Out with the "Twelves"

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote betterthanwork Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 6:12am
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Nice to see you guys are still out there keeping the NZ fish honest.
 We are travelling around Greece at present and the fishing here has been well below average.  In fact a couple of nice squid are the only offering worth bringing to the table.

Here is our boat for the next 2 years or so while we explore Europe (I would prefer to be nailing angry snaps but you can't have everything eh Wink I look forward to catching up all my old fishing buddies when we finally return.

Cheers

Alan
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Far Quirk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 12:55pm
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Hey Alan - enjoy your tour!

Report from yesterday 3/1/18

Like the previous report on 1/1/18, all fishing was done from rod holders, so no jigging skill at all. Each of the lures spent quite a bit of time unattended, and when retrieved at the end of the drift, some were covered in wispy brown weed.  This tends to invalidate the comparison between lures.

Bit surprising that a 43cm snapper still caught after midday.


Combined with the data from 1/1/18 it's clear that the orange/yellow kabura is a very good lure.  Maybe the lighter weight of the green kabura counted against it, but drift speeds varied from 0.9 to 2.2 knots, and it should have been OK at lower drift speeds.



Pretty big tide, but wind was against the tide so kept the drift speed down by using a small drogue.


Winds swung from SE to NE during the session.  Pretty light and caused no issues.

The snapper are still spewing up shellfish when they surface.  There's an example on the bottom left hand corner of the board below.  This might be why orange  and new penny are good colours.


Other notes:
Caught a live undersize scallop (80mm) on the green kabura.
Too many boats around the naval docks, so drifted right down the middle of the city channel.
Far Quirk - I'm goin' fishn!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Jofly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 1:04pm
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Great results in the middle of a major city Clap

Love looking at the data too, need to go get an orange 60g kabura now.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Foxtrot Oscar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 2:46pm
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Hi FQ. Fascinating concept this data collection and great presentation. Makes good reading for a Newbie.

I'm interested in getting my Z-Mans down to the bottom better and notice you list 2oz sinkers. I can only see 1oz OA heads in the shops - How are you getting heavier heads, Adding ball sinkers or something??

Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Grunta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 2:52pm
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Originally posted by Far Quirk Far Quirk wrote:

...Report from yesterday 3/1/18...
Great info Geoff - many thanks for your on-going great contributions to this thread and the forum generally. Top stuff Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Far Quirk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 3:18pm
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Hi FO

1 oz is usually enough, and I've caught some of my bigger fish on half oz.  With bigger tides (over 3m in Auckland), 2 oz helps keep the lure on the bottom.

Worm hooks are good, and this is a good special:
https://www.fishingdirectnz.co.nz/shop/Shop+By+Product/Soft+Bait+Lures/Jigheads+%26+Tackle/VMC+Worm+Hooks.html

Trace: 15 to 20lb fluorocarbon

VMC worm hook sizes 2 to 5 depending on the lure size.  A size 3 works well with the 4" Zman range.

Copper keeper to stop the soft plastic lure being pulled down the hook.  I'm using household 240V wire, diameter about 0.7mm.  You may think it's expensive, but Zman secret sauce "drag juice" seems to improve the catch rate.
Far Quirk - I'm goin' fishn!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Foxtrot Oscar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 3:42pm
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Thanks FQ. Most helpful. It's the current in the Rangi Channel that I have to combat.

It was Andy at Silverdale who put me onto Softbaiting in the first place but I never visited their website before. He sold me my SB (Okuma) rod & (Daiwa) reel as well. 

I got a pack of 3 x Z-Man "Paddlerz" from a 'Clearance Bin' one day but they didn't have sinkers and so I gave up on them 'cos they were too floaty. They did come with that shaped hook so I'll give them another go. Adding a sinker seems 'obvious' now that I see it. Is a Uni-Knot OK on the hook? 1m or 2m of fluoro??

I do use the Secret Sauce - Anchovie & Garlic and Bloody Tuna. 

