INLINE or TREBLE HOOKS FOR STICKBAITS ?

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    Posted: 21 Jan 2017 at 9:38am
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Hi All, I am working my way through setting up my topwater set,,   next decision is Trebles or Inline hooks ?  I have been recommended going for Owner ST66 4/0 (trebles)  for the bigger stickbaits i will be using. Does anyone prefer inline hooks and if so what are good brands and size to buy that would be equivalent to the 66's ? 
Any advice appreciated, Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Fishy11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2017 at 7:34pm
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Hi Captain. Gav. The trebles vs singles question is one that you will get responses from both sides until the cows come home with pros and cons on both sides.
There's no real right or wrong, both work but sometimes one or the other will work better on a particular lure, sometimes a bit of trial and error is needed, other times you may be able to see what someone else is using and getting success on the same lure.
Out of interest what are you referring to as 'bigger stickbaits'?


Any of the following are good hooks to use along with a few others i can't think of at the moment. Just match the hook size to the size of the lure and make sure the belly and tail hook can't interfere with each other.

Trebles:
Owner ST76 or ST66
Mustad Kaiju
BKK GT Rex & Fangs
Gamakatsu GT Recorder
Shogun Extreme

Inline singles:
Mustad / Kaiju
JigStar
Shogun Viper
BKK / Nomad
VMC

Hope this helps a littleThumbs Up



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote PE Pete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2017 at 8:38pm
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Treat ya self your fishing mates,your deckhand etc and go with barbless trebles IMO
Tight lines
PE Pete
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote captain.Gav. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2017 at 8:51pm
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hi, by bigger stickbaits i mean 120-150 gms and 200mm or longer.   
Thanks for your advice on brands.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote laidbackdood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2017 at 5:41am
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my two cents worth..."make sure the belly and tail hook can't interfere with each other.".....Yep they musnt be able to overlap and hook onto each other...that goes for treble belly and single on the tail option  too.
some stickbaits will only work with trebles.....some now have been designed to work with inlines.........even some manufacturers are making stickbaits with inline singles eg nomad...
Carpenters tend to work only with trebles...I have a siren lure that needs a treble on its belly....it sucks with inlines.....
Yet both the shimano ocea pencil and starwalkers work better with inline 7/0 than the st66 3/0 they suggested to use on them........i found that out by testing myself.
My Ral lures were designed for inline singles.....
The big charter operators have banned the use of treble hooks....i think mainly because they fear being impaled on one of them.........some say trebles offer a better hook up rate............I have just changed all my treble hook stickbaits with barbless trebles.......If i had a choice of being impaled with a barbless treble compared to a inline single barbed hook...id choose the barbless treble........i also think a fish would prefer that too........something lance from enchanter certainly didnt agree with.........If i get bust off by a fish......a kingfish could throw a barbless treble quite soon....with a barbed inline single it could be death of the fish.........For some reason all the big charter operators in the top spots...never trialed barbless trebles....they just outright banned them..........they are not easy to find either......maybe because anglers think its easy to crush the barbs and that will do........it wont......a barbless treble will slide out very easily compared to a crushed barbed one that will still stick to a certain degree........Shogun extreme inline singles are no longer available...only size 12/0........Mustard do some cheaper ones...Jigstar....decoy are quite good but the best are Bkk inlines* from nomad........they have a welded eye....that is very desirable....... the owner st76 is a very strong treble hook........Gamakatsu GT recorder *(barbless 5/0 up)and BKK do a barbless treble as well.......but finding a 3/0 barbless treble will be very difficult........The most important factor is asking what is the best match to the lure you are buying ie recommended rigging.....They usually get it rightWink
* the best IMHO.
Once the idiots turn up..Im outta here...No time for Drama Queens.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote laidbackdood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2017 at 5:44am
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Originally posted by PE Pete PE Pete wrote:

Treat ya self your fishing mates,your deckhand etc and go with barbless trebles IMO
I have barbless 3/0 4/0 5/0 6/0 and 7/0 now Sir Pete...If i get dusted by a fish ...i want it to be able to throw my lure and stand a chance to survive.
Once the idiots turn up..Im outta here...No time for Drama Queens.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote captain.Gav. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2017 at 9:42am
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Again Great info given here by all, thanks Laidback and others.
I will be running a carpenter gamma as my main lure so the info that trebles work better on that type of lure was great thanks.
Will also be trialing some new stickbaits from Japan that my mate has sourced, slightly less weight but look good.
Cheers, Gav.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2017 at 8:31pm
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Trouble with trebles is they do horrendous damage to fish that are released. I have seen photo's of fish with several inches long gashes down near their gill plates etc. Plus if the fish get stuck with trebles barbless or not its going to be very hard to shake off due to having two hooks grasping on. I can understand why folks use them, but I understand why pro charters won't allow them either.    
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Fishy11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2017 at 11:32pm
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Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:

Trouble with trebles is they do horrendous damage to fish that are released. I have seen photo's of fish with several inches long gashes down near their gill plates etc. Plus if the fish get stuck with trebles barbless or not its going to be very hard to shake off due to having two hooks grasping on. I can understand why folks use them, but I understand why pro charters won't allow them either.    


captain Gav. The above is exactly what i was meaning about opinions on singles vs treblesPinch

Muppet, out of curiousity how much actual experience do you have topwater fishing? for kings, GT's etc etc
Not trying to act like a know it allGeekor be disrespectful, but this statement seriously makes me wonder....
"Plus if the fish get stuck with trebles barbless or not its going to be very hard to shake off due to having two hooks grasping on."

