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Bow Hunting black stingray - Ban it.

Printed From: The Fishing Website
Category: Saltwater Fishing
Forum Name: Saltwater Flyflingers
Forum Description: A forum for saltwater fly fishing enthusiasts
URL: http://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=114372
Printed Date: 20 Aug 2017 at 4:00pm


Topic: Bow Hunting black stingray - Ban it.
Posted By: Millsy
Subject: Bow Hunting black stingray - Ban it.
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2015 at 7:32pm
I will say outright, I dont agree with this practice. It is hardly a catch and release sport and says more about the person killing the animal than the activity they participate in.

http://nzbowhunters.co.nz/public_html/NEW2012/black-stingray/" rel="nofollow - http://nzbowhunters.co.nz/public_html/NEW2012/black-stingray/

The picture below is not from a NZ site but there are plenty like the one below that are.




It may be different if they were killing them for food but this is purely for bragging rights, it is pathetic.

Stingray are seen as culturally significant in NZ (and Polynesia generally) and are often portrayed as kaitiaki of certain areas. 

Shame on the NZ Bow Hunters Society, this is the 21st century. This type of killing/culling does nothing for your sport or hunters image in NZ at all.




Replies:
Posted By: Muppet
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2015 at 8:24pm
Yeah pretty darn dumb that.


Posted By: Kevin.S
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2015 at 9:21pm
The only good thing about that list is that most of it dates from 20-30 years ago, I'd like to think people have moved on since then.  Although I did see one recent date on the list, so some people are still chasing them.  Lots of shark species on their web site too.  Don't really understand why you would kill something for the fun of it, fine if you are going to eat it but just such a waste otherwise.  I understand the carp hunting where they are trying to get rid of a pest, but these other species should be left alone.  Like you say, it's hardly catch and release when you shoot them with an arrow.


Posted By: Weemandan
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2015 at 10:10pm
Mutha fukers......... Senseless destruction for what........ Makes me sick. At least the commies are raping the sea for money......


Posted By: rudini33
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2015 at 12:11am
Didn't know fu... idiots like that exist in NZ!! Angry


Posted By: 8wt
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2015 at 1:11am
I was a member of the NZBHS for quite some time, shot a fair few deer (13) and things, which were all eaten, with bows and had a lot of fun, very exciting way to hunt. I attended the annual tournament once in Katikati and, as a Southlander,  was taken out after rays, this was about 2003. At that time rays were listed as a species you could "claim" toward gaining certain awards but very few guys targeted them once they'd claimed one and it was sort of only a Tauranga "thing". I did shoot a few that day, was a bit of a different experience but I wouldn't say it did much for me and did seem senseless. I know many of the guys on that list and they're good blokes, its just like a lot of things that we did in years gone by that doesn't seem right nowadays.
 I havent been a member for over a decade and not sure if rays are still listed but I very much doubt many are taken these days. I dont condone it, wouldn't do it now, but wouldn't think its much of an issue either. I wouldn't judge the NZBHS, or NZBS as they are now, too harshly on this one.


Posted By: Fraser Hocks
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2015 at 7:59am
Yea fairly senseless hey?  I think as 8wt said almost all of the records are from many years ago.  A different culture around hunting and fishing back then.  I remember doing ultralight game fishing back then.  A practice I now see as annoying a fish to the boat and something I defiantly wouldn't do any more.  There is however one that was claimed last year?  

Also notice that eagle rays are listed but as with black stingrays the records are from many years ago. 

That been said their latest magazine has a photo of a proud hunter with a ray on the cover?  Very uncool!! Thumbs Down  http://nzbowhunters.co.nz/public_html/NEW2012/magazine-2/latest-magazine/


Posted By: Daniel K
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2015 at 11:08am
At least those Chinese from the fresh as you get thread eat their catch. 


Posted By: Big Manly Yaka
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2015 at 1:09pm
Thats a strange cover for a hunters magazine - along with the Stingray there is a Kea, Penguin, Morepork and a very cute looking piglet....? 


Posted By: lb-softbaiter
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2015 at 3:53pm
walk down muriwai after surfcasters who make no effort to return, you will be shocked

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http://www.facebook.com/groups/hibiscus.coast.fishing/


Posted By: Fraser Hocks
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2015 at 5:01pm
Yea id suggest FAR more are killed senselessly by the dregs of society fishing than by bowhunters? 


Posted By: FISHBYFLY
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2015 at 6:41pm
Yip,
it happens,
 
yip,
There retards,
 
Yip, Yip, Yip.
Buggered if im gonna defend such behavior.
 
