Targeting kingi's

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    Posted: 06 May 2017 at 7:25pm
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Hi, new forum dude here. So I've been targeting kingys this year, gotten close a few times, but haven't landed one. I've got a stick baiting set, strayline set and a live bait set (plus the bait catcher rod). If you had to leave one setup at home what would it be? What do you reckon is the most consistent way to catch them?
Had a couple of large king's cruising the edges of the rocks today. Showed no interest in strayline baits , tried stick baiting, but no luck. But didn't have the livebait set with me. Can't help think I might have left the right set at home....
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote PE Pete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2017 at 7:50pm
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Leave the strayline set at home unless you wanna catch snapper...
Use berley if you can. Activity breeds activity IMO
Pete
Tight lines
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Goobernator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2017 at 8:16pm
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Yeah always got the berley going. My closest chance came from a kingys turning up and me feeding it whole pillies then a strayline one. Ended in a bust off. But a few other times they showed little interest in whole pillies/anchovies.
I guess having a livie out whilst stick baiting is more activity than throwing pillies around.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The Tamure Kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2017 at 8:19pm
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Hopefully LBGer or JK will jump in - Scott (LBGer) has done some good articles in NZ Fishing World and Bay Fisher about that very thing. he goes armed with both livie and top water rods. Covering his options.
In contrast, the latest NZ Fishing News has an article by a guy based up at Whitianga who's chosen to go the stick baiting way - leaving the other two rods and all the extra gear required for live baiting at home, travelling a lot lighter on the rocks.

From personal experience, land based top water fishing is a very frustrating, but rewarding activity. I enjoy soft baiting and other kinds of lure fishing, so gravitated towards top water. I've had some memorable takes so far.
But it is one of those things where the odds of casting your lure when the kingies are coming past, and them going for it, is not that high. You need to be prepared to expend a lot of time and effort without a result.

As Pete says, having berley in the water is likely to get activity going, and attract passing kingies. Chunking pillies in addition to a standard berley trail is a good idea.
But there are plenty of examples (check out YouTube) of guys top water fishing from the rocks without berley and getting kingies. You just need to be prepared to have long periods of futile casting.

