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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote LegaSea Community Builder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2016 at 8:23am
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Tagit, you're hired brother.
Although to pay proper respect to what you have said - what we are coming down to here is what will motivate people to support/do something.
You are completely correct that people need a vision. We could try and do more of that (if you look at our website you will see great imagery of abundance, children etc so it is a part of how we communicate) however if you look at what politicians use to motivate people - and we are dealing with similar principles, they play to people's fears on the issues that are most important to them which lands us back to square one. The $ vs $ facts work to simply show that rec fishing is valuable, it doesn't get us all the way for sure but it is part of the solution. No magic bullet, no easy quick fix. As I posted to Muppet, this is an exercise in time and pressure. Thanks for your post.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote LegaSea Community Builder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2016 at 9:07am
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Hi Tzer,
I will have to dig a bit deeper my end to come back with a response because I don't want to send out incorrect info. Watch this space. Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote LegaSea Community Builder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2016 at 11:10am
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PJC - my apologies, I had written a response to your post last night but it seems I dropped the ball my end because I can't see it posted on the forum. 


To reply to your answers/questions
1)Crayfish,Tzer has that covered
2)Tools,Yes Ever Lynn Pinkerton? explained how the native indians of British Columbia battled the authorities to get better water quality and fish stocks improved.She said it is the same here our AK Council have an obligation to maintain water quality and seabed + plant fauna(seaweeds etc) Upon checking she is correct out to the 12 mile limit,destruction of the seabed by trawlers falls under council authority.

If we were to try and replicate that scenario here, who would 'Native Americans' relate to in NZ? Maori I would imagine. Are you saying LegaSea should convince Maori to approach the govt for better fish stocks? 
Regarding Council being involved, LegaSea has discussed this route. There are obstacles unfortunately. The Marlborough District Council did actually step in to try and do something. 
Opinion here is that it will be difficult to enact those by laws. Also consider that if councils want to change or condition use of the marine environment they can propose changes to their regional plans (as MDC did). However, that process is subject to challenge by the public and Environment Court per the Resource Management Act. This is not a common occurrence, but there has been some challenge to aquaculture decisions. 

In Northland the regional council proposed a plan change to open up much of the coast to marine farm applications. (Those applications would still need to go thru the normal, statutory process).  After a lengthy process of appeals the Environment Court ruled the plan change could not be made.
As the people of Hawke Bay have already experienced, the complexity and clout that corporate fishing interests have in the coastal environment mean any challenge to limit or condition fishing would most likely encounter more strident opposition, a higher evidential bar and legal challenge.


3)Scott said it was against his bosses(nzsfc) to be political
There's different levels of political activity, the fact we make submissions to the govt means we have political involvement, if you mean why aren't we holding more rallies/protests, I would have to quote John H here - 'We are a NGO (Non Government Organisation) and maybe have more in common with the Environmental lobby groups that have been around for a while.  They run solid campaigns and have professional staff.  They target issues that help shift the majority of people.  Maintaining a credible voice that can help shift the political middle ground is where lasting change comes from.'

4)Trawlers need to fish smarter,boo hoo if they go broke,no different to incompetent tradesman tradesman in a workshop.
Completely agree, but I am pointing out that wall is easier talked against than pushed over.

5) Simon Yates said at a meeting at Scotts,about 2yrs, that marine reserves do nothing yet under sea change signed off mpa.

Paper coming out, as already stated.

6)you want a data base of 100k??again Simon said in the event of feet on the ground no problem getting 100 to 150k from the data base??really so who's telling the truth here or have numbers of support dropped that much?
Sorry, I doubt that was said although I can certainly ask him - it may have been the size of our supporter network (and their supporters) not direct supporters on our DB.

7) under sea change which legasea has signed off also introduces apartheid,Yes apartheid,by looking at iwi only fishing zones.

As above.

Appears there are few who are not on the same page as the rest in legasea?
LegaSea is made up of individuals, we all have (and allowed) our own convictions although we work together as a team for the same cause. If there are publicised statements where it appears we disagree with each, please put that forward. However if you talk to individuals and some of us don't quite align on the peripheral stuff, I think that is acceptable.....

Now that I have spent a fair amount of my time replying to the questions on this forum from PJC and others, I think if fair and reasonable to ask some of my own.

