Scales for setting drags??
Printed From: The Fishing Website
Category: Saltwater Fishing
Forum Name: Buy Sell Trade or Exchange
Forum Description: Anything used that you want to buy or sell
URL: https://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=125528
Printed Date: 19 Apr 2024 at 7:50am
Topic: Scales for setting drags??
Posted By: PE Pete
Subject: Scales for setting drags??
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 2:06pm
|
Hi all, so have decided to pay a bit more attention to drag settings and am looking for recommendations and seeing what's out there. Strictly for setting drags so What's best digital or old school mechanical, different brands etc. Any input and offers appreciated. Cheers Pete ------------- Tight lines PE Pete |
Replies:
Posted By: McRooster
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 2:09pm
|
Posted By: PE Pete
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 2:16pm
|
Andrew that looks like a bit of me . For sales in NZ? ------------- Tight lines PE Pete |
Posted By: McRooster
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 2:27pm
|
Not for sale in NZ, Japan Tackle have them $72 usd + postage |
Posted By: Structfab
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 2:27pm
| I use a bucket of water for drag settings. 1 litre = 1kg. So If I'm setting 8kg strike, I'll load up 8 litres, and get drag set to where I can lift it slowly, but slips when start pumping it up and down. |
Posted By: PE Pete
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 2:37pm
|
Hey Deane well I did ask🤣👍 Have you ever checked that theory mate? As in put scales on it after your bucket procedure? ------------- Tight lines PE Pete |
Posted By: Structfab
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 2:48pm
I've only double checked the weight of the bucket I'm lifting with scales, to make sure it's right. I've checked drag again with 1/2 litre more, and it slips, take 1/2 litre out, it holds. In short to your answer...no. But I don't see how you'd get any difference. I don't have scales that gauge the max weight hit, so it becomes tricky to do by yourself with normal scales. |
PE Pete wrote:Posted By: Structfab
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 2:56pm
| reckon it's quicker and easier than using drag scales, you don't have to keep checking and re-setting the scales |
Posted By: McRooster
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 2:59pm
|
The main problem I can see is that it takes more effort to overcome the friction of the drag washers to get it slipping than it will sustain once its moving and the problem should only get worse the closer you get to max drag. Some how the drag would need to be measured once the spool is rotating if you wanted to get an accurate measurement. Depends how accurate you want to get and if it really matters at the end of the day.
|
Posted By: wanabe
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 3:03pm
|
A set of good fishing scales does the trick, if you put your rod into a rod holder attach the scales to the line and walk slowly away from the rod you will get a pull of drag setting , resetting the line if you walk away faster it will create a higher setting, likewise if you run it will be even higher, 1/3rd line class if you walk with an average pace it will get you close to the drag required, and your line should not break as most reels have factory settings to only go to 1/2 line weight at sunset If you drop a bucket off water from a deck it will head down fast giving you a reading, and then lift the rod and you will get a different reading, so up to you what you use to test and how you do it. go to rebels or the like and buy some Berkley, shimano or Pakula scales, they will all do it |
Posted By: Structfab
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 3:04pm
that's true, as I experience this when I use the bucket test, you can just get an initial lift of a weight, before it starts to slip. In pratical terms, standing on the boat with rod in hand, bucket on kids tramp. Lift 10kg, initial drag's enough to get her off the tramp, but then once the drags moving, that 10kg slowly descends to the ground.....now you know what I get up to on bad weather days
 |
Posted By: PE Pete
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 3:36pm
|
Good onya boys some good info and suģgestions .Appreciate it 👍 ------------- Tight lines PE Pete |
Posted By: muchalls
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 4:35pm
|
Posted By: KikBac
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 5:21pm
|
Dive weights are good. Load up to the desired weight and adjust drag until you can just lift weight off floor with minimal slip.
|
Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 5:34pm
|
A good set of electronic bagage/ fish scales...set as suggested by wanabe,, then see what it is direct off the end rod.. for each rod reel set up. That way when you lift them out of the rod rack, you can set up simply and quickly on the bench. Caution when finding/ setting intial the drag levels. 1/ The fuller the spool the more drag.. watch when winding a fish in.. you may had added a little more drag when the rod has been low pulling line off, then as the spool fills up so does the drag increase. 2/ the angle the rod is at...combine with the above also.. higher the rod higher the drag...so when spool starts to fill the rod also gets a little higher... |
Posted By: Legacy
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 5:56pm
I thought the drag increased as the spool emptied and not the other way round or am I just reading what you've written the wrong way ? |
Posted By: BlindFishingNZ
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 6:10pm
|
This is correct, the emptier the spool, the higher the drag, not so as above! Right about rod though!