Bragging rights is the only motivation.
There just the poor mans version of 'Hunters' that pay to kill  [Lets face it Tame]
animals in 'game reserves'.
 
Its not like you have to stalk or be cautious with a Stingray.
Wouldn't be surprised to soon be seeing selfies  of dead  whalesharks and sunfish with frigging Arrows stickin out of them.
 
 
 


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By Fly, Nothing Else,Just Fly


Posted By: Weemandan
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2015 at 11:02pm
Yep, it was a while ago, and the anus's like the surfcasters and net fishermen that leave rays and sharks etc dead on the beach are pricks.
I think bow hunting is great and mates do it for deer that they eat etc.
like everything, my big issue is the senseless killing and waste. Doesn't matter what it is, or how long ago or recent. End of.


Posted By: Millsy
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2015 at 11:26am
Haven't read too many replies. I have this to add...

Yes some of the records are still old however still appears on their web page which would suggest that they condone killing of rays for trophy status. Either that or they are just creating false idols. Either way, it is small appendage type stuff.

I have contacted local Kaumatua and informed them of the issue with the NZBHS. Hopefully they can send a clear message that it is not tolerated in the Manukau Harbour at least. I would encourage people who fish other harbours to do the same via their local iwi.

On a personal front, it isn't tolerated by me. I did ask one bow hunter standing at Orpheus Point that was waiting for a black ray to swim past so he could kill it to leave quietly. My approach was subtle I can assure you, I can be very diplomatic at times.

Hopefully, these types of men (and it is mainly men) are a dying breed in NZ.

Be nice if this was the unanimous decision of Fishing.net.nz but it is so closely related to spear fishing, I doubt they would be on board. You can still find recent pictures of Southern Bluefin tuna (on the critically endangered list) strung up for bragging rights around this place with plenty of "hand clap" smilies to boot.

Thanks those supporters.

On a positive note; The Manukau starting to lead the way in helping marine biodiversity.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/74213535/stingrays-saved-from-death-in-onehunga-bay-lagoon-by-new-grate" rel="nofollow - http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/74213535/stingrays-saved-from-death-in-onehunga-bay-lagoon-by-new-grate

Stingrays saved from death in Onehunga Bay Lagoon by new grate







 


Posted By: wolfie5
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2015 at 10:13pm
Yeah - just because the target is a fish somehow these sort "think" that killing them doesn't rate a blip on the radar.

I'd rate these j*rks as way down there with set netters. Maybe there should be a size limit or daily limit on rays to help protect them from these Neanderthals who kill for blood lust.


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The Auckland Swoffer
www.AucklandSwoffer.wordpress.com


Posted By: Snuffit.
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2015 at 11:47am
Jeez that wanton killing stuff is pretty sickening. 

That looks like a forum member saving the ray in the photo...


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http://snuffitramblings.blogspot.co.nz/" rel="nofollow - My blog


Posted By: Bushkid2
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2015 at 6:35pm
Yup thats me Nick. Bushkid saving the world one ray at a time.
As for bow hunting black rays there is no challenge, you could add other easy targets like sheep, labradors and bait fisherman.


Posted By: red rooster
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2015 at 7:38pm
who says they are not eating them ??? 


Posted By: DeVille Incarnate
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2015 at 9:45pm
If anyone is THAT hungry that they gotta eat a fricken stingray, please feel free to drop round to my place and I'll fix up a grand feast for you - snapper fresh from Countdown, gurnard fresh from Countdown, blue cod.... you get the idea. I'll also throw in a couple steaks, some choice Mad Butcher sossies, fresh ciabatta and a salad. Hell you can even guzzle a beer from my fridge, I mean, what are mates for after all?

Go 'hunt' something that can at least bite, scratch, kick, gore, claw, stomp or maul you. Something that can at least pit its senses against yours. Something that can at least be a teeny weeny bit challenging for your 'manliness'.

Ever heard of 'shooting fish in a barrel'? Shooting stingrays with a bow = same thing.



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Approach with extreme caution - I NEVER look where my back cast is going....


Posted By: red rooster
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2015 at 10:11pm
You don't eat eggs then I take it ?_


Posted By: FISHBYFLY
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2015 at 5:08pm
Chicken Bow hunting!
Obviously only while there roosting in their Pens.
 


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By Fly, Nothing Else,Just Fly


Posted By: Millsy
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2015 at 6:22pm
Looks like it is still practiced throughout NZ. Tauranga Habour is a popular spot.

A "trophy shot" from another NZ web site



 

Claimed to have also been involved in a successful "hunt" of a 64 kg short tailed black. Take a bow hero just don't leave your car parked anywhere around here.




