and is also very vivid in a some what colorless world.  A jet black rabbit has worked well for me in the past. 

Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2016 at 12:15pm
Rainbow View Drop Down
Topic Moderator
Topic Moderator


Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 2668
Interesting concept and generally well known.    However it does not account for the fact that trout take an almost transparent smelt such as a grey ghost at 25m in preference to a dark fly.    This preference is explained by the universal relationship between predators and prey which is always in favour of prey.    It follows that predators seek out the young, the old and sick as an easier and safer "wounded buffalo" option.  
So how does this relate to the above smelt fly example when there are a million other smelt close by?    IMO the unnatural jigging action identifies the grey ghost as a "wounded buffalo" that triggers the predatory attack instinct of a trout that might not even be looking for food at that time.    It may also account for the attack on completely unnatural looking "Attractor Style" flies.
 
That brings into focus the importance of the jigging action.   What action comes closest to imitate a wounded smelt?    Is it just a slow lowering and raising of the rod or could that be improved?   On my last trip I watched a nearby guy in a dinghy hooking up regularly.  Interestingly he employed a few very pronounced short, almost spastic wrist flicks followed by a pause then more flicks.    Before long his rod bent down with another strike.   The guy was not just fishing a smelt imitation he was fishing a "wounded smelt."
 
 I studied that action for a while and did it myself.    It definitely worked better than my monotonous lift and drop.   
 
Rainbow
 
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Redfinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2016 at 1:03pm
Redfinger View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 29 Jul 2002
Status: Offline
Points: 6435
Was plotting a last fling on saturday but looks too windy for us drifters  (from the north east) from midday.  Bugger.
Could try anchoring I suppose.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2016 at 1:36pm
Rainbow View Drop Down
Topic Moderator
Topic Moderator


Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 2668
You could try a bigger drogue or use two and or use a heavier sinker.   I think drifting even in fairly windy conditions is preferable as it covers new fish all the time.    When anchored you have to wait for a fish to swim past.    I think this time of the year fish are more spread out and drifting finds more of them.
Rainbow  
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Redfinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2016 at 1:57pm
Redfinger View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 29 Jul 2002
Status: Offline
Points: 6435
Interesting that Rainbow - I would believe that and common sense would tend towards covering more area.
However remember a couple of times last year when I was having a tough day and spoke to two anchored boats who were doing considerably better than I. Slow for sure but they put some good fish in the bin.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2016 at 3:34pm
Rainbow View Drop Down
Topic Moderator
Topic Moderator


Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 2668
I would try anything to slow the drift down to stay over the flies.    As you have a small boat you could even try a small eclectic motor.    Not the expensive GPS self guided one but an ordinary trolling motor to either hold position or slow down the wind drift by motoring upwind.    Dare I say it you could probably get a staff discount for one of them.
Anyway good luck with whatever method you use.     Better than moving the lawn.
 
Rainbow
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Nebuchadnezzar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2016 at 8:00pm
Nebuchadnezzar View Drop Down
Silver
Silver


Joined: 30 Oct 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 126
Originally posted by Rainbow Rainbow wrote:

Interesting concept and generally well known.    However it does not account for the fact that trout take an almost transparent smelt such as a grey ghost at 25m in preference to a dark fly.    This preference is explained by the universal relationship between predators and prey which is always in favour of prey.    It follows that predators seek out the young, the old and sick as an easier and safer "wounded buffalo" option.  
So how does this relate to the above smelt fly example when there are a million other smelt close by?    IMO the unnatural jigging action identifies the grey ghost as a "wounded buffalo" that triggers the predatory attack instinct of a trout that might not even be looking for food at that time.    It may also account for the attack on completely unnatural looking "Attractor Style" flies.
 
That brings into focus the importance of the jigging action.   What action comes closest to imitate a wounded smelt?    Is it just a slow lowering and raising of the rod or could that be improved?   On my last trip I watched a nearby guy in a dinghy hooking up regularly.  Interestingly he employed a few very pronounced short, almost spastic wrist flicks followed by a pause then more flicks.    Before long his rod bent down with another strike.   The guy was not just fishing a smelt imitation he was fishing a "wounded smelt."
 
 I studied that action for a while and did it myself.    It definitely worked better than my monotonous lift and drop.   
 
Rainbow
 

A highly visible "wounded buffalo" would attract some attention. Smelt are far from translucent, you may be confusing them with whitebait.  Just trying to point out that color is not as important as some may think.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2016 at 1:22pm
Rainbow View Drop Down
Topic Moderator
Topic Moderator


Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 2668
Trouble is we don't really know how and what colours fish see.    As you rightly point out contrast either built in or contrast as a whole certainly works.    it is the way to go in dirty water and at night.   In clear water I tend to go with more imitative designs.    Does UV enhancement really work on fish and not just on fishermen?   A friend who regularly attends the International Fly Fishing circus comes back with new ideas every year, which quite often counters the "hot news " of the previous years.   
 
What all this amounts to is that fly tying/design is an integral and absorbing part of fly fishing that goes way beyond saving a few bucks.
I just could not imagine going to a shop and buying flies for my next fishing adventure. 
 
Rainbow
 
BTW when talking about contrast it reminds me of an experiment I did a few years ago to camouflage my fly line.    I coiled it and immersed half the coil in a die solution which resulted in a 6" pattern of different shades of green.    It looked really sexy on the water until the line moved.   Then every dark section moved on its own and looked like a series of wagons dragged across the surface.  Far from being camouflaged the contrast between light and dark moving made it highly visible .
 
There is currently a fly line company offering the same camo patterns which will have the same effect.
 
There are plenty of suckers who believe anything endorsonators tell them without thinking it through themselves.
 