PJC, can you please share with LegaSea some of your successes in accomplishing change for the fishery? We will humbly listen to those who have had success where we have failed. I say that because your tone and language gives the impression LegaSea is responsible for the failure of not enough change not quickly enough. 
I would extend that statement to all who are quick to use LegaSea as their emotional punching bag to vent their frustrations and disenchantment. 
It somehow seems unfair that a number of commenters here have lots of opinions on how LegaSea should operate, have attacked us for various perceived short comings and yet they don't contribute a cent to our costs.
People can give strong opinions/attacks on where the govt falls short because they pay hard earned money to the govt through their taxes to do a job.  
Put some money in, become a volunteer, roll your sleeves up, then you can have your say and be a positive part of change. I think that is a fair comment. 



  
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote mowerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2016 at 12:14pm
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Don't ask for more money when many of us have contributed many a$$ in the past..broken records get annoying
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Originally posted by mowerman mowerman wrote:

Don't ask for more money when many of us have contributed many a$$ in the past..broken records get annoying

Oh, the irony!
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Oh herby ..haven't heard from you for along time ..for a lucky moment I thought a great white might of got you..anyway happy new year to you
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Got to admit that disregarding any sort of political affiliation, for a regular reader of these posts that was pretty funny Herby/Mowerman.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2016 at 1:38pm
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LegaSea Community Builder View Drop Down Put some money in, become a volunteer, roll your sleeves up, then you can have your say and be a positive part of change. I think that is a fair comment. 

I have donated for four yrs,stopped this year,have volunteered at the boat show and 3 boat club events,last time was clean up manukau harbour day earlier this year.

Now son at the time ,4yr ago (10yr old )said "Dad legasea' looks like they are there to help us achieve growth in our fish stocks.  4yrs on he has now said "what hell have they achieved"looked at him and thought Hmm your right,stopped donation
 If a child can see nil results what hope is there unless you grab the ball and run with it instead talking talking, Take positive action by involving the people in some form of demonstration.Numbers seen is what counts.
Yes a small group tried and not successful but if they were backed by the Major recreational fishers group it might succeed .
In Tasmania a rally was held,only expected 100 people but ended up with 3000.next minute The Australian Recreational Fishers Party was born,no they did not win a seat but sure took a lot of votes away from the 4 amigos who were all fish supertrawlers and commercial fishing
Time for a re think on "Legaseas" part I think!

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2016 at 1:41pm
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 VotesPercentageSwingQuotasWonLikely
Australian Labor Party
113,935
33.59%
+0.76%
4.367
50
Liberal
110,318
32.53%
-4.98%
4.2284
40
The Greens
37,840
11.16%
-0.5%
1.4504
20
Jacqui Lambie Network
28,146
8.3%
+8.3%
1.0788
10
Pauline Hanson's One Nation
8,700
2.57%
+2.57%
0.3335
00
Family First
6,692
1.97%
+0.66%
0.2565
00
Nick Xenophon Team
5,128
1.51%
+1.51%
0.1966
00
Shooters, Fishers and Farmers
4,688
1.38%
+0.28%
0.1797
00
Australian Sex Party/Marijuana (HEMP) Party
4,493
1.32%
+1.32%
0.1722
00
Christian Democratic Party (Fred Nile Group)
2,861
0.84%
+0.84%
0.1097
00
Animal Justice Party
2,377
0.7%
+0.7%
0.0911
00
Australian Recreational Fishers Party
2,376
0.7%
+0.7%
0.0911
00
Palmer United Party
2,363
0.7%
-5.88%
0.0906
00
Liberal Democrats
1,662
0.49%
-1.83%
0.0637
00
Derryn Hinch's Justice Party
1,473
0.43%
+0.43%
0.0565
00
Renewable Energy Party
1,340
0.4%
+0.4%
0.0514
00
Science Party
1,306
0.39%
+0.39%
0.0501
00
Australian Liberty Alliance
1,112
0.33%
+0.33%
0.0426
00
VOTEFLUX.ORG | Upgrade Democracy!
946
0.28%
+0.28%
0.0363
00
The Arts Party
728
0.21%
+0.21%
0.0279
00
Citizens Electoral Council
177
0.05%
+0.05%
0.0068
00
Ungrouped candidates
498
0.1%
null
0.019
00
Seats in doubt
 
 
 
 
0 
Quota
26,090
 
 
 
