Hardcore Glass Boats

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    Posted: 11 May 2018 at 4:33am
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Hi All

Just a general question as to why Fiberglass boat builders in NZ are not building boats that are more practical like these boats in Aus?




They all produce epic glass boats that are no frills type setup, with no carpet, bugger all cabin (huge positive if just day trips) and that ride great in a sea.

Downsides are they are expensive to build, heavier to tow, not as great for beach launching and require more HP.

I can understand alloy is cheaper to work with from a labour point of view and that the demand would be considerably lower compared to Aus but I am convinced boats like this would sell well in NZ.

Interested to hear peoples opinions.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Big -Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2018 at 6:56am
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Fiberglass boats with planing strakes moulded in to the hull, require less hp to keep them planing, as they lift well, unlike alloy.
I have a glass boat that cracks 2 tonnes with 3 adults on board, and with 130 hp in the back it performed fairly well.
you can't fix an idiot with duct tape, but it does muffle them for a while...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Don18025 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2018 at 7:57am
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Penty, I agree that fibreglass Boats are the bee knees.
And we do still build some really good ones - Haines Hunter, Buccaneer, Tristram, Rayglass etc. build excellent hulls but they are in the top of the market.
No one is building a good work horse like the old Sea Nymph V146 that was the first boat for many kiwi fishers.
The market has been taken over by alloy hulls as you have observed.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MarkE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2018 at 8:06am
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Originally posted by Penty Penty wrote:


Downsides are they are expensive to build, heavier to tow, not as great for beach launching and require more HP.

 


 
I think you may have answered your own Q....
Sea Strike 18' Centre Console - Under Construction....Build Thread here
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote feeder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2018 at 8:18am
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Probably the only NZ fiberglass manufacturer of a dedicated fishing boat is Seaforce in Hamilton, check out their website, Rick Lawrence sells direct to the public, I can vouch for the Seaforce 600, which I use on the west coast, 24 degree at the transom. The underfloor stowage I can lie down in.(catches marlin too)
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bounty Hunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2018 at 8:49am
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i think with fg boats there is a lot of time and cost in a mold - but once thats done they are cheaper to flop out than an alloy ali with all the welding and grinding involved.

as such - you need a decent sized market to sell a molded fg boat to - and that is where AU has an advantage with more potential customers. 

also in AU - beyond the estuary fishing where very light 'tinnies' rule - a lot of the sea fishing can involve a long run, frequently over 30nm - look at the size of the fuel tanks they put in their boats - and these long trips encourage people to place more importance on a soft riding hull - rather than stability at rest and cockpit volume like we do

having said that - i love the look of the 'old school' AU fg boats and like you wish there was someone producing boats like them over here. that and fg catamarans too.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bounty Hunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2018 at 8:56am
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i think your comment on hardtops may be also partly the answer - whilst very popular over here with our colder weather and hotter sun - they arent so in AU - although they seem to be catching on a bit more.

i think a lot of NZ hulls have 'moderated' in an effort to carry hardtops - whereas in AU theyve stayed with deep-vees and soft tops.

the 3 really aggressive deep-vee hulls here - smuggler695, HH 650, and seafoce 600 - arent available with hardtop - in smugglers case they add pontoons to the hulls for stability on the hardtop model. i dont know about the seaforce - but the HH650 is already a tender boat and theres no way it could carry a hardtop as it is now. 
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Originally posted by Don18025 Don18025 wrote:

Penty, I agree that fibreglass Boats are the bee knees.
And we do still build some really good ones - Haines Hunter, Buccaneer, Tristram, Rayglass etc. build excellent hulls but they are in the top of the market.
No one is building a good work horse like the old Sea Nymph V146 that was the first boat for many kiwi fishers.
The market has been taken over by alloy hulls as you have observed.

i think the market is too small for production boats at the cheap end. 

tristram is at the top of the game - yet only sell 70odd hulls a year. they make big and expensive boats that quickly soak up the cost of a factory, the mold and staff on hourly rate.

compare to alloy ali boats - a farmer with a shed who can weld can make his first boat or two without a huge CapEx to dip his toe in the market. and then if they have some success they can tweek things, add more models etc very simply. this is pretty much a case study for Surtees and Extreme.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bounty Hunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2018 at 9:23am
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Originally posted by Penty Penty wrote:

Hi All

Just a general question as to why Fiberglass boat builders in NZ are not building boats that are more practical like these boats in Aus?




