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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Barrie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 6:38am
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Titanium
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Originally posted by post hole post hole wrote:

the difference is they can't just tack an hour here and there like a crooked lawyer account or tradie. .


The real difference is that you can get quotes for your lawyer, accountant or tradie.
You can also see and check out the quality you will be paying for.
you can also seek dispensation from a court if they have done you wrong.
The large companies that most in here are against or looking into run their own checks and balances.
also ran in the great Gurnard Grunta Hunter 2016
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote JW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 9:29am
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I would have thought a simple memo to the fishermen catching their quota saying something like 'lift your game' would have been more effective than a 13 part TV series on the off chance it might inspire a rogue operator. 

I think there are other motivations here.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote kiwifred Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 9:41am
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the only way commercial fishos will "lift there game" is if they are continually prosecuted for doing the wrong thing. unfortunately that is not happening so why would they strive to do different.
in the long term (probably not so long) you know what will happen. they will cry foul when there are no more fish to catch saying that MPI led them to believe that the quota system was working and therefore the taxpayer should compensate them for eternity for lost revenue.

Graeme Sinclair has shown his true colours and sold out to the commercial dollar a bit like ET in aussie with saltwater heroes
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (5) Likes(5)   Quote JW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 10:41am
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Isn't that the point right there Kiwifred. 

5 our of 6 operators caught on camera blatantly dumping fish and endangered species of dolphin and MPI tried desperately to sweep it under the carpet. 

They only got caught out thanks to the decency of MPI staff at the coalface. Once in the sh*t, their senior management repeatedly stated on the news that they had taken legal advice that they could not prosecute. 

Following a complaint to the ombudsman, it was found to be complete BS - the advice never existed!! Which still leaves the question 'why?' to be answered.

Aside from that, the obvious concern is if 5 out of 6 operators are dumping on camera, what the hell is going on with the ones not on camera!? The guy they interviewed said he'd been a criminal all his life and was sick of it. The system is broken and forcing perverse incentives on the guys out there trying to catch quota. 

Then there's losing 80% of the camera footage, stonewalling OIA requests for over two years. The list goes on. 

Sure there are pockets of good stuff going on but it's fundamentally rooted. This is what you end up with when the commercial industry has got things to a place where they effectively monitor themselves.

And then a TV show like this pops up! When you view it in context of all these shocking things that have not been addressed, it is an extremely cynical PR job. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kaveman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 12:30pm
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Originally posted by JW JW wrote:

Isn't that the point right there Kiwifred. 

5 our of 6 operators caught on camera blatantly dumping fish and endangered species of dolphin and MPI tried desperately to sweep it under the carpet. 

They only got caught out thanks to the decency of MPI staff at the coalface. Once in the sh*t, their senior management repeatedly stated on the news that they had taken legal advice that they could not prosecute. 

Following a complaint to the ombudsman, it was found to be complete BS - the advice never existed!! Which still leaves the question 'why?' to be answered.

Aside from that, the obvious concern is if 5 out of 6 operators are dumping on camera, what the hell is going on with the ones not on camera!? The guy they interviewed said he'd been a criminal all his life and was sick of it. The system is broken and forcing perverse incentives on the guys out there trying to catch quota. 

Then there's losing 80% of the camera footage, stonewalling OIA requests for over two years. The list goes on. 

Sure there are pockets of good stuff going on but it's fundamentally rooted. This is what you end up with when the commercial industry has got things to a place where they effectively monitor themselves.

And then a TV show like this pops up! When you view it in context of all these shocking things that have not been addressed, it is an extremely cynical PR job. 


That is exactly how i see it JW. Well said mate
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (3) Likes(3)   Quote Tzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 7:18pm
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FFS guys sure vent your frustration at the likes of the Government & MPI if that's how you feel but to slag off this series showing an insight into commercial fishing is just not on.
I will say it again and I will continue to say it watch the bloody program for what it is and put any pre conceived thoughts you may have about the industry to one side. Commercial fishing in any form is not going to go away so get over it, YES the QMS may have some flaws and after 30+ years could do with some restructuring in parts but consider where we would not could be without it. All this continual *****ing about commercial is only driving the wedge further & further into any relationship recreational should have with the commercial sector and if you want the likes of Legasea to be your voice at the table you all need to step back with the attacks personal and otherwise. Only then the 2 parties will be able to work together for the betterment of our fishery.
I find the programs so far quite refreshing from all the other programs about fishing, just how many times can one show & tell about catching snapper & kingfish.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote part-timer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 10:40pm
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Tzer...  people are venting frustration because its seen as propaganda.. which it is..

