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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote John H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2017 at 10:46pm
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Achievements of LegaSea.
There have been plenty but as Tagit said in another thread they take time and expectations seem to leap frog results. 

One of the exciting achievements for me is the team LegaSea has built and the young people that feel inspired to contribute. This is totally different from some other recreational fishing organisations that have run out of steam and supporters.  People like Scott C, Sam W, Josh B are stepping up. Before them Matthew T, Adam A and Kaye V have been enthusiastic and skilled contributors.

Then there is Trish R, Si Y and Paul B who all have plenty of experience and many miles left on the clock. There are still some of us old hands around for a while longer. We have the support and direction of the 5 members of the Fisheries Management Sub committee. Pieter B also has a team of volunteers that help out at events.  Scott M, well, no words to describe the commitment and energy he has put in to the cause. The networks, the knowledge, the fronting up when it get hard.............

LegaSea is here to stay.
Your support will make it stronger.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote LegaSea Community Builder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2017 at 8:56am
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Originally posted by mowerman mowerman wrote:

When we write submissions to MPI and report them in the fishing media we are accused of being too radical.

Legasea needs to become pro active,as it is your a reactionary group..To survive you have to have Independence  and not ask NZ SFC before you do anything .A stand alone group not beholding to anyone or group of people ( eg seachange)You have the numbers come up with a plan . At the moment with these consultation processes be it MPI or Seachange  they give you 3 boxes to tick ..need to move away from playing lip service ...My thoughts only 


Yes and no. The NZSFC give us a fair amount of autonomy as there is trust and mutual respect. We would rather work closely with the NZSFC council in an officially organised way and a strongly relational way rather than be recognised as a break away / separate group. From my perspective, NZSFC enhance, not hinder what we do. NZSFC networks have advanced our work and helped us connect to key opinion leaders in the community. Breaking affiliations would weaken not strengthen our cause. We work closely with rec fishers and try to find as much common ground as possible to have unity and therefore power in the policy arena.
When you try and unite or gather community around a cause, the more people who join, the more complex it becomes. You are trying to work with more people, please more people, make sure more people are heard, make sure everyone is in the waka and paddling in the same direction. The bigger the waka, the bigger the complexities of communication and trying to retain unity.
 This forum is pretty good proof that trying to unite rec fishers can be worse than herding cats Cry we acknowledge we will never speak for all fishers however where we can find common ground and common goals we want to align with those fishers - even when they get prickly about how we do things LOL.
We are deeply grateful for the people who are behind us and trust us to act in their best interests. 
Regarding the comment on being proactive, I will respectfully say I would suggest you go back and read the page of net works we've been building and consider the time and man power it took to get there? Submissions are one thing, submissions coming from a large group is something else. 
Regarding being a reactionary group, we were originally. We had a review done on our organisation and one of the criticisms was that we need an issue to exist. That has changed and is continuing to change. When I interviewed with the LegaSea team my vision was to try and embrace more of the fishing community. There are some wickedly loyal and passionate fishers on this forum who have actively sought out the issues and are willing to go to all lengths to see abundance. There are only a few of those sadly in our total population and to make change we need a much bigger tribe - that tribe will be made up of all kinds of people. 
The Fish Care program is part of our educational initiative - we can't point the finger at comms about needless waste if rec fishers aren't addressing what's in their own back yard. We are evolving from 'reacting' to 'leadership'. 
Re Sea Change, I have been prodding the team, this is still being put together. I have some of my own opinions but would rather wait for the team summary. Thanks    
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote LegaSea Community Builder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2017 at 9:07am
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Originally posted by Marligator Marligator wrote:

Scott, I am a delegate (13 years) for my club (Mt Maunganui) and I will back up Tzer's statement about one of the stated original goals of LegaSea if financially successful was to reduce affiliation fees, although this was a much lesser goal that the fundraising and advocacy roles, but it was stated at a number of AGM's and at Zone Meetings.
 
The only way they are going to seriously make a dent in the Black market crayfish is to have a hell of a lot more Fisheries Officers, surveillance etc and that costs money and trying to get money for that from government is like trying to get blood out of a stone.

Thanks for clarifying/validating Marligator, I wasn't sure what had been said historically on the NZSFC side. 

John H has framed the answer well -

'I think there was a lot of optimism in the first few years about the pulling power of a well organised voluntary funding model for helping recreational fishers have a voice and get involved..... 

As we have understood how to organise ourselves and what it will take to see results, looks like that original intent/goal has changed. Sorry it sounds a bit like passing the buck however going back through NZSFC channels is still the right thing to do if you feel let down on the original intentions stated at the AGM. 

To quote John again 'There may be a tipping point where people realise LegaSea has a plan that will work for recreational fishers for the long term and spread the load away from NZ Sport Fishing Council members.  I hope so.  Seems we aren't there yet.... '
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote mowerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2017 at 12:25pm
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Regarding the comment on being proactive....

one point ....why havnt Legasea been pushing this ?

