sea nymph gullwing floor / stringer replacement

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote mikejf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2017 at 3:47pm
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I looked my tow ring after reading your comment steps and it is indeed at an angle. But luckily it is above the floor and I have to tackle the hull stability before anything else. Before I started everyone of my bulk heads and stringers had rotted away. Both the wood and the glass. The boat would ripple from the front to the back when I stepped in it.

Ill tackle the structure and floors and when thats done I will take care of the rest.  :)
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote mikejf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Aug 2017 at 1:13pm
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I have now installed all of the forward stringers, bulk heads and spars that will support the floor. They have all been coated in resin then covered in a layer of csm mat. I ground the whole forward area out and then hand sanded it all followed by a hoovering session. At the same time I also ground out the existing floor edges to a 12:1 ratio for later glassing.

Then I covered all of the forward bilge in a coat of white flow coat. When that is dry I will use "peanut butter" glue of fit the original floor. I have to restore the floor pieces before I relay them, sanding / resin coating and where necessary more glass.







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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote mikejf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2017 at 12:59pm
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I have started relaying the original forward floor in my Sea Nymph/16. I ground out all of the top edges to as close to a 12:1 bevel as I could. I then used peanut butter glue to stick the floor pieces to the new stringer and bulk head tops. I sanded and then coated the under sides of the floors in resin. I also glassed the sides of the foot well for extra strength.

In order to fill the voids around the edges I glassed up some thin sheets of 200g csm and then glued those under the floor seams so that I could glass on top of them for a good finish. Im going to go out now and buy some 5mm ply as I found that filling all seams with glass uses a lot of resin and csm. The original floor was created from a layer of 5mm ply and a couple of layers of glass. It is very strong and I guess I can save resin and time by starting the hole filling off with a thin layer of ply.

So far Im pleased with the results, Ive just layed down and weighted the large section of the forward floor so I will leave it for a day or so to set. Next steps will be to fill in any remaining voids and then add a few forward drain holes. Instead of having the water drain into the central bulk head ( a recipe for disaster over time ) Im going to have drain holes at the lowest point in the foot well straight down into the bilges.












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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Nivapulledout Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2017 at 3:47am
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Looking sharp Mike 

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote mikejf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2017 at 11:35am
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Thanks Niva, next steps will be to fill on all the gaps with glass in the forward section. Gluing down the large section of floor was a bit frantic as I had to act fairly quickly ensure that all parts of the floor were in contact with all bulk heads equally. I ended up resorting to loads of bricks for weights as well as two nails.

On a side note I would say that health and safety is important. Ive been using disposable rubber gloves but still getting loads of small glass cuts. One cut in my index finger I ignored until the whole thing became inflamed. I found that I had a piece of glass trapped in there that cause the problem. Cant work for a couple of days now :)
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2017 at 12:07pm
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Yeah it is "sharp"
Thinkng ahead again....storage selves, and lining down the sides?
Looking at the pics hard to tell if there is a shelve glasses to the sides...
I pulled the factory shelf panels (well all the cabinetry redesigned replaced) in the commander.
 Side panels Used 5m ply, cause could put a twist in it, foam carpet underlay glued on and over the edges, then used some heavy curtain material on special at spotlight.
Once a yr the cabin/squabs gets a foam up and water blast and 3 times a yr gets a mist spray of gone in 20 sec @15%


Cost.. wood work everything $120.. labour about 2 days.
Best tool and electric stapler.
Stuff up.. I used the original squabs except the 2 centres to make a bed .. didnt have them. I put carpet underlay squares over the and pulled down the new covers ... stapled too tight, which made a hard mattress to sleep in for the wife.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2017 at 1:14pm
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On a side note I would say that health and safety is important. Ive been using disposable rubber gloves but still getting loads of small glass cuts
. One cut in my index finger I ignored until the whole thing became inflamed. I found that I had a piece of glass trapped in there that cause the problem. Cant work for a couple of days now :)
Dunno if you have ever worked with SS .. one thing you learn VERY quick is ANY cut you de burr...if not you have a paper cut on steroids lol
Same goes with  F/glass.. that sanding block and paper everything something cure up

And the harder.. espec isophatic. get the tiny est bit down the side of a nail....well thats up there with  a very bad weld flash. If ever had one of those you will understand what I mean

you can take all the precautions.. say a new guy on thr floor, tell them the graphic  consquiences.. but till they get that flash , or hardener, or infected cut, they will not sand down every time.
The infection very 1st sign or earlier, plie into a few magnesium/ sulphur/ zinc tablets.. a good high iron meal (kidneys on toast and real orange/ citrus juice...At least that limits infection and infection time.
 Old school stuff but bloody works.



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote mikejf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2017 at 1:53pm
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Read you loud and clear steps and have to say I agree. By the way I love the commander, when I have played with this one a bit the Commander is the next one I want. I like the way that its put together.