Posted By: 300wsm
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2015 at 7:15pm
[QUOTE=Millsy]Looks like it is still practiced throughout NZ. Tauranga Habour is a popular spot.

A "trophy shot" from another NZ web site



 

Claimed to have also been involved in a successful "hunt" of a 64 kg short tailed black. Take a bow hero just don't leave your car parked anywhere around here.


[/QUOTE

What you goin to do to his car? considering he is doing nothing illegal! 


Posted By: Millsy
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2015 at 7:43pm
Was only a matter of time...



LOL


Posted By: 300wsm
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2015 at 7:53pm
[QUOTE=Millsy]Was only a matter of time...



LOL
[/QUOTE

what do you mean by that? i just asked what you were going to do,



Posted By: red rooster
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2015 at 8:58pm
some good fillets there. nice photo


Posted By: the angler
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2015 at 7:47am
call the fashion police , that guys wearing crocs .


Posted By: 300wsm
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2015 at 6:33pm
[QUOTE=300wsm][QUOTE=Millsy]Was only a matter of time...



LOL
[/QUOTE

what do you mean by that? i just asked what you were going to do,

[/QUOTE


???? you forgot to answer millsy!


Posted By: FISHBYFLY
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2015 at 7:14pm
 Steinlager tshirt/sweat pant  combo,[The 'Ray Hunt Range 2015']
 
coming to your favourite Hunting store this Christmas.
 
 
Bet ya he owns a jetski LOL


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By Fly, Nothing Else,Just Fly


Posted By: FishMan
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2015 at 7:26am
LOLLOL
I did notice they were Warehouse Crocs too  LOL


Posted By: Fraser Hocks
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2015 at 9:18am
You know the difference between a jetski and a vacuum cleaner? 

With the vacuum cleaner the dirt-bag is on the inside LOL


Posted By: wolfie5
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2015 at 12:44pm
Originally posted by Craig Worthington Craig Worthington wrote:

LOLLOL
I did notice they were Warehouse Crocs too  LOL


Have to drop them as your SWF footwear sponsor now Craig ...Wink


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The Auckland Swoffer
www.AucklandSwoffer.wordpress.com


Posted By: FishMan
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2015 at 1:51pm
LOL
Nah, I fork out the big money for the overpriced real deal. Unfortunately they are so much better than the cheapies (try $80 instead of $8 Confused). It pays off when you're wading in salt water for long hours.


Posted By: cirrus
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2015 at 3:04pm
Originally posted by Millsy Millsy wrote:

Looks like it is still practiced throughout NZ. Tauranga Habour is a popular spot.

A "trophy shot" from another NZ web site



Claimed to have also been involved in a successful "hunt" of a 64 kg short tailed black. Take a bow hero just don't leave your car parked anywhere around here.




Thats an Eagle Ray. Supposed to be the most intelligent of the rays.




Posted By: Mullins
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2015 at 3:35pm
They mate for life too.


Posted By: Devon
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2015 at 4:51pm
Does seem a bit of an odd thing to do... 


Posted By: Mullins
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2015 at 5:07pm
Tell me about it.....


Posted By: FISHBYFLY
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2015 at 6:26pm
this threads been awesome,
everyones had a good chance to vent their pent up frustrations Thumbs Up
 
Now,
Looking like thell be a chance of a wind free dawn on Sunday,
iwanna see ya all at ya favourite kingy hauntCool


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By Fly, Nothing Else,Just Fly


Posted By: imortfly
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2015 at 8:02pm
These photos were taken in 2011. you are judging someone you do not know.
if these  photos are not removed within 24hrs I will contact my lawyer.
This is a breach of privacy. you have not obtain permission to post these pictures. and then slag about the person,
 
I will not take this lightly.  you have been warned......
 


Posted By: Grunta
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2015 at 9:05pm
Originally posted by imortfly imortfly wrote:

These photos were taken in 2011. you are judging someone you do not know....
Are they public domain or not? If not where have they come from? In the first instance you are welcome to contact the person that posted them initially or you can e-mail me with the details - [email protected] and I will look into it. Please ensure you confirm exactly where the image has come from and precisely why the person posting that image has no right to use it.  Thanks.


Posted By: Downtown
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2015 at 9:14pm

Geez just because someone made fun of your crocs Cry



Posted By: DeVille Incarnate
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2015 at 11:28pm
Crackup Michael!!

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Approach with extreme caution - I NEVER look where my back cast is going....