A third option, which some people swear by, is to toss dead piper  on their top water or other heavy spin gear - that is a bit of a lost art, and is said to work when all else fails.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Goobernator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2017 at 9:47pm
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Started out with top water, after chasing kahawai on light tackle lure fishing,( plenty of futile days doing that too). Started to get desperate, so got a live bait rig, which kinda led to bait fishing,as you need the bait to catch the bait. I will admit one of my favorite unsuccessful ways to catch them is topwater. But would like to get one under the belt all the same.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The Tamure Kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2017 at 10:12pm
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As you'll see in my post in the forum a while ago, it took me hours of trying at my local rocks before I landed a kingie on top water, and it was just under legal. But hugely rewarding.
I've got some more since then in other spots, and my confidence is growing.
Given you know kingies cruise your spot, it's just a matter of time and effort and hopefully you'll be rewarded. 
Try mixing it up with some of the popular sinking stick baits - which are more forgiving of non-perfect sweeping - or the shallow diving Rapalas, little poppers, even 7" plus soft baits that look piper-ish, or jack mack-ish.
Good luck!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote jac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2017 at 9:51am
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Put your livebait out and cast yr stickbait around it. Worked for me last week. Caught on a Hammerhead Cherry pai 180 floating stickbait
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Goobernator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2017 at 6:38pm
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Nice one! Yeah, decided to do that today. However a kingy showed up before i even had a livey out. Grabbed the stick baiting and had a few follows but no takes. Need to get a decent livey setup as quickly as possible to maximise stickbait time .Had to settle for yellow eye mullet, which went for a ride but no hookup. Ever so close.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote jac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2017 at 7:50pm
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One works off the other and all depends what they are up for. Casting stickbait can bring fish in and attract them into your livie and if they're not up for that they might be up for yr stickbait. Good luck bro.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote shaneg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2017 at 7:55pm
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There are some less sexy equally effective ways of taking large kings than using livies or lures from rocks. Years ago I caught lots of them and big ones and by far my most favourite method was using a large bobby cork and large dead piper hooked through the eye, often just lobbed in front of cruising kings. The rod I used was a composite developments 9 foot custom landbased rod, 100 to 120lb long shock leader attached to 24 kg main line fished on a highspeed 4/0 senator. Today you could use leverdrag of similar size and perhaps go braid although heavy mono probably easier to cast.
Hardest part was always making sure had good supply of large fresh piper. Five or six baits were usually enough for day. sometimes I'd just snapper fish with the big rod rigged beside me for when kingi cruised past the ledge. And leave rigged bait on rod ready to go often wrapped in wet cloth so it didnt dry out.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Rocksteady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2017 at 8:25pm
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Just my thoughts:
I wouldnt leave any of them at home mate.
When they are hungry, kingies will smash anything you put in the water but most of the time this isn't the case.
I've caught most of my fish on livebaits. Next would be on dead pillies or piper sight cast to fish in the berley. Last would be on topwater.
Having said that though, Ive spent a lot more hours with livies in the water than lures. One thing I have definately noticed is a correlation between increased livebait strikes after throwing around surface lures. I definately think that these two techniques help one another... as others have said, activity breeds activity.
Having said all of that, I've had kingfish turn up in the berley, scatter all the bait fish, sniff a livie and then steam off with a pillie dropped in front of its nose. I always keep a heavy setup with a single hook sitting nearby the rock edge with a handful.of defrosted pillies or piper next to it for exactly this. This is the first setup I rig when I get to a spot because you never know when a fish will turn up, and they usually don't hang around for long so you need to be ready.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote laidbackdood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2017 at 8:30pm
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Shaneg/RocksteadyWink
Berley goes without saying......so get that going straight away......
Then set up your stickbait set up........have 6 or 7 casts.....see if there is anything around......if no action....set up your live bait set and your strayline set......get your livy rig set up with baits....check your berley area....any live piper around or yellow eyed mullet(kings love them!)...........try to get a lively live bait out as soon as possible........
       Continue to strayline as well if you wish.........but there is one very important factor that you need to consider.......are you fishing on your tod? ....because this can have serious consequences..........if you have a live bait out and then you stickbait as well....if a king takes the stickbait.....you could really be in the **** with a possibe tangle with the live bait........if you have a mate with you...he can wind in the live bait quick pronto while you fight the king on the stickbait/popper.................
I remember when i got my 48 pound one at kawau(i did most of my fishing on my own)....I had a live bait out on a tld 25.....a strayline rig out with a pillie and another rocky ready to put a fresh piper on........i had a big run on the the live bait tld 25 ..had a huge ray on it and it bust me off....the king turned up in the trail .....so looked to wind in the strayline rig= Snagged......whackkkk bust it off........quickly put a half dead piper on the rig...went to cast and the king was at my feet....dropped it in front of it and it took it.....i only had 2 thirds of a spool...so lucky me........On your own.......you can really get yourself in the **** with too much going on.........with help on hand.......you can have a livie out but you can try and attract kings with a rattly popper or stickbait..........my choice would be fresh piper on hand....preferably rigged and kept wet.....ready to cast out(if signs of baitfish skittering)................a live bait out and strayline set in hand ........if livey shows signs of going off....wind that strayline set in hard out and get to your live rig (if on your own!).....you cant beat a fresh piper(best bait)...IMHO one of the most preferred kingy baits because they are easy to suck em in.Wink
Once the idiots turn up..Im outta here...No time for Drama Queens.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote laidbackdood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2017 at 8:46pm
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Originally posted by jac23 jac23 wrote:

Put your livebait out and cast yr stickbait around it. Worked for me last week. Caught on a Hammerhead Cherry pai 180 floating stickbait
Nice fish bro but i hope you had buddies with you to help you out?...or did you manage to land him while your L/B was still out?....If so....lucky you.Wink
Once the idiots turn up..Im outta here...No time for Drama Queens.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote jac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2017 at 8:59pm
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Chunking with Sanma in yr burley trail work's and when they show up put one out unweighted with a recurve hook in it. Bingo
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote jac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2017 at 9:03pm
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Originally posted by laidbackdood laidbackdood wrote:

Originally posted by jac23 jac23 wrote:

Put your livebait out and cast yr stickbait around it. Worked for me last week. Caught on a Hammerhead Cherry pai 180 floating stickbait

Nice fish bro but i hope you had buddies with you to help you out?...or did you manage to land him while your L/B was still out?....If so....lucky you.Wink



Hey LBD,

Had help. Other chap in background managed my livie once I'd hooked up and provided the vital gaff shot 😉
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote laidbackdood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2017 at 4:38am
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Originally posted by jac23 jac23 wrote:

Originally posted by laidbackdood laidbackdood wrote:

Originally posted by jac23 jac23 wrote:

Put your livebait out and cast yr stickbait around it. Worked for me last week. Caught on a Hammerhead Cherry pai 180 floating stickbait

Nice fish bro but i hope you had buddies with you to help you out?...or did you manage to land him while your L/B was still out?....If so....lucky you.Wink



Hey LBD,

Had help. Other chap in background managed my livie once I'd hooked up and provided the vital gaff shot 😉
hahaha....Didnt notice that guy in the background!
 There is a lot to be said for having a buddy on hand.....Good for emergencies as well......i was walking a trail one day ...just me and my mate......i slipped ...fell straight down onto my knee and hit this big boulder square on the knee cap !......I nearly pewked......15 mins later i was ok ...limped on and walked it off but that could have been dodgy if i had been on my own..........Kingfish in breadcrumbs for dinner? with some sashumi as well?
Once the idiots turn up..Im outta here...No time for Drama Queens.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Reel_Tech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2017 at 7:14am
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Hi Goobernator

The most consistant method for targetting kings off the rocks is hands-down livebaiting. Ive fished side by side many times with very experienced topwater fisherman (including Dennis Verreet) over the years and catch rates on average nearly always favour livebaiting. There are a few exceptions including lack of baits to swim and when sharks are so prolific livebaiting becomes impractical (this is the case at allot of my spots at times).

If youre a trophy hunter like myself, you can swim large baits to 'weed out' smaller less desirable fish. The bigger baits will be left untouched by pesky rats and if a bigger fish swims by it will inhale it. This is something stickbaits lack as even a rat will execute the largest lure. In saying that though, adjusting bait size is all relative to what you want to acheive wether it be to 'just catch a kingfish' or targetting a trophy.

If you are going to concentrate more with livebaiting, take note of the average size of fish you see at youre spots. If you see mainly small to medium fish, swim smaller baits if they are available. Youre results probably wouldnt be so good if youre swimming a 2kg+ kahawai when the the size of the general population of kings at a spot is mainly 10kg. Straylining baits like fresh dead piper is also an option but the problem with just 'blind' straylining deadbaits is you get too much by-catch. It is far superior to run a burley trail and sight fish kings when they turn up in the trail. Have youre deadbait pre-rigged ready to pitch.

Another thing to remember is when you are trying to do three things at once (straylining, topwater and livebaiting) youre attention is compromised. I have seen too many big fish lost by guys swimming a livebait left in the holder whilst casting stickbaits around. By the time you wind back your stickbait, put the setup down, run over to youre livebait rod and pick it up that fish already has a big head-start on you. I never put my livebait outfit down, its always in my hands for this reason.

Set yourself a goal and stick by it, which ever methods you are going to use. My goal is a 50kg landbased king, I have hooked, seen and lost a few fish close to this and run heavy tackle all the time. That is my goal and I fish exclusively for that fish everytime I livebait and I wont stop till I get him.

So far my tally is 4 x 40kg+ landbased kings (best was 45kg on 50lb test), countless 30kg+ fish (on 15kg, 24kg and 37kg lineweights) and several in the 20's and high 20's on 10kg line.

Its a challenging sport (compared to 'boat fishing' for kings) which is what makes it so addictive.

