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Catching Koi, your help please?

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rusky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2008 at 5:49pm
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Titanium
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Bazza's idea has some merit, but I could never see myself eating it.

You would need a holding tank that is aerated, and have the water changed on a daily basis to remove any feces if you want to keep them for eating purposes.  Not sure how long you would leave the fish in there, im thinking 5 days or more.  Trial and error would be the go.
 
The trough would be ok, just slap a piece of wood over top with a few bricks on it.  Then make a sort of canvas/tarpolean trench around to hold any spilage.
 
As for the illegal part of it, its in the containment zone where DoC don't really give a rats arse if you have them in a lake/pond on private property.  The chances of DoC coming along and having a big cry over moving the koi from the lake to a trough wouldnt be worth the trouble.
 
I'd be keen to help given it is in a weekend, and I would be allowed to spear a few for burley/bait purposes.  The taste test will be your pleasure Bazza! Dead
 
True westie, I got your PM with no message?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote herby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2008 at 6:19pm
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I reckon its a dumb idea to be honest. What is the point of it? Why not just eat one out of clean water, and one out of dirty water and compare the two that way?
As for the containment area, doesn't that mean that if an already established population exists then it isn't on the hit list, however movement of live fish is still banned?
Out of all the fish in NZ, koi would have to be one of the worst to chose for your experiment. Try it with eels or something???
 
Anyway if you did do it, you wouldn't really need to aerate the tank. just keep the water below ~35 degrees and you shouldn't kill them.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rusky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2008 at 6:47pm
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Bazza, if you want a carp out of Pupuke this summer Im sure we could find you one to try for eating purposes?

Moving of live fish is still banned, but when moving on private land the chances of DoC popping out from behind the flax bush would be very rare, if not helarious.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote herby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2008 at 6:49pm
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Originally posted by Rusky Rusky wrote:

 

Moving of live fish is still banned,

 
.....and a totally retarded and irresponsible thing to do.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rusky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2008 at 6:53pm
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So is shooting Grass Carp! Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote herby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2008 at 7:33pm
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No it isnt!
Shooting grass carp is the best thing in the world.
If fish are wild, and introduced, and not covered by any regulations then they're fair game.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Pole Dancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2008 at 9:06pm
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Calm down fellas. I understand why you'd want to keep that Carp alive but it just shouldn't be done on many levels.
Because of how noxious they are, because they are officially "noxious" etc then shooting them is a fine thing to do. Kill them all if oyu can... the info from doc on extreminating them on a farm pond is a pretty good pointer to how tenacious they are. SHOOT THE LOT!!!
www.clarkreid.co.nz   FFF Certified Casting Instructor / Umpqua Designer Tier
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote bazza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2008 at 9:18pm
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 Hey
 Some really interesting debate going on here ( see what you
 have started TW ) even if we seem to have varying points of view.
 
 However this matters little in the overall picture, so long as attention
 is being focussed on the general problem re koi & we all respect each
 others right to their personal point of view.
 
 To this end Herby cannot say that I agree totally with your line of
 reasoning on a couple of points such as switching experimentation to
 eels ???
 
 Considering that here in NZ we have not only the largest eels in the
 world but also some species not found anywhere else then they surely
 deserve protection against, rather than for any experimentation, to make
 them even more tasty. I was guilty as anyone in being ignorant of the
 fact of just how fascinating creatures our eels truly are & what a truly
 remarkable life cycle they have, but fortunately now know differently.
 
 Anyway back to the question of Koi .......... the purpose of the proposed
 "experiment" was to see if koi could be treated in such a way as to make
 them palatable. Yeah we could take a freshly killed one from clean water
 to compare against one from less clean water for comparison but I feel
 should go further by also comparing one that has been "purged" from
 holding in a tank of clean water. Doing so allegedly is supposed to make
 all the difference to the eating quality & you refer to this as being the
 traditional method in Eastern bloc countries for preparing koi as a special
 treat for Xmas.
 