They all produce epic glass boats that are no frills type setup, with no carpet, bugger all cabin (huge positive if just day trips) and that ride great in a sea.

Downsides are they are expensive to build, heavier to tow, not as great for beach launching and require more HP.

I can understand alloy is cheaper to work with from a labour point of view and that the demand would be considerably lower compared to Aus but I am convinced boats like this would sell well in NZ.

Interested to hear peoples opinions.



you could probably get the Seacraft Miller Moyes guys to make you a 'no frills' Haines - the 650 still has a separate floor which isnt a moulded piece so likely to be able have it done in a textured flocoat - the same could be done with the inner gunwales - leaving any upholstery off
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2018 at 9:54am
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whilst very popular over here with our colder weather and hotter sun - they arent so in AU - although they seem to be catching on a bit more.

 Yep..Head out in autumn thru early summer for a day on the water, fishing what ever...and as also suggested,  most of our days cover 30 to 45 nm if bin doesnt start to fill while setting up rod still in sight of the ramp..
That Southerly has a bite to it, espec when ones bones/ joints are getting  bit older. A cabin, bimini or basic hard top goes a long way to warm shelter as boat turns into the wind..
Spring to end autumn, if not out regular, that sun will burn you to a very uncomfortable crisp for a few days after.
 Then throw in a few wives, children / grandchildren..

As to Glass /alloy.. lot of that depends on end use.. be it more shallow rivers/ bars/ shorter trip diving... glass is a far better ride and warmer over night.. and quieter.

No one is building a good work horse like the old Sea Nymph V146 that was the first boat for many kiwi fishers.

 fully agree on the few work horse builds/ hulls now..  But in the day, the sea nymph range was up in the top of the line, where as the fleet line came .. on back in the day standards... more no frills
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Penty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2018 at 10:32am
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Agree with all the comments above. I just really love the look of a 20ft fibreglass boat with heaps of deck space, nice Bimini and rocket launcher and a a great ride to boot.

Don’t get me wrong there is some great glass boats around like 650 Haines and Rayglass 2150 etc but they are all a bit “pretty” and “cabin” orientated.

Just shows NZ is a totally different market to Nz.

Another interesting discussion is older fibreglass hulls with big old 2 strokes (sf600, Rayglass 620, Buccaneer 605) are relatively cheaper as compared to equivalent alloy boat and I know what boat will ride better in a big chop/swell.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Titahi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2018 at 11:57am
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Originally posted by Penty Penty wrote:

Hi All
 why Fiberglass boat builders in NZ are not building boats that are more practical like these boats in Aus?







Demand and market share.......Pure economics. 

its the antithesis of Kevin Costners " Field of dreams' 

If you build it, It will sit on a sales yard :(


"I love standing by the ocean and just knowing what its for"
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The Tamure Kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2018 at 3:13pm
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It may be bias due to the YouTube clips I watch, but it looks to me like the biggest sellers over there - north of the Tweed border anyway - are centre consoles with the steering often well back, including some great looking glass boats used to zoom out to the offshore reefs and islands.

Lure fishing rules over there, which seems to be what dictates the design practicality with space for multiple people to cast lures, and no hard tops, cabins. If they want to sleep, they spread out a swag and it's nice and balmy.

For the same reason (nothing to impede rods) they don't have sun shelter, which is a paradox given the heat - fishos over there typically wear long sleeved high-tech clothing, and buffs, gloves etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2018 at 4:58pm
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Lets also not forget most of the Aussie population is on the east coast..  lea of the common prevailing winds.. and the land mas in all directions behind.
Then throw in that Aussie, except Tazzy and maybe Melbourne is all above the notorious roaring 40s.. that goes thru NA around Taupo...
 Huge difference in seas...those sheltered by lea of land 

 NZ is skinny short which means lea of land ends far closer in to shore.
 A quick nip out to the barrier is very different to doing similar trip in aussie.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote out2sea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2018 at 11:19pm
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I am a little bit jealous of the fibreglass boats in Aus too obviously the hardcore boats like the Cootacraft, Edencraft, Sea Devil and Whitepointer don't produce the numbers that more mainstream makers do. But they are designed to do Long runs out to the shelf in fairly average weather and to do it quickly and reasonably comfortably. So its not uncommon to see one of these boats with up to 400hp on the back of a 6.5m Hull. I believe most of the hulls are based off old Haines Hunter Moulds from back in the dayjust modified a little bit or Formula moulds for the larger boats. But they are definitely dedicated fishing/ spearing boats.