Posted By: FishMan
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2015 at 5:44am
Okay, in order to be fair to the person who unknowingly appeared in Millsy's thread I have modified the post so that the person in the picture can't be recognised.
 
A good lesson perhaps to be careful about putting pics on the internet.
 
 


Posted By: FISHBYFLY
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2015 at 4:42pm
Wether it be posted in 2011,1911 or frigging 1811,
 
one thing will never change,
It will still be a photo of a slow moving, poor visioned, crab eating, no toothed creature , minding its own business , Now with a Bow Bolt stuck in it.
 


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By Fly, Nothing Else,Just Fly


Posted By: Mullins
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2015 at 4:54pm
Loving the hypocrisy in here Big smile


Posted By: red rooster
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2015 at 7:09pm
Originally posted by FISHBYFLY FISHBYFLY wrote:

Wether it be posted in 2011,1911 or frigging 1811,
 
one thing will never change,
It will still be a photo of a slow moving, poor visioned, crab eating, no toothed creature , minding its own business , Now with a Bow Bolt stuck in it.
 
what unlike the ferocious trout an ky the fly boys catch lol


Posted By: whippersnapper
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2015 at 7:57pm
So are we still okay with shooting/killing small brained non bipedal creatures so long as we consume them?

I just don't know anymore....to fish or not to fish?

I could totally understand some of the comments in this thread if they were posted on PETA's website, but this is a fishing forum.

Glass houses, stones, pots, kettles etc........


Posted By: 8wt
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2015 at 8:58pm
Originally posted by whippersnapper whippersnapper wrote:

So are we still okay with shooting/killing small brained non bipedal creatures so long as we consume them?

I just don't know anymore....to fish or not to fish?

I could totally understand some of the comments in this thread if they were posted on PETA's website, but this is a fishing forum.

Glass houses, stones, pots, kettles etc........

Well put mate. These guys are very much aligned to our philosophies, in fact, Rays aside, bowhunting is probably a bigger step in the challenge stakes if bow v rifle hunting was to be compared to conventional v fly fishing. Rather than stick it in these guys backs, why not politely get hold of NZBS President Graeme Warrender, a top bloke, and share your concerns.

There are way more deserving targets out there to sling sh&t at than Bowhunters.


Posted By: Millsy
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2015 at 7:08am
Well, I've had calls from as far as Invercargil about this disease. 

Without reading all the replies I will retort to the last reply from 300wsm before this thread likely got off track. I don't condone taking the law into ones owns hands. What an interesting response from that person however. Says more about their mindset rather than my own.

I will add a modern bow is a weapon. I wouldn't suggest confronting anyone who is carrying a weapon and engaging in discussions of ethics and morals. They appear t be a passionate macho bunch. Would hate them to "hunt" me down.

On the issue of legality; Many of our modern laws have come about because of ethical or moral reasons. This goes back centuries. Most of society already has a good dose of both of those and can differentiate between right and wrong. There is a percentage however that need to be lead by the nose and for them we have to put in place laws and define things as "legal" and "illegal". To put it simply. You are correct 300wsm killing short tail rays, eagle rays, some shark species and all manor of other living creatures to somehow prove you are a better than the next like minded person who participates in the same sad "sport" as you is not illegal... ...yet. It would be nice it however if people could start making the right choice of their own volition rather than being spoon feed by the rest of society at every turn.

I guess some NZBS members and the people they influence have made their stand on "that" side of the fence for now.

The majority of bow hunters may well be nice guys and gals, they may all be. Reality is however, it only takes a few to change that perception on both sides. Uncheck the "notify me of replies", point has been made. Maybe 20 people are now aware of this practice and I have roughly the same amount of new enemies... ...haters gonna hate, whaty ya do ay.








Posted By: flygimp
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2016 at 9:37pm
On a positive note... Seeing people with special needs being let outside for a bit of fresh air warms my heart.


Posted By: DeVille Incarnate
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2016 at 12:26am
Oh Brent....you merciless brute you! Gosh golly have you no shame...??



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Approach with extreme caution - I NEVER look where my back cast is going....


Posted By: FISHBYFLY
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2016 at 5:06pm
GoldLOL

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By Fly, Nothing Else,Just Fly


Posted By: Snoop
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2016 at 5:27pm
Interesting topic. I'm a spearo - and really enjoy seeing the old stingrays and eagle rays in action. They are pretty majestic, and will relax around you, provided you are chilled around them.  Part of the fun of the dive. Back in the 60s, spearo comps often used to be measured by weight, and stingrays (massive ones) were on the list.  It was a tragic waste, big, graceful stingrays hung on the wharf, then dumped, and this did no favours, probably in the minds in the older generation as to the ethics of spearos.  The spearfishing comps these days are selective in terms of targeting sustainable fish.  Recently even golden snapper have dropped off some comps - although their stocks are fine, they dwell in schools and shallow (25-30m deep) spots soon get shot up.  So, they were dropped.

