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Softbait braid to mono knot

Printed From: The Fishing Website
Category: Saltwater Fishing
Forum Name: Soft Bait Fishing
Forum Description: Anything to do with this latest and greatest way of catching our favourite species
URL: http://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=72824
Printed Date: 25 Apr 2018 at 10:36am


Topic: Softbait braid to mono knot
Posted By: Catchelot
Subject: Softbait braid to mono knot
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2011 at 5:05pm

What is everyones opinions on the best knot for light braid to mono trace for softbaitfishing?

And I am asking for softee'in not fancy PR knots like jiggers do...
 
I guess with this style of fishing we do away with swivels, even small ones for joining our trace to our mainline.


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"The sea, once it casts its spell, holds one in its net of wonder forever." - Jacques Cousteau



Replies:
Posted By: GSPOT
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2011 at 5:09pm
FG


Posted By: Catchelot
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2011 at 5:16pm
Ok then GSPOT are you speaking from experience? Meaning if you've just lost your gear to a cutta can you tie these quickly and easily in a boat rocking and rolling with wet and sticky hands?
 
Or is this more suited to your workshop in ideal conditions?
 
Because I am after a simple one that can be deployed at sea if you catch my drift.


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"The sea, once it casts its spell, holds one in its net of wonder forever." - Jacques Cousteau


Posted By: letsgetem
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2011 at 5:23pm
I dont use a knot - but I have read many articles on them - the last one was Field & Stream 8/11 - 
 
Light-to-heavy line splice, for tying on thicker lines such as shock leaders.

 Winner: Six-turn Yucatan knot
(doubled line): 157%

 Also tested:
Five-turn Bristol, or no-name,
knot (doubled line): 148%
Slim Beauty (single line): 94%
Albright (single line): 94%

I have tried tieing the Yucatan and found it easty, compared to some others that are hard.
Someone said that 6 turns might not be enough for some braids, so I suggest say 10 turns. Doubled, means making a loop in the braid before tieing the Yucatan. best for this, would be a Bimini twist.


Posted By: Structfab
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2011 at 5:26pm
Surgeons knot is quick, simple and reliable


Posted By: Catchelot
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2011 at 5:26pm
Thanks for that Letsgetem but I suck at tying Biminis with light braid...ok more practice grasshopperOuch

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"The sea, once it casts its spell, holds one in its net of wonder forever." - Jacques Cousteau


Posted By: Bigfishbob
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2011 at 5:52pm
Or you could have just done a search to find the million times this question's been asked before.
 
Oh and the answer to your question, back to back uni knot, with the braid folded over itself to double it's thickness. It's simple and never breaks for me........ maybe I'm just soft, but that's a whole 'nother subject.
 
Not quite game enough to tie it with my eyes closed, but they ain't what they used to be and I don't need alot of light to do it, so almost as good as having 'em closed?
 
The only problem is that if I use 40pound nylon, which I don't anymore, the knot won't go through the levelwind eye on my curado.
 


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www.waikatosportfishing.co.nz


Posted By: John_Ra
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2011 at 6:11pm
Originally posted by Catchelot Catchelot wrote:

Thanks for that Letsgetem but I suck at tying Biminis with light braid...ok more practice grasshopperOuch
 
Ahh grasshopper, no need for bimini, try a 5 turn spider hitch, then yucatan. Or just double it & tie ya knot.
 
back to back uni another option, just make the trace about meter & a half so knot wont go thru the eye, if you want can put a bead on braid as a stopper.
 
A pr knot is good to tie at home 1st, then when murphy calls, well your practising will bear fruit...
 
UNI would be my bet, yucatan needs to be tight, a tad hard with light stuff.....
 
remember breathe in....out....    in....    out....   in....   out.........


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http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Olfart
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2011 at 6:26pm
Here's what I use....