So for cushion material did you have to choose something that would be OK for the marine environment ? Have you had any issues with it ? I will be doing the same soon and just wondered ?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2017 at 3:24pm
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So for cushion material did you have to choose something that would be OK for the marine environment ?

 The cushion and panel material are the same

No.. dont have deep enough pockets for that...my thoughts where I needed X meters roughly Y colour of material... including the deck panels, and very tight budget.
The material I chose on special is a heavy curtain material and has a sort of rubbery , MAYBE semi water resistant (???) backing.
And at the price way under $100 , if it screwed up after a couple seasons, the 'accountant' would not growl very hard.
 Rem we are out at least a couple days , often more per month, and the boat is outside under a big sale cloth, bimini up full time.
 So 5 yrs down the line, boat always washed down, carpets pressure washed, often water blasted... the gone in 60 sec stuff @ 10 to 15% (put in a gun sprayer mix from a %L concentrate container)
 Still all good.. very good in fact
Would I do it again the same? thats the proof of the pudding
Hell yeah.. I recon have a good 10 yrs min in them.
 Any window leaks will run down over upholstery surfaces, drip on cushions
Make sure that the cabin windows seal 100%... the rubber seals make sure the join is at the top of windows, and pack up with bathroom or fish tank silicone.
If use urethane marine sealant, or windscreen seal, that stuff is near on permanent.. if you ever have to pull a window you will destroy the seal and have a labour intensive clean up

Keep in mind 8 of my regular week day crew are members here
If the above is just theoretical BS Im sure they would be letting us know.

PS Maybe should right a book.. if knew howErmm
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Big -Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2017 at 5:39pm
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Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:

OK another thought.. the Tow ring in the bow.. what the winch hooks on.
I broke mine, and apparently its not uncommon. Once I had finally get it and the bit out could see what had happened.
1/ the diameter of the studs thru the keel rail I considered just a little under sized for the job.
2/The position in relation to how the winch rope hooked on...was not square.
 This in effect put all the load on only one of the studs at an angle, finally snapping it...fortunately at the ramp.

I
re positioned a little higher.. the top hole thru the bow became the
bottom new hole. Being of greater diameter I was able to re align the
hole more square without getting slop in the fit.
I dont see yours on there???
 maybe something to lok at before floors or more work happens???




I recommend everyone with an older fiberglass boat, should pull their winch eye out and inspect it. My stainless kne was very corroded, and when we think of the strain kn it, and its holding the boat on the trailer...
you can't fix an idiot with duct tape, but it does muffle them for a while...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2017 at 9:07am
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Anyone been towed back to the ramp by the Coast guard?
They have a routine question.. " Is Your Tow Eye/ towing point in good condition?"
Its reasonable to assume the skipper is aware of the condition of the boat and fittings right?.. If they are not and things turn to custard.. its the skippers legal responsibility at the end of the day.
 Therfore if the towing piont fails under tow the coast gaurd , having asked the question, has no responsabitlty, rightly so.

The break above was NOT caused by corrosion of the stainless, even thu appears to be so.
The cause of the failure was due to near all load being on on only one of the suds due to the angle its was mounting thru the keel. This in time caused fractures and stresses in the shaft, over the yrs getting a little dirt rust appearance in those stresses.
 Basically if your eye is lower than a straight line off the winch hook, all load will be sideways... If the eye is level or slightly above (taking into account the angle they go thru the keel) sideways load is greatly limited or nil.
 Good stainless doesnt corrode, is not magnetic, and is not designed for high sheer loads. .. over stress the crystal structure will open the ferrous components to rust.. if rusts, its the over stress thats already do the damage.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote mikejf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2017 at 4:07pm
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I have now sealed the Sea Nymph V16's front compartment by using 7mm resin soaked cut outs to fill the gaps and covering this with 400g csm. I have created peanut butter resin fillets to blend the changes into the existing hull. I have also started filling the forward floor, sanding between each application. The front compartment floor up to bulk  head 1 is now solid and sealed. I still have to add drainage holes.

I need to complete filling and sanding but I thought that I would move on and raise the rear floor next. Sort out the rear bulk heads, stringers and floor before contemplating final filling, sanding and painting. So the next step will be to empty the boat and start cutting the rear floor and raising in perhaps three sections. I must say that Im not looking forward to more glass grinding and the associated dust but it has to be done ...













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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote mikejf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2017 at 10:55am
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So I have raised the rear floor in my Sea Nymph V16 in two sections so far and the pictures below show what I have found. Rotted out stringers and broken supporting fiber glass and spars. I was able to walk on this floor at the rear with very little "bounce" so it makes me wonder what state a lot of old boat are in under the floor. On the plus side these are very simple stringers to replace and there are no major bulk heads to add, just two cross spars to support the floor.

I still have to cut out the rear most section but I want to change the sump well for the bilge pump so that it sits at the bottom of the bilge and I have a view of the water in the bilge. The removed ply wood floor is in good condition and can be reused.