Recently I purchased a compound bow, and have started chasing deer in the hills.  Being partial to any type of competition I had a look at the NZ Bow Hunter's Society web site and their Master Bow Hunters award

Here's a link http://nzbowhunters.co.nz/public_html/NEW2012/awards/how-the-award-system-works/ 

It's a cool system in that you have to shoot a wide range of animals and critters (land and sea based to earn the title).  The idea being to build your basic skill base before tackling big game.  Trust me, there are some pretty talented bow hunters out there from what I've discovered.

But, unfortunately the sharks and stingrays on the list don't sit well with me.  I think as a hunter, really, anything shot should be harvested and eaten. I've eaten char-grilled sticky sweet stingray served on pandan leaf in Malaysia, and it was simply outstanding.  So, it is harvestable. Mako sounds yummy smoked from what I've heard.   

But really, sharks and rays, probably not the best look for the organisation.  It really comes down to are they making use of the resource, or just shooting it for the sake of it.  Which really isn't a good look in this day and age, and pretty senseless. Hopefully they look at it soon.  I, for one, wouldn't pursue the award based on this. 


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Axemen Spearfishing... "Putting the crap back into elite"
www.axemenspearfishing.co.nz


Posted By: o Neill
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2016 at 6:31pm
The eagle ray I found just dumped on the beach above the high tide mark yesterday did'nt sit well with me. Obviously caught the day before it had just been dumped. Eagles are not aggressive, flip it over in the shallows either cut the line or pliers to remove the hook and let it swim off after enjoying the fight, love it when they go airborne, but sad to see the fish just dumped. 


Posted By: flygimp
Date Posted: 16 Feb 2016 at 1:25pm
Originally posted by Snoop Snoop wrote:

Interesting topic. I'm a spearo - and really enjoy seeing the old stingrays and eagle rays in action. They are pretty majestic, and will relax around you, provided you are chilled around them.  Part of the fun of the dive. Back in the 60s, spearo comps often used to be measured by weight, and stingrays (massive ones) were on the list.  It was a tragic waste, big, graceful stingrays hung on the wharf, then dumped, and this did no favours, probably in the minds in the older generation as to the ethics of spearos.  The spearfishing comps these days are selective in terms of targeting sustainable fish.  Recently even golden snapper have dropped off some comps - although their stocks are fine, they dwell in schools and shallow (25-30m deep) spots soon get shot up.  So, they were dropped.

Recently I purchased a compound bow, and have started chasing deer in the hills.  Being partial to any type of competition I had a look at the NZ Bow Hunter's Society web site and their Master Bow Hunters award

Here's a link http://nzbowhunters.co.nz/public_html/NEW2012/awards/how-the-award-system-works/ 

It's a cool system in that you have to shoot a wide range of animals and critters (land and sea based to earn the title).  The idea being to build your basic skill base before tackling big game.  Trust me, there are some pretty talented bow hunters out there from what I've discovered.

But, unfortunately the sharks and stingrays on the list don't sit well with me.  I think as a hunter, really, anything shot should be harvested and eaten. I've eaten char-grilled sticky sweet stingray served on pandan leaf in Malaysia, and it was simply outstanding.  So, it is harvestable. Mako sounds yummy smoked from what I've heard.   

But really, sharks and rays, probably not the best look for the organisation.  It really comes down to are they making use of the resource, or just shooting it for the sake of it.  Which really isn't a good look in this day and age, and pretty senseless. Hopefully they look at it soon.  I, for one, wouldn't pursue the award based on this. 


This is a fantastic post, well considered and insightful - right on the money with 'harvest what you hunt' policy. Clap

Personally I love eagle rays - they're real characters. I've had them on the fly rod as well as come up, inspect and make love to my sea droug! Hard case. Killers whales love them too - scoop them up like bluebird chips - amazing too watch.


Posted By: Millsy
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2016 at 9:15am
The rot continues. Sent to me last week, Tauranga Harbour.

This pic is going up the food chain. The locals on that island in the background are not happy.




Posted By: widerange
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2016 at 9:38am
A mate who lives in marlborough was telling me he entered a local fishing comp and couldn't believe when punters were being cheered and commended for winning sections of the comp for hanging up big stingrays and seven gillers.
Having grown up heavily involved in sportfishing around tuts he thought such practices had become extinct last century.
Not everywhere evidently


Posted By: Snuffit.
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2016 at 9:58am
If that's Rangiwaea Island I can promise you that I'd not like to get offside with them. 