|
Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 6:19pm
|
On a boat winch, MT spool less effort to pull .. as 1st layer comes on effort increases about 1/3, 2 layers just over 1/2 3 layers... And they are rated on MT spool.. Yes think have around wrong way... thanks for the correction. |
Posted By: MATTOO
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 6:23pm
|
Steps, I think has made a mistake here. Stronger drag , with less on the spool. Use whatever tool you like, but corroborate the measure meant with at last one more measurement tool. Many gauges have adjustments. Get a known or verified weight to set your tools. Drags are somewhat tricky, It can depend on the type of force applied and , A range of angles and functions. Whatever you use, confirm your tool measuremental accuracy and keep your measurements as similar as possible. Do three of each at least to get a percentage gauge. It is a coarse style but in terms of fishing unless light gear, will suffice. ------------- Just cruising in my now sweetas pimped out Southern 755 HT0! |
Posted By: muchalls
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 11:11pm
|
All for putting the rod in a holder, and pulling line evenly to simulate active drag from a swimming fish. Drags are basically friction, static loading with weights may give an unreliable high result due to 'stiction' |
Posted By: Snappa Geoff
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2017 at 5:29am
| If your setting Drags precisely for the fish your targeting, wot happens when something bigger jumps on? You end up over spooling, birds nest. with myself Snap Fish'n set them so if a 25-30 lb Da hits you don't want a mess, which iv'e lost a few in the past going to light. I do it all by feel, and adjust drag to size of fish when hooked.... |
Posted By: PE Pete
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2017 at 7:37am
|
Hey Geoff, yeah was thinking more about setting up game reels and reels I use when up at the three kings. TBH I have only ever done it by feel for my snapper and local kingly fishing. BUT a mate has done some reasonably controlled bench tests of some popular braid brands attempting to simulate shock loading which occurs at the strike. This test has revealed that manufacturers stated breaking strain is based on a test protocol that doesn't represent real world shock impact on the braided mainline. In essence real world breaking value of most if not all braids is significantly lower than specified tested breaking strain WHEN tested in a way that is more representative of the shock impact of initial contact of a large fish. That's not to say the manufacturers are lieing to us they report on results from their test protocols. When we discussed his findings we realised the importance of a few things we all already knew. 1: Smooth drag no sudden sticking creating more shock loading potential. 2: When targeting big model kings or any big pelagic using quality shock leader as opposed to FC will give you a bit more give in your system. I have been doing this up at the three kings for a couple of years now. On this second point I now only use FC for my litest fishing IE micro jigging and some slow pitch, the rest I now use shock leaders. Hope this explains my need to be more accurate with my drag settings 😁 ------------- Tight lines PE Pete |
Posted By: DenimViper
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2017 at 8:37am
| Yeah Clem did an interesting summary write up on the braid tests, its somewhere on FB. |
Posted By: PE Pete
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2017 at 8:44am
|
Mate talk about interesting 👍 Gonna be servicing my drag stacks a lot more frequently now. ------------- Tight lines PE Pete |
Posted By: Snappa Geoff
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2017 at 9:52pm
|
Posted By: laidbackdood
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2017 at 11:24pm
|
well....I always kept it simple......set the strike drag hard enough to be able to set the hook.......adjust drag to size of fish during early stage of fight....then leave it alone....i always set the initial drag by feel and then the ability to lift the fish without the drag slipping......and that was right for that fish......The only time i measured pre set drags was with my tlds which had a handy dial to set a range........then you have the drag stack heating up during the fight(which changes things)as well as line getting lower on the spool(as said above).....so making it a precise science is not going to happen pete....as long as you know what your breaking strain of your line is and what your max drag is of your reel...id focus more on the smoooooothness of your drag than exact drag amounts.....Teflon 0025 grease(best grease going for your drag washers imho).....Like you say the "shock leader" allows for some nice stretch in your set up.
------------- Once the idiots turn up..Im outta here...No time for Drama Queens. |
Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2017 at 7:30am
|
Im not high end game like you guys, but find the principles you use also apply to general fishing for a feed/ soft bait stray line on lighter gear. Same princples smaller weight numbers basically LBD above sort of sums it up for us After playing with rod in holder puling down with scales...then measuring drag directly off the end of the rod/ reel for each set up. Rather than "feel" just pull rod out of rack, lay on bench, approx 4 1/3 turns gets into ball park. The 10/15kg 6000 reels set close to 1.5 kg and lighter soft bait rigs to just under 1 kg Its enough to set a hook .. for general fish for a feed and the odd 15 lber.. If A snap pulls off the reel at that, you know its around 43 cm....1/4 turn If still pulls high 40s.. another 1/4 turn If still pulls low to mid 50s. Havent caught enough over 60s to make a reliable call... lol After rinsing rigs, let dry , wipe down etc, I have found the 4 x 1/3 turns is enough to release the drag on all the rods.. some more than the other.. having the same on all makes quick to set in ball park drag ... I do like min drag for each individual fish.. If a good fish pulls and drops the tip down, drag is substantially reduced, and run easyer.. 1/4 turn.. when the rod tip get high again, consistently then I usually ease up on the drag also... I only load the light gear, rods, reels , line, knots etc as much as required. I use to simply wind on the drag without thought.. like they often do on Angry fish....tended to loose/ drop a few more fish, espec those with weaker mouths, eg JD |
Posted By: Snappa Geoff
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2017 at 8:12am
| Another point on the Drag subject i use, once youv'e cleaned reels and rods after a day out and its time to store them in rod holders, shed or where ever unwind the drags on reels so there is no tension when stored. Was told it helps look after them. Don't know how much truth in it but mine have never let me down in all the years since iv'e been doing it. cheers.... |
Posted By: OuttaHere
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2017 at 10:45am
More important on lever-drag reels due to the mechanism by which pressure is applied to the drag washers (cupped belleville washers that will, over a very long time, go flat) as opposed to spinning reels and star-drags which more or less just use a threaded post to apply the pressure (some have bellevilles too but they're much larger and only really used to even out the pressure applied by the knob/star) If you have felt drags then leaving them under pressure can cause them to bind and get sticky; with greased carbon fibre it shouldn't be an issue, I would just give the line a short pull against the drag after not using the reel for a while just to get all the parts moving again.
