Diesel engine won't make full power?

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2017 at 7:37am
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Originally posted by Don18025 Don18025 wrote:

Your photograph is of the wrong end of the engine and that hose is a boost pressure hose between the top of the fuel pump and water heat exchanger for the engine. 
Take a photo of the other end of the engine and you will find the turbo charger and the pressure reading port is between the turbo and the engine air inlet manifold.


I could be wrong Don, but that looks a lot like the aftercooler where the hose goes. If that engine is like the 6cyl version I have, the heat exchanger runs across the front of the engine. You wouldn't normally have a 'boost hose' from the heat exchanger to the injector pump.
Fritz - have a look under the exhaust manifold at the back of the engine where the turbo bolts on. I have a memory that on the 6cyl version the wastegate dumps from the exhaust manifold rather than the turbo housing itself. On the 6cyl version it is connected via a short 'corrugated' metal pipe. I just can't quite remember the details, but it might be tucked away right under the manifold.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Don18025 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2017 at 8:25am
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Tagit, this I believe is a picture of the engine.
http://www.ecvv.com/product/1000073050.html


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote fritzhu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2017 at 9:07am
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Thanks everyone, I REALLY appreciate the help!

The Angler, that sounds like a good plan - does anyone know if this would be a bad thing to do? Kind of tempted to fit one of those crankcase vent filters to the top of the engine where that hose comes out but being more familiar with petrol engines I wouldn't be 110% confident that it wouldn't cause some kind of cascading catastrophic failure... and being in a boat, you can't exactly just "pull over and get out" Smile

Tagit, as far as I know/have researched, these engines are exactly the same apart from some dimensions, something about the fuel pump (other than the fact it has six outlets instead of five), and that yours has an extra cylinder. Beyond that, I believe, they're identical :-) I'll have a look underneath the manifold, thanks! I focused my search on the turbo's midsection...

Don, that's exactly the engine, yup - except I have the older-style rectangular air filter assembly rather than the round one, and the rectangular box that butts up to the turbo in that photo looks slightly different on mine.

Here's what mine looks like:
http://static.baza.farpost.ru/v/1309440005252_bulletin
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote fritzhu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2017 at 9:20am
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I also found something a little odd. I haven't been able to confirm exactly but it appears as though there is another filter in the fuel line running from the tank to the engine, and immediately after that filter, one of those solid-state fuel pumps, and the line from there goes to the engine. The point being, that this little inline filter is tiny (half the size of a teacup), and looks to be absolutely ancient, pitted with rust and grime. (The filter on the engine appears brand new and has a water separator bowl.)

I'm suspecting that it probably won't be helping, so I'll pick up a spare to take along on the next test run, swap it out and see what it does.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2017 at 9:23am
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Originally posted by Don18025 Don18025 wrote:

Tagit, this I believe is a picture of the engine.
http://www.ecvv.com/product/1000073050.html




Thanks Don. Heat exchanger is on the front of the engine under where you can see a 'radiator cap' in the picture. If you look hard you can just ser the round end of it. Looks the same as our 6cyl version. The item with the hose connection is the aftrcooler and it is integrated into the intake manifold
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Dagwood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2017 at 9:27am
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Just a thought, unless you are enjoying the challenge, you may spend more cash replacing stuff that doesn't need replacing than you would for a couple of hours of an expert's time who might pin point the issue quite quickly.
 
Most would be happy to have you on their shoulder so you continue to learn and that aspect is preserved,
 
Just a thought....
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote fritzhu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2017 at 10:45am
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That is a good point. I guess that's the next step, if I can't diagnose this with simple checks. I'm handy with a spanner and reasonably good with engines and turbos, but this is my first diesel so a lot of what I know is out the window...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2017 at 11:57am
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So is that in line fuel pump actually running? Could imagine that if it isn't it might restrict the fuel flow at the top end. At a guess it has been installed as a priming/lift pump but who knows whether it can keep up at max demand. Can you post up a picture of your injector pump. There should/could be a little metal lever or maybe a big button that when pushed up and down will prime the engine after a filter change or running out of fuel etc.
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If the manual lift pump won't prime (if it has one) it could have a pinhole in the diaphram which might contribute to your issues and explain why the electric pump was added. Does the electric pump look more recent and aftermarket or original?
Was the boat like this when you bought it?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Don18025 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2017 at 9:41pm
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Originally posted by fritzhu fritzhu wrote:

The point being, that this little inline filter is tiny (half the size of a teacup), and looks to be absolutely ancient, pitted with rust and grime. (The filter on the engine appears brand new and has a water separator bowl.)

I'm suspecting that it probably won't be helping, so I'll pick up a spare to take along on the next test run, swap it out and see what it does.

Fritz, good news.
Great to see you have not given up on the fuel system.
So where is the most likely place that crap, rust & grime come from?
Suggest that you empty the tank and give it a very good clean, then add clean fuel. If you don't you end up clogging the new in line filter, so you will need a handful of them.
With diesel's you need to ensure you have spotlessly clean fuel always. Fit a Racor 30 micron filter between the tank and main engine filter if there is not one. Two is better than one.

The next thing you need to learn is how to bleed the air out of the fuel lines before restarting. Should be instructions in the engine manual.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote fritzhu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2017 at 9:43am
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So I had a bit of a fiddle last night. Unfortunately what I thought was an inline fuel filter is actually the lift pump itself - didn't see the two wires running along underneath it!