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Posted By: Pole Dancer
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2016 at 10:31am
Still very common practice  in my area as is Kingfish on Rays with a bow.

I don;t like it and believe there has been even more incidence since the shallows have been promoted by us and prominent fishing TV programs. I believe it is at least partly responsible for the harder fishing we have had at this end of the harbour compared to the Southern end over the past couple of season.

Having said that, it is a legal activity and they are, for whatever reason, enjoying their sport as are we. Our judgement doesn't mean much, if there is a real issue with this practice then it should be brought to the attention of the appropriate lawmakers and banned. If not we simply have to accept it, not like it, and get on with things.


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http://www.clarkreid.co.nz" rel="nofollow - www.clarkreid.co.nz    FFF Certified Casting Instructor / Umpqua Designer Tier


Posted By: Fraser Hocks
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2016 at 11:54am
Originally posted by Pole Dancer Pole Dancer wrote:

Having said that, it is a legal activity and they are, for whatever reason, enjoying their sport as are we. Our judgement doesn't mean much, if there is a real issue with this practice then it should be brought to the attention of the appropriate lawmakers and banned. If not we simply have to accept it, not like it, and get on with things.


Hate to admit it, but your spot on there Clark.  I may see it as barbaric and wasteful, but to suggest it be stopped just because we don't like it makes us no better than those fruitcakes from PETA.





Posted By: Millsy
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2016 at 4:06pm
Exposure and activism have been the gateways for many law changes in NZ. This forum has it's uses, one of those being exposure. Amazing how many people had absolutely no idea this was going on.



Posted By: FISHBYFLY
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2016 at 5:38pm
Yip, I saw those clowns last weekend up the north end,
from a distance I thought it was some flydudes,
 
then they got within 200metres of me,stop to a halt
saw the 'Hunter' basicly aim  straight out of the bow.
Vertical shot, prey would have been at most 2 metres from bow.
Fire.
#2 guy throws a plastic float overboard,,,,,,,
ray must of died instantly cause they had it on hand pretty quick.
Couldn't see what happened to prey.
Pretty sure they didn't keep it, hard to no.
Then fired up motor.
And buggerd of to tanners ramp.
 
Now if the world is gonna class that as 'Sport'
I NEVER  want to be addressed as a 'Sportsman', mailto:F@#$%KN" rel="nofollow - F@#$%KN period!
 
On a Brighter Note,
Wasn't a bad day out,
Landed a  of rat,dropped another, Nothing exciting
Both fish I found by hanging around spots were 'Black Winged' Gulls were sitting in groups on the waters edge, standing on the ready.
Not the first time ive encountered that with those gulls.
Buggered if I no how they they can predict a kingy is  about.
maybe its the congregation of baitfish or viseversa, pretty cool anyways.
 


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By Fly, Nothing Else,Just Fly


Posted By: Millsy
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2017 at 4:00pm
There has been progress on this front. If you follow the Tauranga Fishing FB page you may have seen the post there regarding this appalling behavior.

It appears that the issue has been taken up with the president of the NZBHS Graeme Warrender. He is calling an AGM this coming Friday to discuss dropping black rays and possibly even eels from their "points" system. Two animals that have cultural significance in NZ, is it any wonder they are not popular.

What it apparent from info inside the NZBHS is that animals are killed for points. I'll leave you all to think about that one.

What is clear is that they have been caught out and called out. This practice is no longer acceptable. To simply say they [the NZBHS] have no control of their members or people outside their "club" is also unacceptable. They have portrayed this activity and even glorified it for years. To simply walk away now is a cop out. They need to make it crystal clear this is not acceptable, remove the pictures and their "hall of shame" records from their webpage.

Good on Mr Warrender for instigating this change from within his organisation. Top marks chap.

To all those who supported this thread and change, thanks. 

We will watch how this develops. I have heard a certain TV program may be running a story on it.






Posted By: Millsy
Date Posted: 16 Feb 2017 at 11:38am

Here is the latest: (3rd hand)

Graeme Warrender has spoken with the researcher who is tagging black short tail rays in Tauranga Harbour. He has agreed to stop NZBHS members from killing short tail rays in the short term until that research is completed.

This is only temporary and ONLY for the Tauranga harbour.

This is a soft reply.

Which mean the fight continues. Hard to believe that in 2017 New Zealanders will kill animals endemic to NZ waters to gain points as a means to become "masters".

