Yamaha F60 won't start

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Unclejake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Yamaha F60 won't start
    Posted: 12 Dec 2017 at 10:35pm
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Titanium
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Howdy team,

We have a 2010 F60 with less than 300 hours on her (I know, it used to be there was lots of boating most weekends, but these days there's just no spare time)

It was running fine about two weeks ago, but today it would not turn over.

Symptoms:
Trims and tilts from the switch on the engine only
No response to the ignition key (will not turn over)
Gauges are blank
Will not trim or tilt from the remote
Will not start using the emergency pull cord


Checked:
All fuses with the multimeter (four under the engine cover and two in the wiring loom in the centre console)
All connections are tight
Partially opened up the console and everything I could see seems intact, but there are connections up by the gauges that I could not inspect without more dismantling
Opened up the remotes and everything is intact
No sign of electrical corrosion
All other systems seem fine (i.e. the battery is good)

It's a bad time of year to have a boat problem. Can anyone offer a probable cause?

Question: Does the remote trim/tilt still work when the kill lanyard is pulled out. I'm hoping to eliminate the kill switch
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote RC1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2017 at 6:58am
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no power, battery has a dead cell, may seem like it has power but it is possibly shot, had the same issue this weekwith another boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Dagwood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2017 at 7:31am
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Originally posted by RC1 RC1 wrote:

no power, battery has a dead cell, may seem like it has power but it is possibly shot, had the same issue this weekwith another boat.


Not one to doubt you given your expertise but how does that explain the trim switch on the motor is working but the one on the remote isn't?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2017 at 7:58am
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 Do you have power at the starter terminal?
and at the main power feed to the gauges going into the back of the consul?

All other systems seem fine (i.e. the battery is good)
 Do you mean things like bulge pump, nav lights, vhf gps all work fine?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote OuttaHere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2017 at 9:21am
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I reckon the battery is rooted. Went to go for a fish on the old man's boat a month or so back, Yamaha 40 2-stroke, tilted up and down fine, fishfinder was on doing it's bit, blah blah, turned the key to start and it did precisely nothing.
Trying to crank over a motor uses a whole lot more electricity than the rest of the electrical loads on most boats combined.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2017 at 10:45am
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If it is like the larger yamahas (and I remember correctly) the -ve feed from the batt goes to the starter motor case and the +ve feed from the batt switch goes to the starter solenoid and from there direct to the trim relays. From the solenoid there is a wire that goes to a fuse that is your main to the helm controls via a fuse.

From what you are seeing it sounds like that main +ve feed to to the helm is broken/high resistance somewhere or the key switch itself has failed. More inclined to be suspicious of the key switch getting wet in a small boat but not super common problem. I assume you have a fishfinder or similar that is powered from the helm off the same batt? If so there should be a point where you can access the +ve feed to the helm somewhere to measure the voltage at the helm. Even put the meter probes into the fishfinder power cord. If you have voltage there, try measuring it when you turn the key on and off to see if anything changes. A high resistance connection will let you measure voltage until you try to turn something on and then it drops away.
If you get stuck you can get meter in hand and call me so I can guide you through some tests. Few PXTs and a bit of discussion and it should be sorted unless it is more than a bad joint, fuse etc.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Unclejake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2017 at 11:25am
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Thanks all. 

The ancillary electronics (spot light, GPS, VHF, pump etc.) are all working well and the motor trims up and down at normal speed when using the switch on the engine cowl, but but the engine will not trim using the switch on the remote control.

The main power cables from the battery to the engine look great at both ends, but I haven't put a meter on them yet Tagit. I'll get back there on Sunday and will dismantle the center console more so we can check for a corroded wire somewhere. It's a dive boat and has zero shelter so salt does get driven inside the console, but everything I saw last night looked great. The only wiring I have been unable to inspect are those directly forward of the gauges. I need to do more work to get at those wires

We do not have a battery isolation switch. Battery to engine are hard wired (via the standard Yamaha fuses)

The electronic engine gauges are completely blank and there's no click from the starter solenoid or relay (assuming it has a relay). I'll put a meter on the battery (under load) to eliminate it, but I suspect the battery is fine

The boat is behaving like the engine has been electrically disconnected from the remote box (and gauges)

Could anyone tell me if the remote trim switch normally operates engine trim when the kill lanyard is removed?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2017 at 11:51am
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On our F150s the engine mounted trim switch works regardless of the key or kill lanyard. I expect yours will be the same.

From what you have said so far I would start by pulling the key switch and checking for voltage there and whether it is making contact properly when the key is turned. As a quick check try quickly turning the key back and forward several times in case it is just a spot of corrosion on the contacts inside.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Unclejake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2017 at 11:53am
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Thanks heaps Tagit. I'll report back as soon as I can get to the shed. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MikeAqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2017 at 12:34pm
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Should the key switch effect the remote trim switch? 