I've tracked the fuel line, and it goes from the tank to this pump, from this pump to a large filter and water separator on the engine, and from there to the pump assembly.

I also installed the boost gauge and the new air filter. Oddly enough, the boost gauge shows an ever-so-slight vacuum on the old filter at idle, and the new filter shows just about zero.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2017 at 12:53pm
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Ok we have talked about fuel filters/air filters etc when were the injectors last serviced??
The pin holes can and do clog, not getting the right amount of fuel in to cylinders,might fine at idle or 1/2 to 3/4 power but when fully opened the pump will push fuel in but may not be getting in to cylinder to burn and going back via return to tank.
Bugger that's right I a dribbling injector seat worn,(note to self).
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Originally posted by fritzhu fritzhu wrote:

So I had a bit of a fiddle last night. Unfortunately what I thought was an inline fuel filter is actually the lift pump itself - didn't see the two wires running along underneath it!

I've tracked the fuel line, and it goes from the tank to this pump, from this pump to a large filter and water separator on the engine, and from there to the pump assembly.

I also installed the boost gauge and the new air filter. Oddly enough, the boost gauge shows an ever-so-slight vacuum on the old filter at idle, and the new filter shows just about zero.
Can you post a pic of the electric pump and the injector pump area? There is no electric inline pump on the 6cyl version we have and I am suspicious that it could be an added 'fix' for a leaky manual lift pump. Your engine pumps an awful lot of fuel when running hard and it is possible that the wrong electric pump won't keep up.

The change in vacuum is consistent with a dirty filter going to a clean filter. Time for a quick sea trail and check out the boost levels,, but post those pics first.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote fritzhu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2017 at 1:17pm
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Sure thing, will do! I'll grab that pic tonight as soon as I get home.

Truth be told I don't like that electric pump. I suspect you might be on to something with it being a fix - or at the very least, a misguided attempt at installing the engine correctly. I suspect this may not be the original engine, and the electric pump was just "left there".

I do have a bunch of ball valves, tees and fuel lines left over from the last boat project... maybe I should splice up a bypass valve? (I'd be keen to remove the pump completely...)

Anyway, will do on those photos - seatrial will likely be either tonight or early tomorrow. Will keep you posted!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Don18025 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2017 at 5:32pm
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Good news Fritz.
Look forward to the photos.
Interested to note why you suspect this is a replacement engine in this hull. Your clues?

Just thinking out loud, is the fuel hose from the tank to the first in line pump a smaller diameter than it is at the engine fuel pump. If the diameter is less then someone may have attempted to use the inline pump to move more fuel to the engine.                   The installation manual for the engine would advise the minimum sized fuel line from the tank to the fuel pump. 
I am with Tagit, the lift pump maybe faulty or require an overhaul.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote fritzhu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2017 at 6:05pm
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Ah, only two clues, really - one is that the deck scuppers (usually above water, right?) are underwater at rest, even unloaded - the other is that the boat is a 1997, but the D530 was only known as the D530 until something like 1991.

I just got these photos for you. First one is of the little pump, the other is the injector pump and filter on the engine...



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote fritzhu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2017 at 12:01pm
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Okay, observation! :-)

With the new filter, peak RPM is up a little, to 3200 or so.

The boost is between 14 and 15psi at 3100rpm or so, the engine manual specifies 14.5 so this seems spot-on. I don't know if this spec is at max RPM or not. The turbo does not have a waste gate at all on this motor, it seems...

So, a question - what's next...?

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote makka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2017 at 12:36pm
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Where are you based mate? I'm happy to come and have a look at it if your in wellington
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Don18025 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2017 at 1:07pm
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Fritz, I am at a loss for an explanation.
So back to examining the facts.
First up - does that inline pump work? It might be a blockage and not much help.
Question; Did you run the engine with and without the inline fuel pump? Any differences?
Secondly check the new inline filter - see if it is clean inside or dirty.
That will give you a clue what the interior of the tank is like.

Agree with Tagit, I think you may need a professional to check the fuel pump and the injector pump. WIth so little hours and a lot of sitting round they maybe gummed up.
Take up an offer like Makka's or find a local diesel mechanic you can work with.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2017 at 4:44pm
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Originally posted by fritzhu fritzhu wrote:

Okay, observation! :-)

With the new filter, peak RPM is up a little, to 3200 or so.

The boost is between 14 and 15psi at 3100rpm or so, the engine manual specifies 14.5 so this seems spot-on. I don't know if this spec is at max RPM or not. The turbo does not have a waste gate at all on this motor, it seems...

So, a question - what's next...?

If the boost is in Spec, then you have a loading issue, compression issue, or a fuel supply (or governor)  issue. You have probably dealt with the loading issue with the prop change not improving things. 
That little electric pump looks after market rather than original. It could be restricting your fuel supply. Can you take a picture of where the hose from the fuel filter connects to the injector pump? Would like to see if there is a mechanical lift pump there or whether there has been any obvious modifications.
Does the little pump run when you turn on the ignition? I think your next testing is to work out of the little pump may be constraining the fuel supply. The dirty air cleaner obviously wasn't helping, but if your boost is within spec now you haven't got an air supply issue. What does the manual actually say about the boost levels?
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