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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2017 at 4:49pm
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Titanium
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Thats some real nice work..
I appreciate the time and patence it takes just sitting down shaping filling, not just the blades , also the handles.
Are you also doing you own forging, hardening , annealing ?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2017 at 9:20pm
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I have a drop point knife I've half made, just need to harden, temper, polish fit the handle. Ohhh that's after straightening it after it bent Big smile


Best gurnard fisherman in my street
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote muchalls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2017 at 10:20am
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Hi, sadly I don't yet make blades, I buy finished blanks.
I have however bought a couple of lengths of steel, 1075 and 12Cr27.
The steel is not heat treated so I can cut out a knife, probably get the edge by hand filing (I don't have a good enough belt grinder) then heat treat.
Smudge, go for it!
If you want any brass for a bolster I have brass rod rectangular section, 19mm x 6mm which is what I have used in these knives.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The Tamure Kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2017 at 10:56pm
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Great work, Muchalls.

Just a query - how do you get on sharpening the Svord blade?
I've just about given up on mine. I didn't understand what a 'convex' blade meant when i bought it, and despite trying to learn from a number of YouTube videos about sharpening convex blades using sandpaper and mouse pads etc, I have got nowhere. I certainly can't whittle paper afterwards like the guys on the video clips!

Any advice would be appreciated.

In the meantime, my Victory knives are going well and with the traditional shape edge are easy to sharpen using my Spyderco rig - i went to the factory shop and the helpful ladies searched around and managed to find me a carbon steel bladed knife in the filleting shape.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2017 at 10:09am
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Titanium
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Convex edges are done very similar to how an old school cut throat razor is stropped.. or at finished on a grit and oil impregnated leather strop
 For a dulled cut throat one uses a  very very fine stone that has .. what looks like been shallowed drilled indents in it...and always drawn backwards.
Never do it in a jig, the amount of natural roll when done by hand is enough to form the correct edge. Very light strokes.
 Once the edge is done, then strop it up....
A leather strop has 2 lengths.. one has been impregnated with a very fine grit, the other a very very fine grit.
 Using a lightish weight, strop just tight enough to keep straight but with pressure a slight sag drag the blade backwards, rolling the blade side to side, up and down.
 Then repeat the final 'edge polish' on the fine side.
I have never used sand paper, fortunately I have all the stones and gear left to me from my father and grandfathers...around 80 to 100 yrs old.

I think the secret using sand paper method would be getting a grit fine enough to polish up the edge... Start , at a gues I recon around at least a 1200 or 1600 grit maybe, and finish with around 2400/ 2800 ..plus.
And dont use it on a flat bench, it needs to be able to sag a little when pressured... ie each end clamped and the middle like a suspension bridge.

Also if you have the wrong steel and/or hardened and annealed incorrectly the edge with form but not hold well.
 The right steel and right hardening temp for that steel and right annealing temps are extremely critical to a good edge, and ability to hold that edge for the correct use/ application of the blade

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The Tamure Kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2017 at 10:46am
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Well hopefully the Svord has the right steel, given what I paid for it compared to the Victory knives! It's carbon steel, and I look after it with oil etc.
Some people on the forum have rubbished Svord but I suspect they didn't grasp the fact that it had a different shaped blade and ended up making the convex edge blunt by trying to sharpen in the normal way - when it requires a totally different method.
The idea with the mouse pad (basically, hard foam/neoprene material) is that it 'gives' when you gently wipe the blade over the sandpaper.
And you start with a more coarse grade and go finer and finer.
 
I think I got the blade reasonably sharp at one stage, then made it worse the more I tried, and ended up with a very dull edge.
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2017 at 6:21pm
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Titanium
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Sry have internet / computer issues.. 3 attempts at an anser and dropped it... and dont have spellhecker, so please be tollerant to my dysexia issues... fixed where I can, I think.

Well hopefully the Svord has the right steel, given what I paid for it compared to the Victory knives! It's carbon steel, and I look after it with oil etc.

 Yep svord is good steel, and victory is to ...but have to match the right knife/ steel/ edge to the use and application.

Victory is a quailty bulk supply to industry...an industry where long time ago chefs, barbars, capenters, butchers etc knife care, sharpening , the metallury, and suplying their own knives, chisels was part of trader cert.

Some people on the forum have rubbished Svord but I suspect they didn't grasp the fact that it had a different shaped blade and ended up making the convex edge blunt by trying to sharpen in the normal way - when it requires a totally different method.

 My take on it also.. see paragraph above..and these days these trades no longer know or have the skills, or need to. Their knives, scissors are sent away for shapening..and are more designed now to saw than slice.

The idea with the mouse pad (basically, hard foam/neoprene material) is that it 'gives' when you gently wipe the blade over the sandpaper.

Cool never thought about doing it like that, mouse/ neoprene pad rather than suspension .. like a belt sander.


I think I got the blade reasonably sharp at one stage, then made it worse the more I tried, and ended up with a very dull edge.

 I rem having that issue when 1st learning, or got lazy.. its caused because you dont form a burr EVERY time before movinfg to other side, or finer grit.

 regardles of edge type, and method..a burr must be formed, and burr gets finer and finer.

EG a  22 deg fine kitchen knife, angles vary for use and steel type.

One starts with coarse, form a burr around 18/19 deg...repeat other side, then again but little more than the weight of the blade this time.. both sides.