Am also getting some micro-jigging gear (from Kaveman) to deal to the above-mentioned current.  My Saturday Skipper doesn't want to drift in the City Channel.

Thanks again. Off to get some copper wire...

Edit: "Paddlerz' are in fact called "Swimmerz" - See below and thanks to TMK.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Far Quirk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 4:27pm
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Hi FO

A 1m trace is enough.  With swapping weights I let it get down to about 40cms long before I replace it.I use a uniknot but the purists think a loop knot is better to give the lure more movement.
Far Quirk - I'm goin' fishn!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Foxtrot Oscar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 5:18pm
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I can tie both the Lefty's Loop and the Uni-Knot. (And my FG is improving...) I don't want to hijack this thread so I thank you for the replies FQ and I will start a thread in "Newbies"to pursue the concept of 'Heavy SB's'.

Perhaps you'd be kind enough to pop-in there and re-post your pic?

Cheers!Cool
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Macca99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 7:25pm
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I've been getting some of the bigger models on the pink lately as well FQ. I gave up on the green.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The Tamure Kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2018 at 12:10am
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Originally posted by Foxtrot Oscar Foxtrot Oscar wrote:


I got a pack of 3 x Z-Man "Paddlerz" from a 'Clearance Bin' one day but they didn't have sinkers and so I gave up on them 'cos they were too floaty. They did come with that shaped hook so I'll give them another go. 

Hi FO,

I suspect those bargain bin lures are the 6" paddle tail Swimmerz lures Paul Senior originally imported - he promoted their use using the Ocean Angler 'Cyclops' 2 oz or 4 oz rigging method, mainly for work up fishing out wide in the Gulf. They came with a big worm hook, as you describe. Here's a pic (of the same lures in 4").
Z MAN Swimmer Zs
If you look at YouTube you'll see those lures are popular in Australia for mangrove jacks and barramundi, and there is a mark II in newer colours. They have been usurped in popularity in NZ by various jigs in the workups, and by various other soft baits, hence the bargain bin!
I think you might struggle dragging a 6" Swimmerz in the Rangi channel, although I'd definitely give them a go casting for a kingie around the marker buoys. The paddle tails have magic action on a straight retrieve. Let it sink down a few seconds, swim it past the buoy and hold on!!
For dragging, I'd recommend you get a packet of 4" Z Man curly tails, and maybe a packet of 4" Gulp grubs (if you don't mind a few tails being bitten off) as well. But FQ's results with kaburas also give you a big pointer.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Foxtrot Oscar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2018 at 12:39am
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Hi TMK. Yes, that's them. I just pulled the packet out - I have the 6" version of "Sexy Lady" (#2721 colour  2nd from Left in your pic).
The hook has a very small lead section and 2 x rubber O-rings which are moved up against the body, according to the instruction card, to hold it all together. 

"Swimmerz" is the name, not 'Paddlerz'

I do have some 4" curly tails (New Penny) and some Kaveman Paddle Tails in my box and was just gifted some Gulp Nuclear Chicken Jerk Shads at Xmas. Also have some of Kavemans Sliding Kaburas and Inchiku's - (I treated myself to an assortment box.)

So many options/choices/traps...

Thanks for the tips TMK. I shall steer clear of Bargain Bins in future I think.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kaveman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2018 at 7:29am
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Interesting data FQ but not really enough data to be fool proof. If you have green kabura(or any colour that is not working) try changing out to a different colour skirt. Green head and red skirt works very well. We mix and match often and sometimes that  saves our day
www.kavemantackle.co.nz
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The Tamure Kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2018 at 12:11pm
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Originally posted by Foxtrot Oscar Foxtrot Oscar wrote:

I have the 6" version of "Sexy Lady" (#2721 colour  2nd from Left in your pic).
The hook has a very small lead section and 2 x rubber O-rings which are moved up against the body, according to the instruction card, to hold it all together. 

