DOC budget cut

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Clifftastic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2016 at 11:01pm
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Fishy11, see what I mean about deflection? This isnt a 1080 argument.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fishy11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2016 at 11:05pm
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Thats why I said i don't want to argue the point.
If you want to go check out the politics section on this site, is a good thread on it, can get proven wrong by hoards of members on this site.

I only replied because you said I was 100% wrong, saying 1080 isn't the be all solution to our pest problems it's made out to be.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Marligator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2016 at 11:09pm
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Fishy11 something to think about with all these for various forums, everybody is biased to some degree and I am no different. Those guys on the hunting forums are so blinkered against 1080 poisoning because it kills 'their" deer, pigs etc. You could give them 100 fully scientific peer reviewed papers showing that 1080 had very little lasting environmental effect and they would still not believe you, you could even take them out into a forest and show them, they would not listen or see it, they are that blinkered.
I used to work with the animal pest guys in the BOP Regional Council about 13 years ago, they were all keen hunters and they had access to all the scientific data regarding 1080 poison and all said it was the only truly effective way of controlling animal pests in very large tracks of bush, smaller tracks of bush bait stations were effective but once you start talking 1000's of hectares 1080 was the only solution.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fishy11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2016 at 11:25pm
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Marligator everybody is biased to some degree and I am no different.
Exactly mate, i don't have a problem admitting that either, and i hunt as well.
Just funny though saying that and then saying, all the data supports your view.

I never said it doesn't have a place, use,  etc in some areas.
Just that there is plenty of evidence to suggest mass aerial 1080 poisoning like what is currently done isn't the best option.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Clifftastic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2016 at 11:26pm
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Fishy11 - chill. Dont come in getting your knickers in a twist by misreading what I wrote. You replied because you're all worked up and passionate about 1080, which is great if thats your thing, but not particularly relevant here.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fishy11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2016 at 11:33pm
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Clifftastic - Was relevant, and i stated why in a previous comment.

Told me i was wrong on the topic, i said reasons to support my position on it, and i noticed no mention from you about those reasons that i mentioned.
I said previously i didn't want to argue the point, but if you want to tell people they are 100% wrong on something with nothing to back it up, then be prepared for people to reply.

Atleast Marligator actually said reasons why he disagrees, and that's cool, i don't have a issue with someone thinking the opposite to me / sharing a different point of view.




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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fishy11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2016 at 11:38pm
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.....and i'm not all worked upLOL

If you think i have been, or am personally attacking you or something, i'm not.
Just telling someone they are wrong, then when they reply to you defending their position, oh that's not relevant though, thats all i took a slight exception to.

Edit atleast you have good taste in beer unlike some, just saw your postThumbs Up one thing i will agree with you on.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Clifftastic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2016 at 11:55pm
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Smile Im glad you are okay.

I dont think you are attacking at all. I said you were 100% wrong about DOC not evaluating the situation before coming in with a 1080 drop. I work for Council. I deal with the discharge consents, well I have previously, not now. I have friends that trap for DOC. I have been in a chopper doing a 1080 drop. I hate 1080. But currently it is accepted scientifically, until it's not. We can go in circles on this all day. So what I am saying is, there are many steps that take place prior to the smell of napalm in the morning raining hellfire from above. You may or may not be aware of what goes on prior to a drop, but I do know about this process. It is not something to be blamed solely on DOC.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Tonto2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2016 at 12:00am
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Originally posted by Clifftastic Clifftastic wrote:

Sorry Tonto2, but that's a pretty crappy call. Even spending just one day in a national park, marine reserve or heritage site will make you appreciate what this department does and what value they provide. And flyfisher, what are you talking about?
my bad for having an opinion I guess. I have spent time in these areas and i've seen some gross mismanagement of some of them and also huge amounts of money wasted. But as I said just my opinion.
slowly going where everyone else has already been
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fishy11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2016 at 12:05am
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Clifftastic
It is not something to be blamed solely on DOC.
Not saying it is, but they are part of it though.

But currently it is accepted scientifically
In what regard? that it kills stuff, yeah.
Plenty in the scientific community disagree with our governments position on it, both nationally and internationally.
Hence why it isn't widley used in many other parts of the world, but i guess we are smarter than everyone else huh.

And their process, LOL after watching guys standing down wind from the stuff on mutliple occasions with open bags, trucks contaminated with the stuff i wouldn't trust them with my mouse trap.

My 2cents, your 2cents meh.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Lethal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2016 at 4:03am
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Awesome Mahi Dean Baigent-Mercer highlighting the impact of pests on Northland's ghost forests.
the National Government forgot them in today's Budget. Amd that $20m for Battle for Our Birds. It's been robbed from other DoC projects. It's not new money. Funding for managing natural heritage has been slashed by $20 m.
Thanks for keeping us informed Eugenie Sage and Seven Sharp.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/forgotten-forests-far-north-desperately-seeking-aid-help-save-dying-trees

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2016 at 7:02am
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seeing how the 1080 issue was raised,I posted earlier this year on a area I go camping,never use to have bird life at DOC camp ground at "Btoken Hills"after the drop there are tuis bellbirds nz cuckoo and the black bush rat,so 1080 may kill a small % birds but the end result has has bird flourishing in the area.  As far pet dogs go signs are normally in place to not let your dog loose.

Now the $20 million budget cut will see a lot of the good work being undone as the on going maintenance will not take place due to other areas needs?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2016 at 9:03am
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"Doc does a lot of good work.the guys on the ground have passion in to their work.its just the management team let's them down. "

That pretty well sums up DoC to a tee
And Support organisations like the Auckland Zoo... look up why the new  Sth African Curator resigned and took his family back to SA...he could not do his job.
And the Young lady .. was the 'front person ' for DoC, now works for F&Bird... Has a tendency to call it as she sees it... got fired from DoC.

The hoops conservation organisations that rely donations or corporate sponsorship have to jump thru at huge costs and time before even the most basic common sense stuff get approved.
DoC had a cut a while back... the management deskjockey have got the got rid of or wake up to the reality they have to stop creating their own secure little empires and do he job they are paid for.

Budget cut is how pollies without balls say to a dept ... "OK guys stop your bureaucratic BS and start doing your job in the 21 century"

Rather than have the balls and say " OK this is your job, this is what is going to happen/ achieve. if u dont in the next 3 months and further out u will be looking for another job?"
But the flake to get rid of fire / replace them when the huge payouts and employment court stuff hits the media will politially be too much when the media gets hold of it.

Different parties approach the problem different, and which ministry.
Some parties , green . left will just throw more money at things like DoC fisheries, which simply expands the berocratic BS....
The current Government at this point in time, sees Health and Education, eg education, rather than simply have less accessing, form filling that no one uses and  lot (20% +)out of of classroom time for teachers .. throw more money at that... more people, retired principles, coming up with new radical teaching methods, at exorbitant 'consultation' fees

Its not a john key issue , or greens or labour.. it simply how at a certain point in time to get around the bureaucratic monstrosity best suited to the most votes to stay in power.

OK Collins maybe has the balls, but would they be big enough to take on MPI and win, and still be politicly viable with media support? Shes been beaten before...
 
no puns intended
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