If you feel strongly about opposing this practice make your point heard. Contact your local MP and whoever else you can.

If you'd like to speak to Graeme Warrender directly PM me for his cell phone number.



Posted By: FishMan
Date Posted: 16 Feb 2017 at 3:20pm
That is crazy Angry How can anyone randomly stick an arrow in a stingray and not feel some level of guilt? There are plenty of non-native pests hanging around our hills for them to practice on. Why do they have to shoot rays?

Thanks for bringing it to our attention Millsy.


Posted By: Virtualgamble
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2017 at 10:24am
Lots of good points here all round.  Really appreciate you chasing this up Millsy. 
I'd like to see it discussed at the Tauranga meet up.  I have suggested conservation as a night-time topic and this would fit in under that but so far I have just harassed Matto to act as an adjudicator for control for a range of topics - I am not sure who is really the puppet master for the event?
Clearly fly fishermen and women have a vested interest in seeing it stop so I wonder if some sort of covert operation is required here?  Now, before your imagination goes crazy (mine did), what about getting the researcher to present to us as a start and should we see if there is a way we can sponsor further research (or legasea)?   
 
There might be no chance the researcher could speak to a NZBHS meeting but I could be wrong.
 
Certainly hunters abroad consider themselves conservationists and have a sense of ethics - not saying NZers don't, but I wonder if there is anything to be learnt there?  I think in particular because it is native species in North America that are hunted, the ethics are strong to sustain stocks. 
 
It would make a great short film piece too - some fly fishing on the flats, sea-scape, music and boating bling with a more serious theme of sharing knowledge about how we can conserve and restore habitats and fisheries.  The flashy festival films are nice but I find some leave me feeling a little hollow. 
 
Anyway I hope we can discuss in Tauranga. 


Posted By: Millsy
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2017 at 1:06pm
Originally posted by Virtualgamble Virtualgamble wrote:

 
There might be no chance the researcher could speak to a NZBHS meeting but I could be wrong.
 
The "researcher" has spoken directly to Graeme Warrender president of the NZHBS from what I understand. After all that has been conveyed Mr Warrender still thinks this is acceptable in NZ but has agreed to stop killing rays as part of their NZBHS points system in Tauranga for now, as long as the research continues. How giving of him, like he has some sort of ownership.


Originally posted by Virtualgamble Virtualgamble wrote:

 
Certainly hunters abroad consider themselves conservationists and have a sense of ethics - not saying NZers don't, but I wonder if there is anything to be learnt there?  I think in particular because it is native species in North America that are hunted, the ethics are strong to sustain stocks. 
I have spoken to several international bow hunters who also have an interest in Fly Fishing, mainly state side. They all think this is appalling and not a good look for NZ or the activity of bow hunting. NZBHS is out on their own here.

Originally posted by Virtualgamble Virtualgamble wrote:

 
It would make a great short film piece too - some fly fishing on the flats, sea-scape, music and boating bling with a more serious theme of sharing knowledge about how we can conserve and restore habitats and fisheries.  The flashy festival films are nice but I find some leave me feeling a little hollow. 
Watch this space. 

NZBHS could have been the winner in this story. They could have come out and said, "we've sorry this has been the culture but we've changed and now realise the significance of these endemic fish species to NZ". Or something along those lines.

However, it appears ego or a lack of vision has stifled their shift into the 21st century. They would have to have thick skins to continue this practice. Good luck with that approach. 





Posted By: kaimaikid
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2017 at 7:56pm
Absolutely sickens me to the gut that anyone could go after stingrays, eaglerays, sunfish, ect to just kill and dump them for bragging rights

It would be so easy to get a viral thread going similar to the prick that shot the lion viral thread that would make all bowhunters look like scumbags - I don't want to do this until we hear back from their committee meeting tonight and get assurances that they are taking this seriously.

If anyone hears back from Graeme either tonight or tomorrow please let me know otherwise the first shots will be fired all over social media


Posted By: taurangatroutmaster
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2017 at 11:47am
i dont care if this is legal. if i see any of these scumbags doing this they wouldnt be getting there bow back, id make sure of that. lowlife scumbags killing magestic creatures for points, ffs.  people like this make me ashamed to be human


Posted By: kaimaikid
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2017 at 3:25pm
Spoke to Graeme Warrender, President for the NZ bow hunters soc. this morning, they had their committee meeting last night and he has assured me the black stingrays have now been removed from their points list and also said that they will be leaving stingrays alone in the Tauranga Harbour while the stingray study is underway.