 Hey Rusky, don't be a piker, have to admit I don't relish the thought of
 eating one either, but despite our age differences am sure we were
 both taught as kids, that if we think we don't like something  then it
 must be good for us! Just think of it in terms of your supreme contribution
 to science mate & you will be just fine.
 
 Cheers
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote herby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2008 at 10:00pm
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I did not expect you to agree with me!
By switching to eels you do not risk establishing a new population of koi. Simple as that.
What else do you not agree with me on?
 
Anyway I do not see any point to this 'experiment', isn't it pretty much a waste of time? The eastern europeans have proved it already, so why is there the need to do it here, and in the process put waterways at risk of gaining a population of koi?
If you want to eat koi from clean water, just catch them in clean water.
As an obvious regular user of freshwater resources surely you should feel obliged to do all you can to keep them in good condition [the waterways, not the koi Big%20smile]?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote bazza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2008 at 10:44am
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 Hi all
 Seems to be quite a diversity of opinion here, which is a
 "healthy" indication that the forum is performing one of the
 functions intended.
 
 However one important point we ALL seem to agree on is
 that koi SHOULD be eliminated & the intended purpose of
 the proposed experiment, was that it might prove helpful in
 some way towards this objective.
 
 I cannot accept, however that simply experimenting with
 one or two fish under controlled conditions, then killing them
 shortly afterwards would pose any threat to the environment.
 Conversely it is acknowledge, that taking it beyond that point, 
 could have certain implications.
 
 One important positive aspect resulting from this discussion/debate
 (call it what you will) is that it has focussed or revived attention
 towards the very real problem that koi present to our waters,
 for which we have a new member "True Westie" for instigating it.
 
 When a bow hunting club can hold a one day social event in the
 Waikato & harvest  4 1/2 tonnes of koi (see post on Capt. Morgan
 Bar pg. 8 titled free bait & burley) then the existing methods of
 control are obviously simply not working. Therefore it would certainly
 do no harm for this thread to be kept going in the hope that someone
 could suggest a viable solution.
 
 Time for some lateral thinking I reckon!!!
 
 Cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fizzlesticks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2008 at 11:11am
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I once tried to eradicate mosquito fish from a neighbours dam. First we used a stick of dynamite, I thought the shock wave would kill the little who-as but this failed. Next we tried 3 packages of power gel (the stuff they use in quaries),  and blow the be-jeezers out of themWink. However this still didn't kill the fish remaining in the dam even though the water level was halved, the only fish we did kill were the ones blown into surrounding paddocks.
 
We ended up draining the dam which then caused mosquito fish populations to establish in the downstream waterwaysAngry. I reckon just catch the eels using traps then apply rotenone like herby suggests
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote bazza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2008 at 11:44am
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Originally posted by Fizzlesticks Fizzlesticks wrote:

I once tried to eradicate mosquito fish from a neighbours dam. First we used a stick of dynamite, I thought the shock wave would kill the little who-as but this failed. Next we tried 3 packages of power gel (the stuff they use in quaries),  and blew the be-jeezers out of themWink. However this still didn't kill the fish remaining in the dam even though the water level was halved, the only fish we did kill were the ones blown into surrounding paddocks.
 
We ended up draining the dam which then caused mosquito fish populations to establish in the downstream waterwaysAngry. I reckon just catch the eels using traps then apply rotenone like herby suggests
 
Ah ... most interesting Fizzle
 
 A bit off topic, but your story about the use of explosives reminds
 me of an incident told to me by a health inspector that was called
 in as a result of the incident .......... goes like this ..........
 
 A guy on a farm was having a problem with a blockage in his septic
 tank & consequently they could not use the toilet. Rather than wait for
 drainlayer, whilst his wife was at the neighbours' using their toilet he
 elected to attempt an instant DIY solution.
 
