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Latest report on managing recreational fishery

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    Posted: 01 Aug 2017 at 7:00am
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Titanium
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Here's the link to article - http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11897328
This think tank is suggesting Western Australia getting good results with a licensing system and money raised going back into managing fishery - anyone from there care to comment?
Good fishing trip nothing breaks, great trip catch fish.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kevin.S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2017 at 8:38am
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$10-20 for a licence, I don't think they have thought that through. That probably wouldn't cover the cost of administering it, certainly wouldn't cover any enforcement costs.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote SaltyC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2017 at 10:57am
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The author used to work for MPI ... say no more......
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote John H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2017 at 5:19pm
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Hmmm
We had a meeting with the Author before his first report. The draft was almost finished but I spent 4 or 5 hours reviewing and commenting on that. Seems the message has not changed.
Recraetional fishers need quota the same as commerial.
Report ALL their catch... somehow??
Buy quota off commecial (at what ever inflated price they come up with) if we want to increase our share in our fishery.
Find millions of dollars a year to run the whole Cluster @#^%.  $20 a head wont cut it.
 
Western Australia
 

For 1 Year licences

Recreational Fishing from Boat - $30.00

Rock Lobster - $40.00

Abalone - $40.00

Marron - $40.00

Freshwater Angling - $40.00

Net Fishing (set, haul, throw) - $40.00

a 10 per cent discount applies for more than 1 licence per transaction.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote thebakerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2017 at 7:33am
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Some thoughts on protecting our fishing resource:
1) Ban all hooks other than circle hooks. Outcome something like 99+% of fish caught will be hooked in the corner of the mouth making it easy to release any not wanted without touching them or taking them out of the water.
2) No fish with baro trauma to be released- they must be kept regardless of how big or smnall they are.
3) Maximum number of "small" fish (those under specified sizes- say 30 cm for snapper) to be say 3 per boat. Once there are 3 "small" fish in the bin, all fishing must stop.
4) All skippers to be licenced. Licencing to consist of a one day course on safety, navigation, fishing regulations along with techniques for safely releasing fish. Also how to maximise the yield from common fish- I personally eat the heads, wings and back bones and of course the fillets of the snapper and most other fish that I catch. I therefore don't need to catch so many fish as those people who only keep the fillets.
5) All boats must have radio or cell phone. All skippers must report in just prior to launching and immediately on completion of retrieval. End of day reports must include details of fish caught including number and approximate sizes kept and released.

I know this is a massive shift from the present. However, being realistic- our current "wild west" approach is a hangover from the dim dark past. Times have changed and if we want to keep enjoying our fishing, we will need to change too.

Chris


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2017 at 8:12am
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A few comments on the thoughts tbman.

1) I use circles almost exclusively these days and yes that is a realistic idea for bait fisherman but not sure about the 99%+. Maybe 90%+ would be unhooked reasonably easily but you still do get the occasional fish that is hooked a bit deeper when you have inexperienced fisherman on board. Still a good thing though. For softbait and lure fisherman of all types I don't think this is maybe a realistic option.

2) This could be done, but the definition of barotrauma and how that is published to the public would need work.Enforcement is almost impossible though so not sure how this would work as a 'law' rather than just an educational effort.

3) Because 2 is unenforceable I can't really see this working. Most people aren't going to stop their days fishing because the 6 people on the caught 3 small baro fish on the first drop of the day when they have just motored an hour to get to their spot etc. No use trying to make laws that virtually everyone will ignore because they are too restrictive.

4) Something like this is going to happen sooner or later. Our current free for all on boating safety will not last as we keep on growing the population and crowding the water. I hate it and hate the way we are growing the population to wreck/crowd our natural resources, but a course like you describe will happen sooner or later due to safety issues. Thing them is to get the fishing put into the course.