|
Posted By: wanabe
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2017 at 11:21am
|
[QUOTE=Snappa Geoff]Another point on the Drag subject i use, once youv'e cleaned reels and rods after a day out and its time to store them in rod holders, shed or where ever unwind the drags on reels so there is no tension when stored. Was told it helps look after them. Don't know how much truth in it but mine have never let me down in all the years since iv'e been doing it. cheers....
[/QUOTE Only thing to say about that is the drag must be set on strike when washing the reel before storing it as if in the free spool position the water can get into the drag system, This is all pretty simple there is no set rule but when setting drags go 1/3 the line class for strike and then most reels will only go to 1/2 when on sunset |
Posted By: Nirai
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2017 at 11:33am
Must be the middle of winter  ------------- "Gunrunner" Surtees 610 Game Fisher current *"Double Barrel" Seacat 635 "Good Riddance!" *"Seriola" Surtees 485 CC Retired with honours! |
Posted By: Mad Brian
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2017 at 1:08pm
Buy,Sell & Exchange what?? Seems to have gotten quite complicated  agree with Nirai. Bit like Game season no fish being caught lots of chatter
|
Posted By: PE Pete
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2017 at 2:17pm
|
🤣🤣👍 ------------- Tight lines PE Pete |
Posted By: home bouy
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2017 at 8:38pm
| Nirai and mad Brian. Is that a bad thing??? What's the point of even making a comment like that |
Posted By: Nirai
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2017 at 6:47am
Take yourself a little less seriously home bouy? It is the middle of winter! You would prefer * Mods best shift this into game fishing forum. It's morphed into a drag setting discussion, that's been covered many times over including techo Japanese drag setting tool & could be found by using forum search function. Agreed that's heavy going as search function has to wade through a lot of off season duplicated posts. Opinions are like arseholes everybody has one. ------------- "Gunrunner" Surtees 610 Game Fisher current *"Double Barrel" Seacat 635 "Good Riddance!" *"Seriola" Surtees 485 CC Retired with honours! |
Posted By: DenimViper
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2017 at 11:13am
|
its actually spring guys
|
Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2017 at 11:36am
|
Spring weather is more unsettled.. its the cusp between the 2 main seasons Reading discussions like these, its more sharing of ideas concepts.. not a full on right or wrong way. It is noticeable thu , those who have actually read the instruction booklets  ......eg leaving drags on till reel has dried after rinsing off.. and releasing on storage.. its similar to dont leave hand brakes on , espec on trailers when being stored....Always willing to learn new ideas .. methods Is that not what the forums are about? Often wondered thu... just one of those abstract thoughts that pops up while cleaning servicing the reels.. if possible?? "Got a big Snap on... can feel the head shakes" Turns out a big KY or something and the drag is grabbing ???? |
Posted By: laidbackdood
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2017 at 5:39am
|
More to the original question =You know those scales you can buy from k mart......white clock face with red markings......Cheap and nasty but they do the job pete........I have had plenty of trouble with digital scales(prefer a spring to a bloody battery).....buy those and spend your money on something else mate.
GO THE ALL BLACKS.  ------------- Once the idiots turn up..Im outta here...No time for Drama Queens. |
Posted By: waynorth
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2017 at 9:51am
|
I'm with Structfab & Kikbac when it comes to game rigs with lever drags - set them at home then leave the preset alone on the water. Not quite as easy with star drags, unless you have one with the 'click' position like some of the old Shimano baitcasters had - do any modern star drags have this feature now ? For convenience I made these up years ago. Took a couple of hours, but now a quick way of presetting the drag with the line running through the guides & the rod with a working bend. Weights of 330g, 660g, 1kg, 2kg, 3kg, & 5 kg gives you every setting for 1-37kg if you preset to 1/3 line class.  ------------- treat fish like fish |
Posted By: Steps
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2017 at 4:17pm
=You know those scales you can buy from k mart......white clock face
with red markings......Cheap and nasty but they do the job pete .......Had 4 sets of those.. 'gifts from grandchildren and ppl using them for weighing bags for travelling. Actually check them... as mentioned above 1L water= 1kg They are WAY the hell off.. and right thru the range.. and im talking kgs out... Others have found the same.. including for baggage flying over seas.. A set of digitals, a spray with lanoline and keep in a zip bag |