 As it happens he had some explosives available, so taped a weight to
 some, lit the fuse droped it thru the tank ventilation & quickly retired
 a safe distance. After the explosion he went inside to see if he had
 succeded in getting the system to work again.
 
 Indeed he had cleared the blockage ............... only problem was it
 had blown back thru the toilet & a cwt. or so of raw sewerage was
 hanging from the ceilings & walls, running down the hallways 
 soaking into the carpets, will leave the stench to your imagination.
 
 I gather his wife on he return shortly after, was not at all appreciative
 of his efforts, which simply goes to show how ungrateful women can
 be at times!
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote herby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2008 at 1:45pm
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Have you any idea of what 'controlled conditions' actually are?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote bazza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2008 at 2:12pm
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Originally posted by herby herby wrote:

Have you any idea of what 'controlled conditions' actually are?
 
 They would simply be conditions that would remove risk
 of any possible eventuality that could lead to further
 propagation over the few days the koi were held, before
 being killed. Rusky has made a couple of suggestions to
 which further precautions could be added.
 
 O.K. what could possibly go wrong if a koi was kept in a
 covered trough, in an isolated place, a tarp to contain any
 spillage from splashing & not exposed to rain.
 
 I can think of many other examples that present a far greater
 risk/threat & already prevail but to mention some of them could
 be regarded as being racist.
 
 Cheers
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Hairy Little Dwarf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2008 at 2:18pm
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Anyway....In a feeble attempt to steer the thread back to the original story:

Why not just chuck a net across the pond/lake, keep clearing it and eventually your carp crisis will be over?

The Dreaded Shark-Eating Man!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kenshin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2008 at 2:34pm
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Step 1: Drain the pond till water is knee deep on the lowest part.

Step 2: Bring along a flounder spear and wade.

Step 3: Spear anything that moves and looks like a koi. Have fun. 
Be patient and calm – for no one can catch fish in anger. –Herbert Hoover
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rusky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2008 at 5:38pm
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You cant simply keep netting a pond to get rid of any carp.  Koi Carp would have no doubt spawned at some interval and the eggs are burried or sitting in the mud.  Even when the lake is drained and dried, there is still sufficient moisture below the surface to keep them eggs in good nick so im told by DoC.
 
A question for True Westie, why does your mate want the koi carp removed in the first place?  Are they in plague proportions?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote sbeehre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2008 at 9:58am
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sounds like a nice lake and potentially a great fishing resource! what you should do it try to remove all the small fish and only leave the biggest ones in the lake.... that way you keep the numbers down reducing their impact and the fish will just grow and grow :) if you remove the big fish it just creates more space for smaller fish and you get a population explosion.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote sbeehre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2008 at 10:01am
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Originally posted by True Westie True Westie wrote:

Greetings
A friend of mine has a small lake on his property at Coatesville (north of Auckland) which is over-run with koi. I have made one attempt to catch them but was a total failure.
I have a small light-weight bait-caster rod with a suitable 'egg beater' reel. Any idea what sort of rig I should use? Floats perhaps? And bait? (I do have plenty of worms at home).
All and any ideas/suggestions would be most appreciated.
Cheers 


just use a 2oz fixed sinker with a small hook on a 20cm trace and sweetcorn from the can for bait. The larger fly hooks ie size 8 are quite good, i use the black magic g8 hooks a lot. Once your line is in the water just keep throwing corn out there around your hook to attract them in. Also you dont need to hold the rod as the weight of the sinker will set the hook for you....
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rusky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2008 at 7:57pm
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Originally posted by sbeehre sbeehre wrote:

sounds like a nice lake and potentially a great fishing resource! what you should do it try to remove all the small fish and only leave the biggest ones in the lake.... that way you keep the numbers down reducing their impact and the fish will just grow and grow :) if you remove the big fish it just creates more space for smaller fish and you get a population explosion.
 
Thats the dumbest idea ever, bigger fish means more eggs which creates lots of fish.
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