5) I am tired of hearing how the recreational catch has to be accurately measured and this is the ongoing excuse for poor fisheries management. The more we support this argument the more we play into the hands of the commercial sectors constant attempts to deflect attention from the damage they do. What we should focus on is how 'satisfying' the fishing experience is for the rec anglers. The current ramp surveys and over flight counts get this accurately enough to build the picture and don't rely on compliance by anglers and introduce yet another way that someone can be prosecuted for going about their daily lives. If the phone in thing is going to work you would have to have enforcement. That means everyone having to report before they get back to the ramp/berth and then get some sort of report number to confirm they have reported and then have people at the ramps/marinas checking for those numbers. Just imagine how may people would need to be manning the phones on a nice Saturday afternoon. Would need to be 100's of them. Then we would need to pay to report to fund all this and then people won't do it etc etc. So maybe you have a phone app report instead but then we are making it compulsory for everyone who fishes to carry a phone that supports that app plus who knows how many people on a help desk to deal with technical problems. I just don't think this is realistic, necessary, nor affordable. Lets not lose sight of the goal - rec fisherman have an enjoyable day on the water and catch a few reasonable sized fish to take home without having to be an expert fisherman to catch them. All the talk about needing a more accurate understanding of the rec catch is a mix of scientists who think they need to have 100% data before they can make a reasonable study and the Comms who are desperately trying to throw blame on the rec sector for the damage they have dohe and are still doing.
This all comes back to our QMS. What we should be doing is prioritising that for the very few fisheries (around 5% or less) that the recs make any impact on we look first at providing a reasonable fishing experience to the average angler. That's around 1,000,000 people served. After that we make allowance for the comms and that is maybe a few 100 people served. It isn't hard to work out how a sensible non-corrupt first world country should be prioritising the allocation of its 'publicly owned' natural resources.
I would love to see a proper audit done so that the people of NZ could truly see how little they get from the commercial rape of our inshore fisheries. I am guessing that the actual true return to the public might be only a $1 or 2 person and for that we have almost destroyed our inshore fisheries by commercial over exploitation. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2017 at 9:32am
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Titanium
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5) I am tired of hearing how the recreational catch has to be accurately measured and this is the ongoing excuse for poor fisheries management. The more we support this argument the more we play into the hands of the commercial sectors constant attempts to deflect attention from the damage they do. What we should focus on is how 'satisfying' the fishing experience is for the rec anglers.

 Well put..

Bottom line, under legislation treaties and just plain citizen traditional rights, MPI/ quota guidelines etc etc

As it stands...
Commercial quota is set after the rec fishing and the ability of rec fishermen to catch fish is satisfied.
Unfortunately MPI Lobby , political ambitions etc have has this basic initial requirement in the legislation ignored.
 The problem under the current quota/ rec system is NOT the system.. it is the administration of the system by the ppl who make the regulations, caving into pressure groups do gooders , lobbyists and politicians.

 And yeah  comms say quota system best in the world.. and yes it is... but it is the ppl who admin it how have and are screwing it up ....and not bothering to even read the preamble to the legislation they Admin.

 We have an attitude , anti comms, and that attitude extends to " anything comms sayn is rubbish", with out any further investigation or for thought"
 And this head in the sand attitude resaults in any pressure do gooder, nothing better to do, group, popping their so called expert heads up and proposing to regulate everything.. when all that is needed is to admin the legislation as it was intented