The decision was met with a little opposition as in who the hell are we to demand this from them when we have only been fishing for kings from stingrays for 5 minutes when they have been doing it for the last 40 odd years.

So please if you see anyone targeting stingrays get a good photo of them, their boat name and any other details and post it here as chances are they won't be part of the bow hunters and its the best way to put pressure on the buggers


Posted By: Millsy
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2017 at 4:45pm
Yeah, it appears they couldn't make the decision for purely ethical reasons it was more that their hand was forced on the Tauranga issue.

I have no issue with them or spear hunters using that method to gather food (it's hardly a catch and release sport). The issue is with the intent behind the method i.e they kill as part of a points system and that is the culture they are putting out there. I guess we will have to wait a little while longer and continue the pressure to get this group into the 21st century.

I have contacted a number of iwi over this. It wont end here. NZBHS and bow hunters who engage in ray killing or eel killing will remain unpopular by the vast majority.






Posted By: wolfie5
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2017 at 10:36pm
Slightly off topic - but NZ should trade off beached pilot whales to the Japanese in exchange for stopping scientific whaling.
A win-win: they would probably end up with more tonnage for less effort and be saving DOC a lot of effort and money ...Wink


-------------
The Auckland Swoffer
www.AucklandSwoffer.wordpress.com


Posted By: FishMan
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2017 at 5:07am
Yes, completely off-topic, but the arguments between stopping whaling and stopping stingray spearing by bow hunters have some similarity. When told their actions are offensive and that they should stop the offending parties tend not to go quietly.  Very often the opposite happens.

In the case of the Japanese the argument involved potential severe loss of face if they capitulated- so of course it's not going to happen. Had the whaling issues been addressed at the Japanese level in a far different way better progress could have been made. 

Same deal with stingray bow hunting. I don't think forcing old clubs to change old rules is necessarily the answer. Just letting them quietly know that their actions are offensive probably works better in the long run.


Posted By: Millsy
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2017 at 8:52am
wolfie, on the whale front:

When Dolphins and Orca die their bodies are treated and apparently classed as toxic waste due to the amount of toxins they absorb over the course of their lifetime. Something I learnt last year on a course covering MARPOL (marine pollution prevention from ships etc)

We also know that Orca young are not living as long as they should because the milk they get from their mothers is also full of PCB toxins these days.

Just the world we as humans have created and the way it is. Ignorance will not amount to bliss in the end.

On the ray front; Asking bow hunters quietly didn't work Craig. Like it or not they started this culture [or anti-culture as some see it]. There is still strong opposition within NZBHS to removing eel and black rays from their list of target species. So how long this change lasts is unknown, hence the pressure will continue. 




Posted By: Jofly
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2017 at 8:29pm
I tend to agree with FishMan. A culture change needs to happen internally and may be a long process. That process starts with a realisation that their actions are not acceptable. This is something that appears to have been acknowledged on some level with the concessions already made on their part. I don't believe all-out social media "war" is the answer. That will just get a defensive response. A more friendly educational approach would achieve more results in the long run.

We need to be mindful of our own actions too. Catch and release fly-fishing would certainly be considered offensive to parts of society. We are also not (solely) gathering food in our pursuit of "pleasure" and we cannot deny that our actions are stressful and injurious to our targets, even if we release them. 

That should leave us all with some food for thought.


Posted By: taurangatroutmaster
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 11:54am
you cant compare this to c and r flyfishing.  the fish are usually caught on  smallish hooks that cause minimal damage, usally hooked in the mouth not gut or gills and released in a condition that they will survive most of the time.  a responsible angler would take and utalise any fish that were unlikely to survive.  these clowns are putting arrows through fish that are definatly going to die just for the sake of it, the rays are being killed for no reason other than points or because it somehow makes these idiots feel good.  if they were eating the rays that would be a differant story but its just pointless killing.   not like c and r flyfishing at all


Posted By: FishMan
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 12:06pm
Yes, I'm reminded of the Pacific Island villagers who kind of look at fly fishers as some retarded form of fishing person that goes out for long hours each day but never brings anything home. Even in Aitutaki I'm sure half of them think we're all a little bit touched in the head. 

But there is an ocean of difference between, say, shooting a fish for no reason and dumping the carcass and carefully catching and releasing a fish so that it can continue to fight, feed and breed on another day. You only have to ask yourself how long would a tourism industry based on stingray shooting last?? It wouldn't take them long to run out of stingrays.


Posted By: Kevin.S
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 12:14pm
Stingrays are already part of our tourism industry, but in a much better way than shooting them.

http://www.divetatapouri.com/" rel="nofollow - http://www.divetatapouri.com/



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