Sections 12(1)(c) and (e) of the RMA state that no person may, in the coastal marine area,
destroy, damage or disturb the foreshore or seabed in a manner that has or is likely to have
an adverse effect on the foreshore or seabed, or on plants or animals or their habitat

Isnt it about time the Council enforced its own bylaws ??
Or have they been brought out by the Commercial fishing company's. As a rate payer,home owner also like everyone else have to abide by the Council bylaws .. it is time Council enforced what they have written without any excuses why they cant ..
Seachange is one thing with their proposals... But this bylaw has been in place long before Sea-change.. I wonder what Council gets as back handers to shut their eyes to illegal fishing by Commercial in the Hauraki Gulf.........?????



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote LegaSea Community Builder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2017 at 8:44am
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Originally posted by mowerman mowerman wrote:

Regarding the comment on being proactive....

one point ....why havnt Legasea been pushing this ?

Sections 12(1)(c) and (e) of the RMA state that no person may, in the coastal marine area,
destroy, damage or disturb the foreshore or seabed in a manner that has or is likely to have
an adverse effect on the foreshore or seabed, or on plants or animals or their habitat

Isnt it about time the Council enforced its own bylaws ??
Or have they been brought out by the Commercial fishing company's. As a rate payer,home owner also like everyone else have to abide by the Council bylaws .. it is time Council enforced what they have written without any excuses why they cant ..
Seachange is one thing with their proposals... But this bylaw has been in place long before Sea-change.. I wonder what Council gets as back handers to shut their eyes to illegal fishing by Commercial in the Hauraki Gulf.........?????



On paper it looks like a straight forward issue however as already noted, the Marlborough District Council are starting to look at fishing techniques that damage the bottom (see previous post as this also details that their decisions are subject to challenge and not a done deal).
Here is a commercial fishing response to what the MDC are trying to do: 
'In a decision released on 5 December, the Court (Judge Smith presiding) made the declaration, confirming that fishing controls are able to be used in regional plans as long as they are for resource management purposes.'

The core issue was the interface between the Fisheries Act and the Resource Management Act, and particularly the application of s 30(2) which limits specified fisheries-related controls (at [8]). The Attorney-General joined the proceeding, and was motivated to clarify the interface between the two Acts and avoid plan provisions which offend s 30(2). The Court was satisfied that the Resource Management Act and the Fisheries Act are intended to work in tandem and that both Acts “are aware of, and attentive to, the other” (at [10]), noting the express references to the RMA in the Fisheries Act, and vice versa........

Motiti Rohe Moana Trust is now able to argue for controls on fishing in the region’s coastal marine area. The decision will be of interest to other regional councils, some of whom (such as Marlborough ) are already looking to control some fishing activities in parts of their region’s coastal marine area to protect fragile marine environments. Community groups that are advocating for controls under the Marine Reserves Act or Fisheries Act to protect marine ecosystems may also look to the RMA to achieve similar outcomes.

So in principle yes councils have power to initiate controls so that they can implement their plans however as also already noted, the efforts to implement those controls are subject to challenge and on occasion have previously been challenged and stopped.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote LegaSea Community Builder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2017 at 8:52am
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Originally posted by KikBac KikBac wrote:

Originally posted by Tzer Tzer wrote:


What of the estimated black market we have here of around 80 odd ton?


Exactly, this is the reason the Concession was introduced in the first place (and not some deliberate plot to screw recreational fishers as perceived by some!)

So rather than a pissing contest between Commercial and Recreational interests, why not focus on the REAL issue which is the illegal plunder of 80 tons per annum. You can bet those responsible for the illegal harvest have no respect whatsoever for minimum size and/or daily bag limits.

Both Legasea and MPI in the Fisheries for the Future are both strangely silent on the issue of illegal take.

Illegal take is pretty straight forward and common ground for 99.99% of the stake holders - it is wrong and any illegal activity should be prosecuted as determined by law. Don't think anyone is going to argue about that. We get numerous messages of people asking about Facebook pages of people 'casually' selling crayfish and other seafood, we advise to report it straight away for investigation....

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote v8-coupe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2017 at 6:49pm
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Hi.
Has/was the Seachange document/program publicly advertised?
Thought I would ask as I was talking to yet another customer who is a keen fisho and they did not know anything about it.
This was definitely not the fisrt time/person.
If it has been, then I suspect it was in a backwater rural rag as part of their legal requirements.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote mowerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2017 at 8:08pm
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Mate ..I was on their email list..got 2 emails in 3 years..nothing now for the past 18 months. Hidden agendas of self appointed Mouthpieces Iwi
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote v8-coupe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2017 at 8:21pm
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Originally posted by mowerman mowerman wrote:

Mate ..I was on their email list..got 2 emails in 3 years..nothing now for the past 18 months. Hidden agendas of self appointed Mouthpieces Iwi