Cant you see that?

J
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Tzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 10:50pm
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Originally posted by part-timer part-timer wrote:

Tzer...  people are venting frustration because its seen as propaganda.. which it is..

Cant you see that?

J


Nope, you only see it as propaganda because you been led to believe it is from various advocacy groups and uninformed individuals.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote part-timer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 11:40pm
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Nope....  Ive fished out at the Moko Hinau for almost 40 years on our boat ( and my family 20 years before)... Ive seen the changes with my own eyes.. 


That is all ... for now..






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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Capt Asparagus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2017 at 9:54am
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Absolutely agree with you Tzer. When I was chatting to Graham at the show I made a point of particularly congratulating him on the show, there is no harm whatsoever of showing the other side of NZ fisheries, it is an interesting and informative show. Well done him.
It is only my overwhelming natural humility that mars my perfection.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote letsgetem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2017 at 10:03am
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I watched a programme on Country Calendar on commercial fishing out of Whitianga. One boat was trawling, called Danish seining, dragging a net along over the sea floor. Caught tonnes of snapper, incuding huge percentage of very small fish. Average value must be much lower (compared to line caught), due to small fish, and the treatment in the net - because of the crude method.
Bet that kind of fishing wont be mentioned on Ocean Bounty . Its biased.
Nothing wrong with being biased (rec fishing programmes are) - but don't mean we have to like or agree with it. 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote JW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2017 at 1:29pm
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Why not inform the uninformed and various advocacy groups with whatever it is you know to explain why this isn't simply a PR job for the industry?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2017 at 3:25pm
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Originally posted by JW JW wrote:

Why not inform the uninformed and various advocacy groups with whatever it is you know to explain why this isn't simply a PR job for the industry?


I have no special info to share, I for one just do not believe what I see as some of you do, to be nothing more than a PR job. You have all come to believe that just because industry are listed as partners in the credits and that with Graeme Sinclair being appointed by MPI to their advisory board that there is some conspiracy happening. Tell me if industry were not listed in credits and Graeme not appointed but this program was still produced would your views still be the same, I suggest not.

If we are to believe that this is a PR con job then shouldn't we all be signing petitions to remove other programs such as Country Calender & Religion from our screens because they too maybe viewed as PR propaganda. Whatever happened to freedom of speech, if you don't like it don't watch it, to which isn't this is what is said when members have started threads complaining about the content of the New Zealand produced fishing shows they don't like.
Again if you believe that the program is nothing more than a PR con job by all means go out and enlist help from groups such as the Green Party, Greenpeace & any other like minded group or individual to produce a series that shows the industry in the light you think it is.

If you just watch the series without prejudice you might even get a better understanding of the fishing industry with out all the politics coming to the fore.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2017 at 5:31pm
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ommercial fishing in any form is not going to go away so get over it, YES the QMS may have some flaws and after 30+ years could do with some restructuring in parts but consider where we would not could be without it. All this continual *****ing about commercial is only driving the wedge further & further into any relationship recreational should have with the commercial sector and if you want the likes of Legasea to be your voice at the table you all need to step back with the attacks personal and otherwise. Only then the 2 parties will be able to work together for the betterment of our fishery.

 That statement sums up the commercial/ rec / resource situation so well...
The issue IS NOT commercial/ rec or what ever.
It is 3 things
1/ Recs wilfully poaching fish/ shell fish often acting in illegal commercial manner..black market
2/Commercial who also act in an illegal manner
3/ MPI not acting and regulating in a manner to protect and grow a sustainable resource

So what is the common denominator here?
Those who act outside the law and regulations and those who dont administrate and create good regulations and law
 Its is not the majority of rec fishermen or the majority of commercial guys who abide, and often more than the law.

Just was WE condemn any rec fisherman blatantly breaking the law, NOT every rec fisherman... we Should NEED to do the give the majority of commercial guys the SAME RESPECT .

 In saying that Yes Im leaning strongly towards the program being a commercial PR excise...and under the circumstances I would be doing the same thing...
Just be thankful , so far, the programming hasnt gone to the extent of making a very big issue out of some of the excessive poaching by rec fishers. And if some rec fishers keep going the way they are directly pointing figures at the commercial industry as a whole then do not be upset if they do a big publicity thing of rec poaching, the damage, and most proberly the wet ticket fines incurred.