 And another thing, as Tagit alludes to.. making any laws that are not enforceable is a total waste of time, effort  and tax payers money and more often than not, end up obsolete on the weird laws list.  Such laws are only made for political gain (gain populist vote) by weak politicians who dont have balls, and want to appear as if they do.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2017 at 10:54am
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I really don't think our QMS is a good system even if it was administered better Steps. Any system that creates a privately owned  property right out of a public resource with the public receiving maybe only a few % of the income generated from that resource is stupid. When that few % only comes in the form of taxes on a very few low wages and maybe a very small amount of income tax once the companies have done all their tax 'minimising' schemes and repatriated much of the profits (through transfer pricing maybe?) to overseas shareholders then it is even stupider. 
We get told that these fisheries generate important export dollars. I would love to see a properly audited balance sheet of how much this really is for the shared  inshore fisheries by the time they account for all the overseas purchases (boats, fuel, fishing gear, engines and parts, electronics etc) plus the profits shipped offshore. I would imagine that those numbers might make quite poor reading compared to what the comm sector like to publish. If only the average kiwi could see them and realise that our most popular recreational activity has been wrecked to make a very small number pf people wealthy and return comparatively little  value to the public of NZ.
I don't know if the QMS is legally fixable but from what I have read it is the biggest 'theft' of public property in the history of our country. $billions of quota and cash given for free to a select group of people in a grossly miss-manged process. There are people today that make a serious income from sitting in their armchairs and leasing out quota they received because they happened to be catching fish for a few years around the time quota was issued 35 years ago. Why isn't that income going to the people of NZ?  How do the public benefit from handing over that quota in the first place?The only way to minimise the effect of that is to get the shared fisheries prioritised to rec fishing but that won't happen unless one of our governments eventually sees that it is a make or break election issue. Our own legislation has been proven in court to pretty much hand the final decision making to the comm sector until a fishery is virtually fully collapsed. Given our typical Kiwi apathy I can't see that happening until our shared fisheries are totally screwed for rec angling and then it will be too late
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2017 at 12:21pm
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Any system that creates a privately owned  property right out of a public resource with the public receiving maybe only a few % of the income generated from that resource is stupid.

 Is it the system that "creates" or the ppl who have admin is such away to manipulate it to do so.
Another example isc the RMA...go back to the original proposal... AND the guy behind it, neither see the current system achieving or intended it to go in the direction it has and is.. as it happens nor does the initial legislation... ..
 In both cases it is the people who screw it.. not the system as intended.
 It is far easier and common to blame a system than take responsibility that the people are the problem...

 Again totally agree with your sentiments on how it system has been used.. mis used... even mis assessed as you suggest.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote thebakerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2017 at 4:35pm
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Thanks for positively adding to this discussion Tagit. A few responses-

1) Circle hooks- even if the true figure is as you say 90+%- that's still a much improved result and worth implementing I think.

2) I agree that my baratrauma suggestion in itself would be essentially unenforceable. However by making it part of the law it creates conversation and discussion and slowly over time an increasing number (but not all I agree) of fishermen would comply. Some compliance is better than none.

3) My reason for suggesting that fishermen have to stop fishing after catching a low number of small fish is to discourage people from staying where there are small fish. All too often I've observed fisherment catching literally dozens of undersized fish and continuing to waste bait on catching even more.

4) I agree.

5) I never said that inaccurate measuring of amateur catch is linked to poor fisheries management. I just think the more accurate the data better. I went out last weekend on a charter and learned that charter operators have to fill in detailed catch records. I think that all amateur fishos recording their catch as well as reportiing departure, destination, return could be extremely easily and simply done by way of a simple phone app. Compliance could also be easily policed by checking poeple as they returned to boat ramps. I agree that it would be totally impractical for this reporting to be done by radio, or even by telephone voice call.

By the way, the charter I went on on Sunday was West Coast. I could not Adam and Eve what I saw on the sounder. From the 20M mark to 37M where we anchored, there was nothing but solid fish. And there were workups everywhere. Every drop fish were hitting our baits on the way down. There's currently no commercial fishing pressure right now due to protecting the Maui dolphin- coincidence that the fishing was so good???
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2017 at 6:28pm
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Tbm - I run fishing charters and the charter catch reporting is grossly misunderstood. All we have to report catch numbers for are Kingfish (also Bluefin Tuna etc in other parts of the country). Other than that we only report the GPS coordinates or where we fish. There is zero value that I cam see in this information that is of any good use and only a few suspicions about what bad use it could be put too. As far as I can work out this was just the government doing something to placate the comm sector who love to try and deflect blame for fisheries depletion onto the charter fleet. 
Just as an aside, if you bother to do the maths for SNA1 less than 5% of the catch is taken from charter vessels and the best estimate I can make suggests it is between 2% and 3% of the take. So what value is there in collecting information about 2 - 3% of the take anyway. Way too small a sample for any accurate statistical purpose, so why am I paying fees to MPI, $'s to my crews to fill in these forms, and admin time to post them off plus the risk of getting fined if you forget to fill in a blank return during the winter months when not fishing. Meantime they have justified a few more useless jobs at MPI, and maybe that got some manager there a bigger salary out of our public purse. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2017 at 6:54pm
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Originally posted by thebakerman thebakerman wrote:

Thanks for positively adding to this discussion Tagit. A few responses-

1) Circle hooks- even if the true figure is as you say 90+%- that's still a much improved result and worth implementing I think.