Next finer grit repeat above but at 20/21deg.

 next finer grit repeat at the 22/22 deg then a 3rd wipe from the back of the blade only as in convex sharpening, with little or no weight.

I repeat a burr must be raised every time and the last wipe the microscopic burr is straightened out

Then one may wish to move to a leather strop..a fine and coarse, which then 'polishes' the final edge.

 This can only be done IF the steel is of type to do so... eg very hard cut throat razor steels.

 Cheaper type stainless  and high carbon stainless are designed not to have a polished edge .. but 'work' by having the microscopic carbon crystals fall out of the edge leaving a 'saw' with 'teeth' sharp as broken glass...these sharpen very easy on those V pull thru sharpeners...which by nature leave a rough and broken sharp saw edge. They will sharpen with a burr, but the burr is fradgial, and breaks off leaving a very wide blunt edge.

 In saying that.. saw edges are excellent for cutting ropes, cloth....polished burr edges butchery, chisels, axes, chain saws.

 Fine edges 22 deg and below, carving meat, veggies, fish filleting knife tip and end, chain saw on soft woods... steeper edges 30/35 deg...where abuse takes place.. manukua, gum, sheoak puriri, aka aka  hardwods with chain saw... the hilt edge of a  fish filleting knife where goes thru bones.

 Dont go for super sharp .. go forthe edge that the knife and knife steel is going to be used for.
  Hope this helps.

My working knives

Kitchen. 1 1970 carbon steel gren river skining knife and a carving knife, 3 new world/ pams  $5 pairing knives. Bait knives  same

Filleting knives  1  SS victory semi .. going to replace with a green longer stiffer on.. Green river fine filleting knife 

 Belt pouch a Gerber folding  bush skining knife.

Garden.. the burkely and another know brand bait knives been relegated there.

Hope this helps.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The Tamure Kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2017 at 7:34pm
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Wow, Steps, you know your stuff.

I feel like there's definitely a lost art there. My grandpa was a freezing worker at Westfield pre and post WWII and dad has one of the old big sharpening stones which were in these big ponds revolving all day apparently.
I think it's not meant for today's knives, but cool to have. 

Anyway, here is a link to one of the many mousepad sharpening videos re convex edges. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQJKT4a9yLo&t=368s
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2017 at 8:25pm
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Titanium
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Wow, Steps, you know your stuff.
 
Dunno m8...all i know is this stuff and lot other stuff gardening , fishing was just part of growing up...old school...
  old man always said/ had an attitude... "ok this is how you use an axe.. if i catch you not using right, grounded, or u loose a leg, which ever comes first)  "  and I was maybe 4 or 5..
 Never realized how much crap parents and grand parents filled my head till got into my 30s and 40s
 Then throw in 50 od yrs of when I do something .. be it roses, native kakariki, restore a classic or muscle car, panel paint nearly everything except machining..I tend to over research, have to, because do it all myself..Then design the engine to run on modern fuels with modern octanes, timing  gearing, weight, torque convert slip....Then find so much of this applies to propping a boat.
  Put a physics/ chemistry background into that...
I have been fortunate in the opportunities life has given me thats all.

 cool link
... I was guessing that the grits (above post) I was thinking in more extreme terms of a cut throat.. 400 being fine.. rather surprised at that ...400 wet dry is not a finish paper even for a car paint job..and has a feel far more rough than even my med stones.
 Also.  on heavier grits hes not building and feeling for the burr before going to the other side...one goes light side to side when grits get very fine, get to polishing the edge just before the  of the strop... not impressed with the strop either... may just cause Im used to a real barbars strop.
 And notice that each stroke he is twisting the knife angle, espec on the strop.  he has a steeper angle at the end rather than the main blade, Generally its the end curve that one uses for peeling back skin, meat off the bone.. shallow angle works, and back towards the hilt.. thats more hard work...go up thru the pin bones.



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2017 at 8:55pm
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Titanium
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PS
Been looking at a few u tubes
 none talk about forming burrs..
 And they cut a bit of paper at an angle, along the top... thru a curve in the paper they form by the way they hold the paper with their thumb... I do know that 'trick'
 Take a bit of A4 paper, hold at the cnr horizontally, then slice vertically down at 90 deg over 2/3 along from where you hold it.
Thats sharp... to sharp for most practical uses for most knives unless want to cold shave with it.. and nothing else... or bragging rights.The real world.

 Fond this web site, havnt been right thru it...old school practical guy who I recon knows his stuff
http://sharpeningmadeeasy.com/knives1a.htm

Enough thu
Althu related we are hijacking  Muchalls thread

 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote muchalls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2017 at 11:15pm
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Nah, sharpening is integral!
I use a Lansky stone system, but with Arkansas stones and oil.
Numerous bald patches on my left arm attest to the sharpness achievable. I do a final 'strop' on an old leather belt with a few wipes of fine grinding compound in the leather first.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote muchalls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2017 at 11:19pm
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Opinel are also great, excellent high Carbon steel and the handles are readily modified
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote e.m.p! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 hours 31 minutes ago at 9:50pm
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Thought I'd add a Svord friction folder I made a couple of years back. That's a convex edge btw – handle is a recycled skateboard deck…
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote muchalls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 hours 1 minutes ago at 12:20am
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Very nice
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