There is also a huge "old school Haines Hunter" following over there where guys will buy an old hull and strip it back to nothing and rebuild it as a centre console or with a wavebreaker and big fuel and horse power capacity.

If you really want to see some of these types of boats in action or just to see what Penty is talking about check out some of the videos on a Youtube Channel called "The Captain". 

I certainly have a soft spot for these types of boats and if there was someone in NZ building similar boats I would really consider buying one. I'm just not quite game enough to rebuild an old Haines hull myself.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Penty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2018 at 11:30pm
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Originally posted by out2sea out2sea wrote:


If you really want to see some of these types of boats in action or just to see what Penty is talking about check out some of the videos on a Youtube Channel called "The Captain". 



Yep, the video series on Youtube is unreal. The 6m shootout is a real interesting watch!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kandrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2018 at 8:39am
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We build some really great offshore tinnies in NZ and they are very easily customised for the type of fishing you do and perform as well as a fibreglass boat on the water.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bounty Hunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2018 at 11:03am
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Originally posted by Penty Penty wrote:

Agree with all the comments above. I just really love the look of a 20ft fibreglass boat with heaps of deck space, nice Bimini and rocket launcher and a a great ride to boot.

Don’t get me wrong there is some great glass boats around like 650 Haines and Rayglass 2150 etc but they are all a bit “pretty” and “cabin” orientated.

Just shows NZ is a totally different market to Nz.

Another interesting discussion is older fibreglass hulls with big old 2 strokes (sf600, Rayglass 620, Buccaneer 605) are relatively cheaper as compared to equivalent alloy boat and I know what boat will ride better in a big chop/swell.

i suspect my next boat will be a another hh650

i would go a fixed ss/canvas bimini - their folding ones rattle and shake too much and are unnecessarily high - unless you are really tall - id have it low like a choptop roadster - im not that tall.

no seating on the helm side and on port side a back/back mounted on a frame so the iceytek can slide underneath.

no seating across the transom - and just sopac style hatches covering the battery compartment - these changes would add a lot to the cockpit volume.

i like carpet on the floor - but have it in two pieces and just domed down so it can be easily removed for drying.

one of the problems with the hh650 is the 'only' 190litre fueltank - there is a bulkhead immediately at the fore end of where the current tank sits - but miller moyes can put a second tank - connected thru the bulkhead to the main - just infront - which would add approx and more weight below the floor 

battery/s - would be mounted in the cabin under seats where they stay clean/dry and are easy to maintain.

engine would be yamaha 300 - my previous boat had the 250 - which was then the largest they had put on the 650 - but they said theyd have no issue with the 300 - which is same weight - but significantly more expensive. prop might need to be something a bit special - the s/s yamaha 19" is perfect for the 250 but the 21" was far too long - not sure if a 300 would be able to drive it -something in the middle is likely to be right

bowrail would just be a low profile set running fore-aft either side of the foredeck hatch - makes it much easier going over the bow at the ramp

standard HH transom ladders are arse - so id have it custom built much wider and angled better

and ask HH to specify normal leaf-springs instead of their normal durotorques on the trailer

prolly could be done for about $125k
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fish Flakes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2018 at 9:07pm
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I can't see why nz glass boat manufactures dont build a deck mold more suited to a real offshore fishing boat in the 5.5-6mtr range. Do away with the cabins, add more freeboard, big bait tank, large windscreen/wave breaker, large fuel capacity and good rigid stainless bimini and rod storage.

I like the idea of the tall transoms and having a side gunwale door. Is a popular option in Aussie and the US.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Capt Asparagus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2018 at 10:58pm
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That is the reason I bought my Challenger 680HT....purely open deck space, no faired in sinks, tubs or anything, just piles of open deck space and huge high gunnels.

It is only my overwhelming natural humility that mars my perfection.

Captain Asparagus, Superhero, Adventurer.
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