  
Formal votes
339,159
96.5%
-1%
 
  
Informal votes
12,221
3.5%
+1%
 
  
Total votes
351,380
94.1%
-1%
 
12 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2016 at 1:42pm
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12 th out of 21 not a bad effort for a first up  with 3 candidates
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2016 at 1:58pm
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Really PJC I wouldn't see that result as any sort of sign that they will ever get a seat. I think the same thing would be true here. Best case politically would be to align with one of the larger parties in a way that will encourage them to let us write parts of their fisheries policy and get them to commit themselves publicly to it. Not sure how possible that is, but with MMP it is a process that might be able to achieve something.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote LegaSea Community Builder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2016 at 2:06pm
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PJC - sorry you haven't seen the results you expected, I can understand why you would have stopped, if it's any encouragement I'm currently working a post with some accomplishments so that you (and your son) and others can see the momentum that's being gained. Albeit slowly. However as already stated, this is a process of time and pressure. Thank you for your 4 yrs of support along the way, it is appreciated. Maybe in time you will help again?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote LegaSea Community Builder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2016 at 2:06pm
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Originally posted by Tagit Tagit wrote:

Got to admit that disregarding any sort of political affiliation, for a regular reader of these posts that was pretty funny Herby/Mowerman.

X2.....

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2016 at 6:53pm
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Originally posted by mowerman mowerman wrote:

Don't ask for more money when many of us have contributed many a$$ in the past..broken records get annoying


That's a little rich Mowerman
Best gurnard fisherman in my street
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote mowerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2016 at 7:10pm
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Sorry Smudge. Just saying what it looks like
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote John H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2016 at 9:02pm
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MM  Surely that is the advantage of the voluntary funding model the LegaSea is developing.
You have the option of not paying anything if your views or circumstances change.

If there was a fishing License you and your son (when older) would have no choice other than to pay to go fishing. There would still be internal politics about representation and the processes they get forced to engage in...  with no option to opt out.  $100s of thousands would be spent on enforcement and admin.

Scott has just started getting communication working better than I can on an casual basis. The LegaSea team is keen to for people to see the strengths we have working within the system.  It is not always an easy place to be.  But no-one else is in that space the way we are. 
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Originally posted by Tagit Tagit wrote:

Got to admit that disregarding any sort of political affiliation, for a regular reader of these posts that was pretty funny Herby/Mowerman.


Wow.
Precise, intelligent succinct, successful, and a sense of humour.
Dave, will you marry me?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Mr Moritz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2017 at 2:40pm
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What you guys need is a couple of our west coast  Maui dolphins to set up home in the
Waitemata  Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote LegaSea Community Builder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2017 at 10:56am
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Originally posted by Mr Moritz Mr Moritz wrote:

What you guys need is a couple of our west coast  Maui dolphins to set up home in the
Waitemata  Smile


Hahahaha LOL great problem solving skills there Mr Moritz....
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote LegaSea Community Builder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2017 at 11:10am
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I apologise in advance for the length of this post...
As promised, I have done an informal summary of how LegaSea has been growing in our reach and in our supporter base the last 4 (almost 5) years. This may sound like we're blowing our trumpet however I wanted to share this so forum members can get a feel for our progress. I understand it has been hard going to get the Govt to listen and act on the values and changes we have recommended (some would say demanded) however if anyone is familiar with the principle of 'the tipping point' we need to get to a size that can't be ignored so that we will be not only heard but followed in the offices of policy management. A note to others (Tzer for example) I still have some unanswered questions to get back to you on, I need to discuss some of these with the team, with holidays on it may be a bit longer sorry, thank you for your patience. 

February 2016 was our 4th anniversary. As of that time, we had spoken to 167,432 people, from 150 different clubs, groups and organisations at over 200 events. That’s at events alone.  On top of that, we have committed to getting the word out to a broader audience by publishing monthly/bi-monthly/quarterly updates in various magazines such as NZ Fishing News, NZ Bay Fisher, New Zealand Fishing World, NZ Fisher e-mag, Fishing in Godzone, The Adventurer newspaper and The Westhaven Boat Club newsletter.

We had made over 25 fishery submissions on fishery management issues.

Through the New Zealand Sport Fishing Council we made substantial submissions in 2016 –  check the link for more info: http://www.nzsportfishing.co.nz/index.cfm/PageID/477/ViewPage/2016-Submissions

What has been very exciting are the industry supporters outside fishing who have been coming on board.  Most notably ITM. They have come on as Platinum sponsors (2 yrs) and are getting more and more into the fishing space (I.E you will notice they are now co-sponsors of the Simrad Nationals).

LegaSea was at the ITM Pukekohe Race event a few months ago where we had video and other collateral messaging going out. The person playing a pivotal role in ITM coming onboard was Matt Watson, who has been with us from the beginning.

Our partnership with Hunting and Fishing is also thanks to Matt’s involvement.  LegaSea strongly supports Matt’s Free Fish Heads project and we have recently been doing some grass roots work with a local boating club and Marae to help distribute unwanted fish heads and frames to the community. This is going along nicely, we're very excited about this initiative. We will have more news on this developing story early in 2017.