2) I agree that my baratrauma suggestion in itself would be essentially unenforceable. However by making it part of the law it creates conversation and discussion and slowly over time an increasing number (but not all I agree) of fishermen would comply. Some compliance is better than none.

3) My reason for suggesting that fishermen have to stop fishing after catching a low number of small fish is to discourage people from staying where there are small fish. All too often I've observed fisherment catching literally dozens of undersized fish and continuing to waste bait on catching even more.

4) I agree.

5) I never said that inaccurate measuring of amateur catch is linked to poor fisheries management. I just think the more accurate the data better. I went out last weekend on a charter and learned that charter operators have to fill in detailed catch records. I think that all amateur fishos recording their catch as well as reportiing departure, destination, return could be extremely easily and simply done by way of a simple phone app. Compliance could also be easily policed by checking poeple as they returned to boat ramps. I agree that it would be totally impractical for this reporting to be done by radio, or even by telephone voice call.

By the way, the charter I went on on Sunday was West Coast. I could not Adam and Eve what I saw on the sounder. From the 20M mark to 37M where we anchored, there was nothing but solid fish. And there were workups everywhere. Every drop fish were hitting our baits on the way down. There's currently no commercial fishing pressure right now due to protecting the Maui dolphin- coincidence that the fishing was so good???


No coincidence there right across the west coast no net zone the fishing has been superb. Right there is the example being set and the standard that should be set all around the coast. Start with the BOP who need it most in just a few years I reckon the fishing will improve dramatically.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2017 at 9:20pm
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Well I will be dead in thirty years,and my way of thinking nothing is going to change,we will still be debating of what should done,yes lobby groups are working hard but until the commercial sector says thats it we are laying up the fleet there will be no change,governments labour/national/greens etc will not change what is happening to fish stock due to the high return,fuel etc is all tax written off

Pay a fee? how will that increase stock,it cannot until those with trawlers etc are driven offshore. Look at the Kermadecs was/is a reserve,nzf gets in and te first thing is pushing for commercial fishing at kermadecs

Aussie being our closet neighbour with some states with a licence fee,has fishing improved??but some of that money goes in to recreational infrastructure.Ramps.  Their MPI does not pussy foot around over the limit etc comms/reccs forfiet house boat car etc
Yes I know I will get shot down but thats my opinion until kiwis stand together and 1)stop fishing which effects small bussiness 2)take to the streets and blockade major roads. Need to stand up in numbers rather than some group saying theirs 600th fisherman,its just a number but get in the public eye then they will see what a number looks like and hopefully think,these guys stop fishing and our tax take is down.
The boss said "see you tomorrow" didnt know he liked fishing.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote thebakerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2017 at 6:44am
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Thanks Tagit- I didn't know that Charter operators only had to report kingfish catch. What I saw on Sunday was that the entire catch was recorded on a pre-printed sheet.

I think the more data we have, the better so therefore I'm in favour of all fisherman reporting their entire catch including fish released.

With regard to unenforceability of laws- the open road speed limit is 100kph. Previously you were generally allowed a margin of 10 kph and that has now been tightened to 5kph I believe. Notwithstanding that it is impossible to catch everybody every time they break this law, we nevertheless have the law. Some people obey the law because it is the right thing to do, some because of the penalties they would incur if by some very remote chance they were caught, and some just choose to break the law. However if we had no law then almost everybody would exceed 100kph. The law is not there to make everybody comply but to reduce the number who don't comply.
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