On every outboard boat I've owned/used the remote switch works with the key turned off.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2017 at 1:56pm
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I reckon the battery is rooted. Went to go for a fish on the old man's boat a month or so back, Yamaha 40 2-stroke, tilted up and down fine, fishfinder was on doing it's bit, blah blah, turned the key to start and it did precisely nothing.

 you will most properly find the sounder turned its self off due to the low voltage when crank.. or try to.
 Also a very common issue for this is not the battery, but rather someone has disconnected the battery while engine running.. electronic voltage regulators dont like that...which means battery doesnt get charged.. couple trips and get flat.

Its as said in above posts.. a matter of following the voltage...till there is none.

From what you have said so far I would start by pulling the key switch and checking for voltage there and whether it is making contact properly when the key is turned. As a quick check try quickly turning the key back and forward several times in case it is just a spot of corrosion on the contacts inside.

 And also check for voltage at the starter relay
 checking the circuit between key and relay

The ancillary electronics (spot light, GPS, VHF, pump etc.) are all working well
 Thats good.. those are on a different circuit...
 I assume they work with key on or off?
 So thats eliminated.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Unclejake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2017 at 5:14pm
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Point noted wrt looking for voltage until there's non Steps.

The ancillaries are all on a different circuit to the engine, and have always worked regardless of the ignition key setting (as has the remote trim until yesterday).

I'll pull the console to bits on Sunday, but if it turns out to be a dud component (rather than a failed connection) I guess there'll be no boating until mid January. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Schampy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2017 at 5:44pm
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It has to be the ignition conection in the 703 remote box. If the engine tilts on the cowl switch but not at the remote ....and all lights etc are ok the battery must have decent voltage- it must be there. On my 115 removing the lanyard still allows the motor to tilt.
Im with Tagit.... something to do with ignition barrel. 
If theres power there surly all the gauges would light up? Might be a case of pulling the barrel out and dealing to it with some wd40 or replacing it all together?
If the engine wont start on the pull cord.... does that mean that the ignition circut is still broken due to fault at the key? therefore not sending power to injection pump etc?


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Durban Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2017 at 11:54pm
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You need to check for continuity , get someone to help you disconnect the positive cable from the battery 1st. tell the other person to turn the key to the start position and hold it in that position while you check with your meter one lead from meter on the positive cable you disconnected from the battery the other lead connect it to the + on the starter solenoid if the meter shows continuity you all good with the + line , do the same with the negative line on this line your mate does not have to hold the key .The other possible problem you may have is that your motor has a actuator switch somewhere its like a safety switch that bridges the negative line between the starter solenoid the older 1970/3 Johnson's have them . best is get a electrical diagram .      
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Unclejake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 2017 at 2:41pm
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The short story is: I give up and will get a professional to look at it next year. There were quite a few corroded connections between the remotes and gauges, but after cleaning them up still no voltage at the remotes.

It will need to wait until next year. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Okarito Kotuku Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2017 at 7:23pm
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HI! have you had any luck sorting out your F60? we run a tour operation on the south island - west coast - and our F60 (2014) has been perfect but today wouldn't turn over - battery is fine and tried a different battery - it started up 3 times through the day, but not every time - can't see anything wrong.  Desperate time of year especially considering our location....! any advice??

cheers!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2017 at 10:14pm
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Do you hear the solenoid activating? One of the first things to try is that the terminal posts on the battery are clean and tight.
Best gurnard fisherman in my street
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Okarito Kotuku Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2017 at 9:14am
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Hi smudge thanks for the response - battery terminal posts all good - turn key on and just hear a whirring, then turn key off and on again and then nothing at all.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2017 at 10:51am
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- battery terminal posts all good - turn key on and just hear a whirring,

 
So you turn the key the starter mptor just "whirrs" spins , but doesnt engage?

On most starters you hasve the main battery terminal.
 and 2 other terminals.
 one is the solenoid terminal.. that part that 'throws' the bendex spring and gear into the engine fly wheel to turn it over..
 If solenoid doesnt work, and or the benex , spring mechanism is broken the motor will just "whrrr"

Generally , this happens intermittently a few times then dies, just a whirr..

If you jump (key off) with a screw driver, from the main battery terminal to one of the other thermals.
 and yeah you put a few amps so expect a good spark.
1/ the motor will just whirr.. that will be the motor terminal
2/ Get a solid click, will feel the gear being thrown inside... if doesnt then soliniod / bendex is broken.
 Any be anything from corrosion on the copper disc inside, ( couple $) to broken spring or bendex full of crap.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Durban Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2018 at 12:20pm
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We all thinking its the starter solenoid , don,t overlook the starter Relay .
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