I think I will need to investigate the transom while I am down there, it sound good from the outside whilst tapping but Ive noticed some soft areas around bolt holes. Might as well investigate now to avoid issues later.












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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2017 at 2:02pm
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Considering front damage , consistent...
Another thought..again comparing with commander (with under floor fuel tank/ storage... future possibilities (??)
 The keel and stringers each side all come up the same height to support the floor/
In the commander the floor is 'split' into 3 sections length ways
 Each side fixed floor to the stringer.
Then from top of floor, like a H section on its side with opposing bits missing alloy strip. This supports the centre section that can simply lifted as a carpeted ply unit.
Under this sits the fuel tank..resting on couple stringers / foam lengthways each side.
IF the bottom of the tank was V rather than flat, it would also rest on a keel much lowers than yours..(and therefore hold more fuel)
 Each of the side compartments have drains into the rear bulge....
There is no bulk head going right across in the center...
The tank is held forward.. so doesnt slide rear wards by a block of wood  bolted to the side compartment in the bulge.
Basically the area down the centre (fuel tank space) and rear bulge compartment are all one.
 The front compartments drain into this.
Which is a pain in the butt.
The center floor lifts easy enough...but to access the drain plugs from the front sections, one needs to slid the fuel tank rearwards a couple inches.
Also when on the trailer, the bow end of the fuel tank is higher (unless drop off tow ball and drop right down on jockey.. even then still marginally higher).
This creates a huge air bubble when filling. Most a tanks breather and fuel take off are in the rear.
If wish to go down this route, consider the level of the tank when on the trailer at the pump.

 There is a bit wood left side just above the bulge get rid of it.
If that area where oil tanks batteries, general storage is smooth/ clean make wash down easy.
Mount oil tanks and batteries with a LOT of consideration for easy access AND access to what holds them down.
Enough room to stand here with a rod toes just under the edge.. without kicking battery box. Sure bit wasted space behind, but that means crap washed own from carpets doesnt get stuck in behind.. can be hosed out easy into centre bulge.
 Anyway just a few thoughts to consider.

 Oh only carpet to where u stand..

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote mikejf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2017 at 12:55pm
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I have started grinding out the glass and rotten stringers in the rear of the Sea Nymph V16, its a horrible job so I think I will split it into two or three sessions. The photos that I have added here may be a little confusing so I will explain. The first three images show that the remaining rear floor has been removed whilst the last one shows the grinding progress so far.

Most of the wood is rotten but then strangely there will be a 30 cm patch in the middle of a stringer that is still good. Still it all has to go. Next steps will be to finish grinding out the two outer stringers on each side. Then I will use string lines to size, create and install the two outer stringers. I will then use those to level the rest.

I found that this process was quite accurate in the front, I had a difference of about 2mm between stringers in the front but that was probably caused by the glass.













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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote mikejf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2017 at 4:09pm
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I have finished grinding out the four outer rear hull stringers in my Sea Nymph V16. A horrible, messy job that I am glad is finished. I still have most of the rear central stringer in place but I will tackle that when the first four are fabricated and installed.

I accidentally managed to grind straight through the hull, at least I only did it once :) I will have to fix that before installing the first stringer. I have set up string lines with 10cm stations marked on the hull to size the stringers. These values have been transferred to cardboard templates for fitting to the hull. After that the actual stringers will be cut from 12mm ply and laminated with gorilla glue.















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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Betty Boop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2017 at 9:05am
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Hey don't worry regarding the grind through. ......I recall my client gel coating his new 50ft Wave crusher hull mould and forgetting to add the catalyst. ......sorry Ian, I realize that's supposed to be a secret lolololol😨
Last week I joined an Anti-Social support group........They won't talk to me!

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote mikejf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2017 at 12:39pm
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I have created, shaped and sanded the two outside rear hull stringers for my Sea Nymph V16. ( I have also added holes for drainage. ) The undersides have been coated in resin and then glued into the hull with polyester peanut butter. Shaped brackets have been used to screw them into place while the resin sets then I will take the dimensions of the other stringers from string lines and the tops of these stringers. I will have to wait a day for the resin to set before continuing.

Next steps will be to complete the peanut butter fillets between these stringers and the hull. Then I will glass them in using a combination of woven roving and 600g csm.







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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2017 at 3:07pm
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Considered the height of the keel and stringers either side to provide storage / under floor fuel tank, as I suggest above?
 Means fixed / glassed in floor panels either side, and lift able centre  panel (s) over tank/ storage?
 Front compartments drain under tank in the bulge, either side of the keel, back to drain compartment at stern.. which has external drain bung hole(s)
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote mikejf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2017 at 7:09pm
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Hi Steps .. I did think about your suggestion but I am just planning to replace what I found for a number of reasons. I want to limit the budget and time involved as well as keeping things simple. The only change that I am planning is the siting of the bilge pump in a new recessed sump at the back.
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