The likes of the barbless BKK GT Rex's and Gamakatsu GT Recorders come out easy, like really really easy. Anyone who's actually used them and released fish caught on them can attest to this. (I use both singles and trebles just for the record)

laidbackdood - i can tell right away you have 'real' experience and agree 100% with your above post.

I think this section of the forum has to be one of the worst for misinformation lately. Blind opinions and things people were told by 'someone' being shared as 'fact', Just saying.





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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2017 at 5:53am
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Fair point about my experience.

But I see you don't say anything about the amount of damage trebles can do to a fish around the gill plate area which is undeniably true and not a blind opinion. The few times I have used stickbaits with trebles I have hooked the kings/kahawai in mouth as well as top of head / eyes / soft throat area. That was just with light gear. And obviously can hurt anglers / deckhands hence a lot of charters ban them.

I have had this conversation before about topwater lures with trebles with some really good fisho's and I think it is worth thinking about when buying lures that will work better with singles.  
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote laidbackdood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2017 at 8:40am
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Some interesting Leans on this subject..........I can think of quite a few lures that are coming pre rigged with singles now.........shimano spouter......river to sea killer vibes.....Nomad chug norris......Nomad stickbaits.....I think thats good for the sport....that the lures have been tested and designed for use with the inline singles.
An easy option with trebles is to crush them and thats it.....thats what a lot of GT fisherman do with singles amd trebles.........If you fancy crushing the barbs and then filing it down smooth....you could do that but i dont because i find it encourages corrosion. ...plus even the crushed barb sticks to a certain degree........you cant beat machined barbless hooks for easy slide out.
One of my mates on here used to fish barbless trebles on his carpenters off the rocks......when the fish was "ready to land" so to speak.........he used to bounce the lure up and down at his feet(vertically) to release the fish....fish was never lifted from the water and as long as it was hooked normally in the mouth......that worked every time for him.....he was using 5/0 6/0 barbless owner st66....he just shook the lure off the king.
   Thats why i buy new barbless ones...........Like fishy says......they do come out easy......Its very important to keep a tight line or you are likley to have the hooks spat with barbless hooks.......Muppet has a point with the spare treble getting into horrible places.....usually the tail hook...as kings go for the head region i reckon.........but they shouldnt get into the gills in a hurry(gill plate protection) and anglers have been fishing for GT's for trebles  for years...Gts have huge gobs on em........big kings too..........Personally i dont think thats the biggest issue with trebles mullet........The biggest issue is when the fish engulfs the lure down its gob and those trebles get stuck in the roof off the mouth etc......they can be a right prik trying to remove them(Even worse with Barbs).....and thats where a single really wins the arguement........Bigger trebles would lower that risk i guess........I think there are two shames....
1.....people pay a lot of money to buy carpenter lures ......yet they only swim well with trebles.
2....Then you are not allowed to use them at prime spots because the skipper says so.......and you are paying them a lot of money to go there.
          I really feel you should be given the option of single hooks or barbless trebles only.....They are not commonly promoted in my eyes......They slide out like that needle that took your last blood test or a bayonet !....Plus they encourage you to keep a tight line on the fish or you lose it........an important skill because you can lose fish with even a barbed hook.....from giving slack line.Wink
Given a choice.....I am leaning towards inline single lures .....mainly because of freedom to use anywhere....more than anything else........I dont see them as kinder to fish at all.....Not at all.......Imagine carrying around a 220mm 120/140  gram lure hangin out ur gob !......how you going to eat then ?...That barbed single could be hangin around for sometime...whereas the barbless dood would work free in a short time frame imho........otherwise that mean arse fish that gave you the thrill of your life for 5 mins and dealt to you......doesnt get released to fight another day......he dies from the lure that you tempted him withDisapprove
If deckies use lip grippers and can remove most hooks whilst the kings head is up in the water.....there is little danger to them.
Plenty of skips use that method successfully.....I have seen them.
Once the idiots turn up..Im outta here...No time for Drama Queens.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote laidbackdood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2017 at 9:17am
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Originally posted by captain.Gav. captain.Gav. wrote:

Again Great info given here by all, thanks Laidback and others.
I will be running a carpenter gamma as my main lure so the info that trebles work better on that type of lure was great thanks.
Will also be trialing some new stickbaits from Japan that my mate has sourced, slightly less weight but look good.
Cheers, Gav.
Its very important the lures have the right size hooks and rings Gav.......worst thing you can do is weigh the lure down .....it will ruin the action.......the right  weight leader is also important too.....for the same reasonWink
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote DenimViper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2017 at 9:50am
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Go barbless whatever hooks you use , singles or trebbles. If you keep enough tension on the line 9/10 times it will stick. I noticed how much damage trebbles actually do to the lure, it might only be cosmetic but still. Especially om likes of  Shimano Orcas / Head Dip / Rocket Dive. Carpenter can take a good beating 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Fishy11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2017 at 1:51pm
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Originally posted by Muppet Muppet wrote:

Fair point about my experience.