The Improved Albright Knot


  1. Double one end of the leader to form a loop. Run the main line through the loop and begin wrapping around both legs of the loop, going up to the leader.
  1. Make five wraps.
  1. Begin wrapping back down the leader, going around both legs of the leader and the previous main-line wraps.
  1. Complete five wraps back down the leader and pass the tag end through the loop, going out the same side it came in.
  1. Partially close the knot by pulling on all four strands of mono.
  1. As the knot begins to tighten, release both tags to pull only on the standing end of the line and leader.
  1. Cinch the knot, and trim tag ends.



If using mono or fluorocarbon, as the leader, this knot draws up to a very slim knot which passes easily through the guides of the rod.  I have never experienced this knot "letting go" ....
  


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Semper in excreta sumus, solum profundum variat....





Posted By: PJay
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2011 at 4:17pm
OK, Al (and BTW I liked the pun of your forum handle as it was before...):
 
1.   I always tie a double, because I think the doubled light braid holds on to fluoro leader better than a single thickness or a line just doubled for the knot but cut off at the knot.  On the boat, a 6- or 7-turn Spider Hitch to make the double (10 seconds - just tried it).  I think Biminis are stronger, but far prefer to tie them on land than aboard a small dinghy or a kayak at sea.
 
2.  Albright as in Olfart's post, but I use a lot more turns of the double braid around the leader - typically 9 up and 7 back.  Takes buggerall more time than fewer turns. (25 seconds including trimming - just tried it.)
 
I have found that these work adequately for me and are quick and easy to tie. Lots of other knots, and these ones tied slightly differently, have failed to hold for me.  I find back-to-back uni knots in the softbaiting application are bulky enough to rip rod tips off - has happened to me twice, once when tied by me and once by a very well-known expert.  (No names, no pack drill.)


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PJ


Posted By: GSPOT
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2011 at 4:28pm
Originally posted by Catchelot Catchelot wrote:

Ok then GSPOT are you speaking from experience? Meaning if you've just lost your gear to a cutta can you tie these quickly and easily in a boat rocking and rolling with wet and sticky hands?
 
Or is this more suited to your workshop in ideal conditions?
 
Because I am after a simple one that can be deployed at sea if you catch my drift.

It is quicker than my old double then back to back uni. Smile

Have got it down to 45 seconds in Garage last night.  The trick is to wrap the braid around first an pinky finger.


Posted By: Catchelot
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2011 at 4:58pm
Originally posted by PJay PJay wrote:

OK, Al (and BTW I liked the pun of your forum handle as it was before...):
 
1.   I always tie a double, because I think the doubled light braid holds on to fluoro leader better than a single thickness or a line just doubled for the knot but cut off at the knot.  On the boat, a 6- or 7-turn Spider Hitch to make the double (10 seconds - just tried it).  I think Biminis are stronger, but far prefer to tie them on land than aboard a small dinghy or a kayak at sea.
 
2.  Albright as in Olfart's post, but I use a lot more turns of the double braid around the leader - typically 9 up and 7 back.  Takes buggerall more time than fewer turns. (25 seconds including trimming - just tried it.)
 
I have found that these work adequately for me and are quick and easy to tie. Lots of other knots, and these ones tied slightly differently, have failed to hold for me.  I find back-to-back uni knots in the softbaiting application are bulky enough to rip rod tips off - has happened to me twice, once when tied by me and once by a very well-known expert.  (No names, no pack drill.)
 
 
Thanks Pete, I was gonna seek out the Masters great guidance on this matterLOL
 
I can tie a spiders hitch no probs, out of interest how long do you make your double?
 
And thanks Olfart for the great diagram you ae most helpful Sir, I must have a play.
 
 


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"The sea, once it casts its spell, holds one in its net of wonder forever." - Jacques Cousteau


Posted By: Fishing Addiction
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2011 at 10:11pm
simple for me, double with spider hitch then back to back uni. Fast and reliable for me. If do 5 turn with braid and 3 or 4 for flouro its not too bulky but doesn't slip either


Posted By: petethemeat
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2011 at 10:27pm
just this very basic albright for me with 8-15lb fireline.
I guess it is the "unimproved albright". LOL
http://www.leadertec.com/tipsandtechniques/fishing_knots/knots_albright.html


Posted By: Saltiga
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2011 at 10:28pm
was using Albright but now a FG knot, so smooth through the guides for casting into the wash 


Posted By: petethemeat
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2011 at 11:12pm
Originally posted by Saltiga Saltiga wrote:

was using Albright but now a FG knot, so smooth through the guides for casting into the wash 

 
been using the FG for jigging (50lb braid to 100lb mono) and it seems good, just seemed a little OTT for light gear. 
Do you still melt the end of the leader in to a little blob when using the FG on light stuff?