I dont totally agree with Tzar...but do very clearly see and agree from where he is coming from.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote ffocus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2017 at 5:55pm
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there are already programmes that make a big deal out of poaching by rec fishers.
One is coastwatch and another is the news.
and bloody well done too............
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote puff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2017 at 6:05pm
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They need to get round the table with the screaming reels boys, who know all to well about sustainability....
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2017 at 6:37pm
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Originally posted by puff puff wrote:

They need to get round the table with the screaming reels boys, who know all to well about sustainability....


LOLLOL I'm actually surprised no one has used their lack of being able to catch a fish to back up claims that there's no fish in the HG
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 6:30am
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Originally posted by Tzer Tzer wrote:

Originally posted by puff puff wrote:

They need to get round the table with the screaming reels boys, who know all to well about sustainability....


LOLLOL I'm actually surprised no one has used their lack of being able to catch a fish to back up claims that there's no fish in the HG
Talking to a guy at the show yesterday and he said whakatane inclose is going off for snapper.

"Tzer" you've been to AK for the boat show,had a taste of AK weather,there lays the problem "cabin fever"LOL Guess Graeme is just showing the other side(comms fishing)how many times can you watch a celeb catch and release?in particular in areas where the average family does not venture.

We do need to get away from us v them mentality and work on a common ground for sustainability. They are working within the rules and sure some of the big players are in hand and hand with mpi,but the small 2/3 man inshore vessel he is just as frustrated with the system like the rest of us,these are the men we need to get onboard with and find a solution
should of been out there yesterday!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 7:30am
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Originally posted by pjc pjc wrote:

Originally posted by Tzer Tzer wrote:

Originally posted by puff puff wrote:

They need to get round the table with the screaming reels boys, who know all to well about sustainability....


LOLLOL I'm actually surprised no one has used their lack of being able to catch a fish to back up claims that there's no fish in the HG
Talking to a guy at the show yesterday and he said whakatane inclose is going off for snapper.

"Tzer" you've been to AK for the boat show,had a taste of AK weather,there lays the problem "cabin fever"LOL Guess Graeme is just showing the other side(comms fishing)how many times can you watch a celeb catch and release?in particular in areas where the average family does not venture.

We do need to get away from us v them mentality and work on a common ground for sustainability. They are working within the rules and sure some of the big players are in hand and hand with mpi,but the small 2/3 man inshore vessel he is just as frustrated with the system like the rest of us,these are the men we need to get onboard with and find a solution


No Paul I don't think its cabin fever, I think that most people have come to believe the propaganda bull**** being spun from some groups & individuals who have an axe to grind for what ever reason. Since they make the most noise so people notice them and then after sometime, what's that's saying, if you tell a lie long enough you then become to believe in said lie.

As for catch & release from a celeb hell TV seems to be full of shows showing exactly this and in many cases where your average fishing family does not venture. Also what these TV shows are also portraying is how easy it is to catch fish in a seemingly overfished fishery, the joys of good editing aye but the general public don't know that all they see is snapper after snapper being caught.

Your right though Paul the recreational sector needs to get away from the us vs them mentality and work together for the sake of the fishery as a whole. Yes there is quite likely some underhanded stuff happening within industry and it is slowly being dealt without but remember there are some recreational that aren't doing other recreational any favours by poaching.
While there are social media pages like Ban Commercial Inshore Fishing, Fishing Outdoors Newspaper & couple others constantly taking cheap pots shots at commercial, MPI then advocacy groups like Legasea are going to find it difficult to sit at the table for discussions and be taken seriously when their supporters continually making stupid comments & at time false allocations and threats like lets sink their boats.

Anyway back to the content of this series which I'm finding enjoyable to watch how the other side operates (even though I've been there done that) so if you all think it a PR stunt then simple don't watch it but don't spoil it for others with negative rhetoric keep it to yourselves.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 7:52am
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Well written,and must agree on most parts.Will admit I did watch Graeme a couple of yrs ago,when he did the orange roughy series and very interesting from the skippers point of veiw,fishing great depths and setting/retreval is a long process.So we need to be on the fish before setting.

Finally a break in the weather so off to see what I can find,bit cold,might have to put shoes onLOL
should of been out there yesterday!
story of my life.
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