But I see you don't say anything about the amount of damage trebles can do to a fish around the gill plate area which is undeniably true and not a blind opinion. The few times I have used stickbaits with trebles I have hooked the kings/kahawai in mouth as well as top of head / eyes / soft throat area. That was just with light gear. And obviously can hurt anglers / deckhands hence a lot of charters ban them.

I have had this conversation before about topwater lures with trebles with some really good fisho's and I think it is worth thinking about when buying lures that will work better with singles.  


I didn't want to type a whole page re trebles vs singles hence why i didn't go into more detail regarding the damage hooks do. As i had said to captain Gav. this topic is a never ending one.

Both singles and trebles can inflict decent damage to a fish with either the tail or belly hooks. The wounds from trebles if any are generally shallow due to the smaller gape of the treble v single on the same lure. I've seen both do decent damage, as was mentioned by laidbackdood, when a fish completely engulfs a lure with trebles that's when they can be a real pain. Then again i've seen an owner jobu single go clean through a 20kg GT's head, fish was stuffed so there you go. Best thing you can do with either as others have mentioned is crush the barbs, or run barbless.

All i was getting at with the experience thing is that i'm going off actual experience from topwater fishing for kings here and fishing overseas with some of the most accomplished topwater anglers and guides in the world for GT's, Dogtooth Tuna, YFT, Coral trout etc etc

***As i said previously i'm not trying to be a 'know it all' or be like i'm all that. Am just letting you know what i am basing my opinion on***

Last overseas trip i did was in December to PNG, 9 of us from all around the world, 6 full days fishing. Hundreds of fish caught probably 90%topwater 10% jigging and didn't have a single fish that i know of badly wounded from trebles or singles.
Not saying it doesn't happen, but i've caught a decent amount of fish on topwater and it's a fairly rare occurrence.






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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Muppet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2017 at 4:09pm
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No one is calling you a know it all Fishy least of all me.

The question was asked and I think its fair to say single hooks are a viable option. I would also say there are times when the Kingie bite on topwater lures is so good you could probably get away with a single hook on the back of the lure only. I don't know much about lures but I know Kingfish and when they are biting stupid you can change it up. And on the other side there might be a day when you only get one bite and wish you had trebles LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Fishy11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2017 at 4:51pm
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Yeah i wasn't impying you were Muppet, just said it because based on past experience i know some on here can take someone saying "ive done this, or ive done that" as sort of gloating etc

I agree singles are a viable option in a lot of cases, hence why i said both singles and trebles work in my first post to captain Gav. For instance probably two thirds of my lures i use singles on at the moment, the rest trebles or a combination of both.

Just a lot of myths and misleading info out there is all i was getting at, not only in this section either but i think this, and maybe the jigging section are the worst for it at times.
The amount of times i've seen/heard/read people trying to over complicate things telling people they need to run some silly 15cm long knot to tie their jig on to catch a fish, or saying that they were running a 'locked drag'LOL anytime i hear that b.s term i cringePinch
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote laidbackdood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2017 at 5:04pm
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If you do use trebles ...get yourself some of these .....they are just brilliant.....
The picture here shows the top lure with Gamakatsu GT recorder 6/0 barbless trebles on it....unfortunately they dont fit that well in these caps....points protrude.
The lower aswb fits perfectly with 5/0 on.......This is the XXL version of owner treble caps and will fit 2/0 to 5/0 very nicely.........they are free draining and lock into place...be careful removing them or they will get you !... pull back and off to the side to release....not straight backOuch..........just remember to take them off before you cast...The bright colour should helpLOL

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote muchalls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2017 at 6:55pm
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Caught my first Kingie on my seldom used stickbait set a week ago.
Singles.
No opinion, just stoked with Kingie fever 🤒
Cleanly hooked in the side of the mouth.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Polar_Kiwis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2017 at 11:52pm
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What model number inline singles do you use for 150-200mm poppers for GT fishing?
Also what brand Kevlar assist hooks have you tried on poppers?
Here fishy, fishy fishy.... Nom, nom, nom
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kingfish15 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2017 at 3:33am
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Hi captain Gav if you want my pot of advice i reckon you run barbless mustad inline hooks as i reckon there is very little difference between treble and inline hooks. Inine hooks give a better lure action as they are more streamline with the lure.
Cheers 
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