Posted By: Getting jiggy with it
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2011 at 12:02pm
Spiders hitch and then a back to back uni. Easy peasy. The back to back uni is easier to tie with the doubled mainline imo. Caught Kingies to 11kg using 5kg braid and 15lb Fluro using this knot so it works for me.

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I'm what Willis was talking about


Posted By: PJay
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2011 at 8:29pm
Originally posted by Catchelot:   out of interest how long do you make your double?
[/QUOTE Catchelot:   out of interest how long do you make your double? [/QUOTE wrote:

 
It's usually about 1 to 1 1/2m; I doubt that the shock/ab
 
It's usually about 1 to 1 1/2m; I doubt that the shock/abrasion resistance reasons for a long-ish leader on mono counts much for braid, but I got into a habit.  Also if I want to change the leader to heavier or lighter, I've got heaps of doubled line to play with.  I have gone as low as 1ft double with no difference in hooking or fish playing discernible by me.
 
(Mind you, the "fishy stink" around the truck today wasn't discerned by me, either.  Spilt goob from some fillets I carried down to the son in Auckland, simmered in a hot cab...SWMBO was not amused.)
 
PS - yes, I know I always have a "PS" of some sort - I read somewhere a piece of very sage advice: "Find knots you're confident in and practice tying them until you're the best at them you can possibly be."  I am certain that my unhappiness/failure with some knots is mainly because I didn't practice doing them enough.
 
PPS how can a knot be 148% or 157% line strength? Or, more accurately, how on earth can that be measured independently of the line?


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PJ


Posted By: JW
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2011 at 8:44pm
Tried all sorts but keep going back to 5 turn spider hitch in the braid with back to back uni. Improved albright is supposed to be a very strong knot but I don't like it after it has been through the guides a few times i.e. it has failed on me a few times whereas the other may not be quite as strong but is more reliable tied in a hurry. I saw something on youtube where the albright was tested as the strongest so gave it a good go for softbaits. I always use the albright for a surfcasting shock leader but that's nylon to nylon.


Posted By: JW
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2011 at 8:52pm
Quote
"I am certain that my unhappiness/failure with some knots is mainly because I didn't practice doing them enough."

Very true. When they fail you tend to go back to what you know rather than persist and risk losing a fish.


Posted By: Potty
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2011 at 9:40pm
"five turn surgeon" is my knot of choice for joining braid too fluro.
Why? - 1/ Quick
         - 2/ Strong
         - 3/ Tag end of the fluro is facing the reel, so doesn't catch in the guides when casting.


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Love fishing, love my job. It's a bloody shame that they clash. http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Fissure
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2011 at 9:55pm
Originally posted by Potty Potty wrote:

"five turn surgeon" is my knot of choice for joining braid too fluro.
Why? - 1/ Quick
         - 2/ Strong
         - 3/ Tag end of the fluro is facing the reel, so doesn't catch in the guides when casting.
 
X2, except 4 turn.Thumbs Up


Posted By: Olfart
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2011 at 10:22pm
Originally posted by Potty Potty wrote:

 Tag end of the fluro is facing the reel, so doesn't catch in the guides when casting.
Haven't had that problem, Potty.  Mind you, I always have a long leader (at least twice the length of the rod) so maybe that's the answer with the Improved Albright Knot.  Or maybe I have just been lucky so far...

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Semper in excreta sumus, solum profundum variat....





Posted By: Kenshin
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2011 at 10:56pm
.Hi,

I've been recently practicing to tie the FG Knot. This knot is said to be as strong as the PR w/o using any bobbin. THis knot doesnt need any doubles or your legs. Just your teeth on the early stagesLOL.