So what you are saying is if you are on their email list and not recieving much then the general public does not stand a chance.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote mowerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2017 at 8:30pm
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On email list and havnt received nothing over 18months.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2017 at 8:39pm
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Originally posted by mowerman mowerman wrote:

Mate ..I was on their email list..got 2 emails in 3 years..nothing now for the past 18 months. Hidden agendas of self appointed Mouthpieces Iwi
same here,nil
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Tzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2017 at 9:32pm
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Originally posted by pjc pjc wrote:

Originally posted by mowerman mowerman wrote:

Mate ..I was on their email list..got 2 emails in 3 years..nothing now for the past 18 months. Hidden agendas of self appointed Mouthpieces Iwi
same here,nil


I have the same problem here with our district council, I believe it's deliberate either because they think I'm negative or that I'm right and they don't want you there influencing people against their views
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote LegaSea Community Builder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2017 at 12:43pm
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LegaSea spent some time putting in a submission on the The Future of our Fisheries proposal.

Some copy to explain:
The Future Of Our Fisheries (FOOF) Vision is – Abundant fisheries and a healthy aquatic environment that provide for all our people, now and in the future.

There are three strategic proposals in FOOF: a. Maximising value from our fisheries; b. Better fisheries information; and c. Agile and responsive decision-making.

Quick summary of FOOF proposals – 
a. MPI want to solve the problem of discards and dumping with new rules and cameras. 
b. MPI want to maximise the value from fisheries with better information and decision-making.
 c. Value could come from new and undeveloped fisheries.
d. Integrated Electronic Monitoring and Reporting System (IEMRS) for commercial fishing. 
e. Innovative Trawl Technology (ITT) to land fish in better condition.
f. MPI will establish a Technical Advisory Group of independent representatives to act as a reference group to test the next steps of the programme. Graeme Sinclair has been appointed by the Minister to provide advice on what is important to recreational fishers.
g. MPI to increase use of multi-sector collaborative forums to manage shared fisheries such as Marlborough Sounds blue cod, Snapper 1.
h. The economic contribution of recreational fishing to New Zealand and associated job figures from the New Zealand Marine Research Foundation’s economic report are used in the FOOF documents.
i. MPI propose the establishment of a National Fisheries Advisory Council that reflects community, tangata when and shareholder aspirations for fisheries. 

LegaSea's submission on the above issues can be read here:




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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2017 at 1:19pm
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Did Moyles promise ever make it in to party policy??information I can find the answer is no.
So his promise can be dismissed,like most politicians promises,broken.
Will cameras/monitoring the waste issue overcome the problem?no
The commercial fleet needs to move outside little/Gt Barrier,out of sight out of mind and they can then destroy their own fishing grounds.How do we achieve this without a public demonstration like the nuclear issue?Job for "Greenpeace"??
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote LegaSea Community Builder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2017 at 3:12pm
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Yeah my understanding is that it didn't make it into any kind of policy which is a crying shame.We had an MP contact us recently regarding the fishery and Moyles promise was of much interest to them. Can't say too much but we will be approaching more MPs to keep the message front and centre.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote LegaSea Community Builder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2017 at 3:42pm
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If followers of this thread aren't aware, the Sea Change plan will have an impact of the Hauraki Gulf for Rec fishers. There has been a lot of discussion here:
http://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/topic122521_post1675717.html#1675717 

To provide some constructive and bold action to aid the current online discussion by concerned Fish Net members, LegaSea is inviting you to a Sea Change Q & A so we can provide more info. We can answer questions and provide valuable perspective that is missing on the forum because we were involved, and at the coal face of the process at that. 

I can coordinate dates and times once we have some people confirmed as coming, please reply in this forum. If you are in a different part of the country (outside Auckland) maybe we can look at other ways to get you involved. Either PM me or reply via this or the Sea Change thread.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote mowerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2017 at 3:53pm
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All very well Legasea inviting us ...we need everyone ,Iwi as well ...otherwise its just talk ..We need to be heard and they need to be told directly ..a public meeting ..4 hours at least plus on going meetings to thrash this out ...We are the major users of the Gulf ....
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2017 at 4:00pm
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Thanks Scott,will attend.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote LegaSea Community Builder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2017 at 4:11pm
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Great, will start looking at dates, thinking a Friday evening maybe a good time to do this? 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Tzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2017 at 4:21pm
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Originally posted by pjc pjc wrote:

Did Moyles promise ever make it in to party policy??information I can find the answer is no.
So his promise can be dismissed,like most politicians promises,broken.
Will cameras/monitoring the waste issue overcome the problem?no
The commercial fleet needs to move outside little/Gt Barrier,out of sight out of mind and they can then destroy their own fishing grounds.How do we achieve this without a public demonstration like the nuclear issue?Job for "Greenpeace"??


Paul, while Moyle's promise has merit my understanding is that the government cabinet of the day didn't adopt or pass his promise into being so I don't know how you can claim it is a broken promise. I think there is a lot out there who are clinging to this when in actual fact there is no promise.
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