Good luck with it all!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The Tamure Kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2017 at 9:27am
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Great input, Reel T. 
With any kind of fishing, trying to do two things at once can leave you master of none. Experienced that just yesterday when snapper fishing from the boat, when my main task was to help my little fellow - landing, baiting, sorting tangles etc. In the meantime, when my Baitrunner in the rod holder went off with a big fresh bleeding jack mack bait he'd caught on sabiki, I wasn't ready and dropped two good fish. But it was more important that he had a great experience.

Dennis and the likes of the MorningTide guys - who have a vid with Dennis chasing GTs - have chosen their passion, which is lure casting. And they obsessively try to find shelves and isolated spots where they can do that. They put in many hours for relatively low catch rates. But they expect that and celebrate their catches accordingly. Lots of yelping and high fives.

You have gone the opposite way, but seem equally driven, and that list of catches speaks for itself. Awesome stuff.

Each to their own, and I think that over time, people gravitate towards what they enjoy most.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote jac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2017 at 12:24pm
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Originally posted by Reel_Tech Reel_Tech wrote:

Hi Goobernator

The most consistant method for targetting kings off the rocks is hands-down livebaiting. Ive fished side by side many times with very experienced topwater fisherman (including Dennis Verreet) over the years and catch rates on average nearly always favour livebaiting. There are a few exceptions including lack of baits to swim and when sharks are so prolific livebaiting becomes impractical (this is the case at allot of my spots at times).

If youre a trophy hunter like myself, you can swim large baits to 'weed out' smaller less desirable fish. The bigger baits will be left untouched by pesky rats and if a bigger fish swims by it will inhale it. This is something stickbaits lack as even a rat will execute the largest lure. In saying that though, adjusting bait size is all relative to what you want to acheive wether it be to 'just catch a kingfish' or targetting a trophy.

If you are going to concentrate more with livebaiting, take note of the average size of fish you see at youre spots. If you see mainly small to medium fish, swim smaller baits if they are available. Youre results probably wouldnt be so good if youre swimming a 2kg+ kahawai when the the size of the general population of kings at a spot is mainly 10kg. Straylining baits like fresh dead piper is also an option but the problem with just 'blind' straylining deadbaits is you get too much by-catch. It is far superior to run a burley trail and sight fish kings when they turn up in the trail. Have youre deadbait pre-rigged ready to pitch.

Another thing to remember is when you are trying to do three things at once (straylining, topwater and livebaiting) youre attention is compromised. I have seen too many big fish lost by guys swimming a livebait left in the holder whilst casting stickbaits around. By the time you wind back your stickbait, put the setup down, run over to youre livebait rod and pick it up that fish already has a big head-start on you. I never put my livebait outfit down, its always in my hands for this reason.

Set yourself a goal and stick by it, which ever methods you are going to use. My goal is a 50kg landbased king, I have hooked, seen and lost a few fish close to this and run heavy tackle all the time. That is my goal and I fish exclusively for that fish everytime I livebait and I wont stop till I get him.

So far my tally is 4 x 40kg+ landbased kings (best was 45kg on 50lb test), countless 30kg+ fish (on 15kg, 24kg and 37kg lineweights) and several in the 20's and high 20's on 10kg line.

Its a challenging sport (compared to 'boat fishing' for kings) which is what makes it so addictive.

Good luck with it all!


What months are you typically targeting the bigger fish John?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote laidbackdood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2017 at 5:39pm
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Bigger fish are around from autumn and into winter.......less numbers but bigger and fatter specimens that can handle the colder water temps.......
Interesting read there  Reel Tech...Good points and some great captures...well doneThumbs Up.....Trying to do too many things at once is not good but life is always easier if you have a buddy nearby.
         Its particularly dodgy come gaff time when you are on your own but i always enjoyed the serenity of loan fishing......Brought out the caveman in me hahahaha......esp at Great Barrier.....I did a few overnighters at GB in the winter ,on my own......Not for the faint hearted that one.Wink
Once the idiots turn up..Im outta here...No time for Drama Queens.
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