You can google that this knot is widely used in asian light tackle. Goes out the guides as if there wasnt any knot there.

THis is done in 3-5 mins. Showed it to Mark(marx) and he was surprised how strong it is.\.




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Be patient and calm – for no one can catch fish in anger. –Herbert Hoover


Posted By: Catchelot
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2011 at 8:08pm
Well yesterday I tied a double with a spider hitch and then did a back to back uni onto my mono and it faired very well for the evenings session.
 
Today I did the same with the spider and then tied the doubled braid around my mono as a BA no name knot which I like as well...
 
Just like Dilmah tea do ttttrrry itLOL


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"The sea, once it casts its spell, holds one in its net of wonder forever." - Jacques Cousteau


Posted By: Capt Asparagus
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2011 at 10:41pm
So what is the diff between the Yucatan knot, the venezuela knot and the improved albright knot?


Posted By: Kezza
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2011 at 11:02pm
Spelling?

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http://www.legasea.co.nz" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Olfart
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2011 at 11:37pm
Originally posted by Capt Asparagus Capt Asparagus wrote:

So what is the diff between the Yucatan knot, the venezuela knot and the improved albright knot?
Not sure about the venezuela knot, but this is how to tie the yucatan:
(Totally different to the improved albright....)

1) Make a short double line using a http://www.leadertec.com/tipsandtechniques/fishing_knots/knots_Bimini.html - Bimini twist  or a  http://www.leadertec.com/tipsandtechniques/fishing_knots/knots_spider.html - Spider hitch . Hold the double line and the leader parallel. If joining a mono leader to superbraid make the Bimini with 30 - 40 turns instead of the usual 20 turns.Yucatan knot 1

2) Wrap the double line 4 times around the leader (15 times for superbraid).

Yucatan knot 2
3) Bend the end of the leader back on itself and pass it through the end of the double line. Lubricate with saliva and carefully pull tight. The two lines will wrap around each other. Trim the tag end of the leader close.Yucatan knot 3

 

4) The finished knot is compact and very strong. It casts well and will pass through rod guides easily. 

 

Yucatan knot 4


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Semper in excreta sumus, solum profundum variat....





Posted By: sappercatcha
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2011 at 12:06am
i use an albright knot or a back to back uni knot depinging on what i feel like doing at the time


Posted By: Bigfishbob
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2011 at 9:40am
You can skip the spider hitch when tying back to back uni. Just flod the braid back on itself before tying with the doubled section.
 
The only difference you'll notice is one less knot.
 
Do TTTTTTTTTTry it!Wink


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www.waikatosportfishing.co.nz


Posted By: Blue Asparagus
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2011 at 9:54am
whats wrong with the knot I showed you Al, I would be keen to hear if it is failing you

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Ultimate GAME Fishing Adventures. Northland



Posted By: letsgetem
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2011 at 10:12am
I have tried the Yucatan and its easy - certainly easier than the back to back uni (and much stronger).
 
This website has good pictures.
http://fishingdestinguide.com/KNOTS.html - http://fishingdestinguide.com/KNOTS.html
 


Posted By: Catchelot
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2011 at 10:44am
Originally posted by Blue Asparagus Blue Asparagus wrote:

whats wrong with the knot I showed you Al, I would be keen to hear if it is failing you
 
 
Nothing at all mate, but with light skinny braid and fat sausage fingers I have trouble tying itLOL
 
Yeah I know, practice GrasshopperTongue


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"The sea, once it casts its spell, holds one in its net of wonder forever." - Jacques Cousteau


Posted By: Catchelot
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2011 at 10:46am
Originally posted by Bigfishbob Bigfishbob wrote:

You can skip the spider hitch when tying back to back uni. Just flod the braid back on itself before tying with the doubled section.
 
The only difference you'll notice is one less knot.
 
Do TTTTTTTTTTry it!Wink
 
 
I tend to agree with you on that point BFB and also cos a spiders hitch is not a strong knot, 55% strength from memory.