NZ Fishing Ltd – Hooked / Kiwi Sizzler brands have said yes and have recently donated BBQs for promotional purposes.  CD rods/Okuma also came on board, awesome to see as they join other tackle brands such as Shimano and Daiwa (who incidentally we did a joint project with, our Legends Supporters got the opportunity to be Daiwa Tackle Testers a while back).

Black Magic/Wasabi are onboard boots and all – recently branding some of their new rods with LegaSea and donating a portion of sales to LegaSea. Big thumbs up to them. (Really nice rods too by the way) We will be giving away some tackle bags on our Facebook page in the coming weeks, maybe like us/subscribe to go in the draw? Inox have also donated product for promo purposes (distributed by Nacsan, another tackle company).

Club Power are now one of our Gold partners, we have almost finalised a deal where a generous amount money from people signing up with them via LegaSea will come back to LegaSea.

Other staunch (Platinum) supporters are Rod and Reel (with brands Patagonia, Umpqua, Reddington, Rio, Fish Pond and Sage) and the Salt Fly Fish operation (based on Waiheke Is). You may have also seen Clark Gayford from Fish of the Day on FB behind us.

This year we exhibited for the first time at the On Water Boat Show. We attended in an educational capacity and reached out to lots of people there. The Hawke’s Bay A & P Show in October was successful and LegaSea Hawkes Bay  did a good job in educating and signing up more people to receive LegaSea information.

Seen helping out at the LegaSea Hawkes Bay stand was David Ashby from the Recreation and Game Fishing Facebook group (10k+ members). We have been growing ties with another FB group, NZ Fishing Community (16k+ people, founder Ben Chissell), we recently collaborated with them to facilitate and promote the give a little campaign for the families who lost loved ones in the recent Kaipara boating tragedy.

Earlier this year we were at the Royal NZ Yacht Squadron at their open day, helping with a kids fishing competition. Yamaha, Wave Dancer, Honda Marine, Mustad, Club Marine all get a shout out for their support too, not to mention the boys at Marine Deals, Chesters Plumbing, Fuel 360 and did I mention Burnsco and Hutchwilco? 

Since I have started, I will have to add: Fishing Advisor (Mandy Kupenga), Boating Outdoors, DB Export, Jarvis Walker, NZ Fishing News, Top Catch, this forum website The NZ Fishing Website and Sopers Macindoe…

On the club front we have been deepening our ties with the NZACA (NZ Angling and Casting Association) They have been very supportive of the cause, also putting in some of their own submissions on fishery management issues.

The financial support we have been receiving has also helped employ 3 new people the last 12-14 months. I have come on as Community Builder, I have been managing the social media for LegaSea, also providing images for media purposes from my library and shooting/producing short promo videos. Sam Woolford has come on with the focus of grant seeking to help keep the wheels turning. He’s been contributing some excellent strategy ideas to projects like Fish Care and a webinar series to help explain and tackle the complex fishery management issues and inform the public. Paul Brislen, a media specialist, has embraced the movement and has been instrumental in helping us develop our strategy for change in the media/political landscape.  Josh Barclay shifted down to Wellington this year and helped spread our presence further abroad but he’s also taken over doing more of the content writing work for publications. I won’t show case all the old hands even though the likes of John Holdsworth and company deserve a lot of respect for their contributions (see more here - https://www.legasea.co.nz/about/team/ )  As a side note related to running costs/resources, our corporate sponsors help with the direct costs of running LegSea. All public donations go to the NZ Sport Fishing Council who then distribute the money into advocacy, education and research.

So, we’ve been going almost 5 years. We have kept growing and started to become a trusted authority / go-to organisation on fishery management issues (where it affects recreational marine fishing) for radio and TV/media.

Last year was a land mark one in terms of defining what rec fishing is worth to NZ in dollars and cents. $1.7B in economic activity is generated through recreational fishing. Rec fishers have never been able to quantify our value to the economy and now we can. If rec fishers take 6% of the harvest and generate that much money, how much would 12% generate?

If you have a look at what we have been doing, and who have been gravitating to our cause, you will see we are becoming more main stream. As I have already stated, this is a process akin to creating diamonds – the diamond of abundance will be produced from the time and pressure of those who are working hard to create it.

 

Like what you see or simply want to keep an eye out to see how we’re advancing the cause ? Then please subscribe - https://www.legasea.co.nz/subscribe/ or send your feedback directly to LegaSea at [email protected] .

 

 

 

 

 



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