Rainbow
I know the difference between smelt and whitebait and the difference between smelt from Taupo and Rotoiti.  The photo is of Rotoiti smelt.    If you look carefully you can see a Jack Sprat fly next to the smelt.
 
 
 
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote RC17 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2016 at 2:45pm
RC17 View Drop Down
Silver
Silver


Joined: 28 Jan 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 216
Fished Rotoiti over the weekend, one last shot before the season closes. Resisted the urge to pick up the fly rod and jigged all weekend with mixed results. Boated about 12-15 fish over the weekend down the Hinehopu end from the willows around to Gisborne Point, and not a single fish over 3.5lb. Every fish was a replica of a 3lb bullet. Catching them everywhere from 13-20m of water.

Would have thought we might have got a couple of good ones amongst that many but the bigger fish obviously had other things on their mind!


Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Micsam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2016 at 1:49pm
Micsam View Drop Down
Bronze
Bronze


Joined: 18 Aug 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 30
I'd like to say the bigger ones are in the shoreline line spots but it's been pretty-lame fly fishing overall. Perfect conditions last night at Ruato not a single fish landed. Nobody fishing at all by 11:00pm? Unheard of even a few years ago even the diehard heave and leavers gone home!!
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The Tamure Kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2016 at 3:22pm
The Tamure Kid View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum


Joined: 25 Aug 2015
Location: Auckland
Status: Online
Points: 1309
Interesting thread, Mr Rainbow, Redfinger and others.

Just catching up on it.

As per my post in one of Rainbow's earlier threads re smelt flies, my experience jigging at Tarawera was interesting in terms of two points made above.

1. I had to row to ensure the old tin dinghy i was in didn't just shoot across the surface in very blustery offshore winds. i just did short choppy strokes to stay in the general area and make sure my line was more or less vertical.

2. That leads to my second point - that being solo and resting the rod on the stern of the dinghy (with my foot on the butt) while I did my short, choppy oar strokes, would have - I'm sure - given the set of smelt flies the jerky action of a dying baitfish as the sinker bounced on the bottom in the chop. That kind of twitchy movement would be hard to replicate with the rod in the hand.

As for the colours discussion: I always found it interesting that Gary Kemsley's fairly well known marabou night pattern, which he has written about on numerous occasions as being absolutely deadly, had an olive body and a red wool tag. You'd think that was pointless at night? But he was very clear about the recipe.

The same discussion above re colours is applicable for those who do softbaiting in the salt. At 18m, is a Nuclear Chicken green and red, or grey and brown? At 45m, all colour is supposed to be gone. But I've seen first hand how one particular colour seems to work better despite five guys doing exactly the same thing.

As Rainbow points out, the fish are the ultimate judge. Even if colours are muted, there may be certain fluorescent factors in certain lures or materials that we can't see with our eyes, including the UV content. Some people swear by it.

My thinking is that fish in the lakes may zone in on the flash which we've all seen smelt give off when the make a sudden change of direction. Stand on a lakeside jetty with smelt swimming around and you suddenly see one fish flutter silver. As do sprats and piper etc in the salt. So even if colours are washed out, and smelt are camouflaged near the bottom by their colouration adapted to the surroundings, they detect that alarm signal - like the underside of a deer's tail, Rainbow?

I get the point re silhouette hunting, but maybe flies which incorporate large eyes, a bit of flash (but not too much), and the right movement, are the 'supernormal releaser' for the lake fish we're targeting.
I certainly caught some great fish at Tarawera on the Swift epoxy jack sprat which would have had almost no silhouette - but it has big, obvious eyes, the right profile, and as it jerked and twitched every so often it would have given off a little flash.

Anyway, just my thoughts.




Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2016 at 4:15pm
Tagit View Drop Down
Moderator - Black Belt
Moderator - Black Belt
Avatar

Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Location: Westhaven, Auck
Status: Online
Points: 12787
Just had Rotoiti smoked trout pate for lunch. Damn fine it was. Trout was from a mate who has fished the Rotoiti shoreline for around 15 years or so. Said the fishing was extremely slow this year and has been in the decline anyway. Thinks it may be a combination of the staggered release policy and the huge numbers of fish being removed by jigging now.
www.dreamboats.com        Bareboat Charters - Fishing Charters - Corporate and Party Cruises
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2016 at 8:47pm
Rainbow View Drop Down
Topic Moderator
Topic Moderator


Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 2668
Tagit     I am far from an expert on present day Rotoiti.     However, I night fly fished the release points for several winters after the Big Fish programme was introduced,   I caught over a dozen double figure fish and have personally seen 20 lying in the grass at Ruato one frosty morning.    That morning I was the last one out and on my last cast at one of the small rips hooked an 11.5bls jack.     Many will recall the photos of all the big fish adorning the walls at Pat O'Keeve's tackle shop.    Things have certainly changed since those days.
I recall Pat saying that when jigging started he sold 40 sets but the next year he sold 400.    It certainly is a very successful way of caching trout.     I am sure F and G got a handle on the total number of fish in the lake and keep that carrying capacity up to balance that with the available food.     Nor do I believe that the genetics have changed   If anything selecting superior breeders in the Rstrain programme should ensure late maturing fish.    What has probably happened is that a lot of potential double figure fish are caught before reaching this magic weight and jigging may be partly to blame.   
Lets not forget that F&G sole income is from license sales and to sell enough licenses they need lots of happy anglers not a handful of shore line fanatics who guts it out on frosty nights to catch a trophy trout.    They respond to the market and the market is boat based.    the double figure fish are now as rare as hen's teeth but the rest of them are not to be sneezed at .      Try Taupo if you need some comparison 
 
Rainbow
Back to Top
Page  <1234 11>
Forum Jump
Forum Permissions View Drop Down


This page was generated in 0.266 seconds.