I shall steer clear of Bargain Bins in future I think.

Sometimes the bins have some gems, but usually oddities which are there for a reason.
BUT, as I said, those lures have a great action if retrieved erratically. I definitely would try rigging one on a big jighead (5/0 hook), or even just that worm hook, on a heavier spin stick and cast it around the Rangi channel markers or any work ups you see in that area. 
Dawn, before you start your snapper drifting, would be my tip. I think there will be a kingie with your name on it.

The Gulp jerk shads are stiffer and require a bit more action from the fisher, better cast and retrieved in sharp jerks rather than dragging. The New Penny is a great first option for the dragging.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2018 at 12:33pm
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Fishing that many rods FQ how do you detect any bites on the drop? You tend to get bigger fish as the bait descends but you have to watch you line carefully. I can't fish two rods never mind 4! LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Foxtrot Oscar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2018 at 12:34pm
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Thanks TTK. I'm trying to absorb all that. I'll give the Swimmerz another run on my 'heavy' rod (Okuma Revenger combo) although it's loaded with mono. 

I appreciate your sharing of wisdom. Cheers!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Far Quirk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2018 at 11:27pm
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Muppet

To be honest I hated fishing four rods.  As you say, you can't give each one the attention it deserves.  Some of the things I didn't report from 1st & 3rd Jan reports:
- it's not very safe for one person in the city channel to have their attention divided so many ways
- at least 4 hookups each day weren't converted to landed fish because other fish were being played, the line from the latest hookup went slack, and the fish slipped the hook
- for the 2 days of fishing, only one 4" nuked chicken soft bait and the hook and sinker it was on were lost
- all the Zmans were otherwise still usable, and both Kaveman kaburas were undamaged, with both long strips intact
- losing less kaburas is achieved by fishing them almost directly under the boat ( steeper line angle causes more foul hooking of the bottom)
- looking for nicks in the traces and braid, and removing/replacing damaged line is important and soaks up quite a lot of time.

The reason for fishing 4 rods was to collect as much data as quickly as possible.  However the fairness of the data was compromised by factors already mentioned such as weed covering the lures and sitting there half an hour or more with no regular checks to clear the weed.

The optimum number of rods per person (if numbers of fish caught is the success measure) is possibly 2 or 3.  But if satisfaction and bigger fish are the target, then 1 rod is best.

Despite all the negatives above, the data is still interesting, at least to me.
Far Quirk - I'm goin' fishn!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The Tamure Kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2018 at 8:01am
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And FQ I think it would be fair to say you and Muppet are fishing totally different styles? 
My understanding it that you've found the harbour channel fish are hard on the bottom, grubbing for shellfish and or other crustaceans, not looking up for baitfish - so you're never casting ahead. 
You've developed a very specialist technique to target those channel fish by dropping to the bottom as fast as possible, then dragging. you may get some takes immediately the bait hits the bottom, but most are once you have the lures set, bumping along behind?

Whereas Muppet is using the classic SB style of casting ahead of his drift and watching the line like a hawk for fish which grab the bait on the way down - when the majority of the takes occur (even though us lesser mortals than Muppet still fail to detect a few takes, I'm sure).

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote brmbrm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2018 at 1:16pm
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Very impressive bit of work there FQ - I mean the record-keeping and analysis.  I have occasinoally started doing thet then give in.  Must try harder!

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Far Quirk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2018 at 1:40pm
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Hi TTK

You've nailed it Lester.  I've spent lots of time casting ahead in the city channel but eventually worked out that the catch rate was a bit better with fairly heavily weighted lures in the rodholders.

My typical setup is 2 rods in the rodholders and one cast ahead, or drop, jiggle, let out say 3 metres of line, jiggle, pause, let out another 3m of line and so on.  Works well with 1/2 an oz.

Thanks for your comments BrmBrm.  Love your reports.
Far Quirk - I'm goin' fishn!
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