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"The sea, once it casts its spell, holds one in its net of wonder forever." - Jacques Cousteau


Posted By: JW
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2011 at 12:26pm
I stopped using a spider hitch for a while there and tried just doubling the line. Its the cleaner option but I find it a bit fiddlier to tie as you need to be more careful when tightening the knot to get the line laying nicely. Being a lazy **** I went back to the spider hitch. I don't believe the spider hitch is weak knot after pulling for a break on more than a few occasions. I'm really interested in this FG knot. 5 minutes is too long to have a soft bait out the water between rigging but if I get into jigging and top water stuff it looks like the answer to the PR. This is definitely a good day for trying knots indoors. By the way, did anyone watch the fight for life last night? fantastic bouts - all of them Thumbs Up


Posted By: Bigfishbob
Date Posted: 05 Dec 2011 at 9:36am
Spiders hitch probably doesn't weaken as much in braid as it does in Nylon. But either way it's still weaker than a bimini. Never really thought of the doubled line as fiddly but I do make sure I'm keeping the turns of braid laid out along the "spine" of Fluor through the knot. Once they're laid out, I pull them up as usual and there's no problems.

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www.waikatosportfishing.co.nz


Posted By: Far Quirk
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2011 at 10:25pm
Have been using the lazyman's version of the Yucatan:
 
Don't tie a double (the double knot is the weakest point)
 
Make a loop with the braid.  Pass the mono thru the loop, wrap around the braid 7 to 9 time, back thru the loop, moisten, pull tight.  Tied this way it is neat, but a bit bulky, with wraps of mono around the braid core.
 
This knot worked for me for at least a season, but seems less reliable lately.  I may go back to the 4 or 5-turn surgeon's loop.  Double the braid before tying.  Not as neat as the Yucatan, but pretty reliable.


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Far Quirk - I'm goin' fishn!


Posted By: Olfart
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2011 at 10:33pm
Geoff - have you tried the yucatan by making the loop in the leader and winding the braid around the leader?  Makes for a slimmer and tidier knot IMHO.... 

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Semper in excreta sumus, solum profundum variat....





Posted By: Ell-nino
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2011 at 10:47pm
Catchalot - practise the Bimini, you should be able to knock one out in a minute or two, and dont use your legs. I saw some joker on "outdoors with Geoff" tie one in a minute, he looped the braid and twisted it in one hand about a dozen times, then put the loop on a bollard, put some weight on the twists and let the twists overlay then threw in a couple of half hitches and that was it.
Attach your leader with a yucatan, also should be able to do this under a minute, then either a uni or rapala (leftys loop) to you jig head.  Paul Senior uses a uni pulled down on his thump (this gives the loop for the jig head to wobble around on) and when a good fish comes on he knot just tightens up. I use a rapala

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Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast.


Posted By: Grunta
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2011 at 11:09pm
Originally posted by Olfart Olfart wrote:

Here's what I use....

The Improved Albright Knot

If using mono or fluorocarbon, as the leader, this knot draws up to a very slim knot which passes easily through the guides of the rod.  I have never experienced this knot "letting go" ....
  


Same except I've added a finishing knot on the braid (as you'd finish a bimini twist when tying a gamefishing double) after having a couple pull thru under load. Super-quick to tie and works for me. The only knot that's maybe quicker is a 4/5 turn Surgeons which I'll use for heavier braid.


Posted By: Lethal
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2011 at 2:26pm
different makes of braid have different make-ups, hence the reason people have some problems with different knots....

saying what works for you, needs to also have the type of braid it is working with, that is the main reason for all the confusing reply's, some having great success with some knots and some not....   

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Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing


Posted By: PJay
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2011 at 2:55pm
Yes, Eric, good point. 
I have had 2 models of braid (one in a different type from a manufacturer I do often use) where I just could not get the knots to hold leader to line - even when just tightening them up, try whatever I could.
 
However, the knots I mentioned first work on all the braids I currently use, whether fused or true braid.  (Brands: Berkley, Sufix, Stren, and TufLine.)


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PJ



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