Seachange - take note!

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Don18025 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2016 at 5:59pm
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Hi Mowerman
I believe I am on the same page as you. I would support your suggestions on commercial fishing, netting and dredging and crayfish conservation. I am a keen diver of 40 years + and I have seen the depletion of the scallop and crayfish fishery. Planning a dive trip in my own boat to the Knights late January and early May for 2017.

PJC, you are correct it was yachties who made sure many of the best anchorages did not go 100% mussel farming.....special thanks to them. 
The major yacht clubs have some folk with legal clout and influence and they did not want their anchorages taken over. They are still working on a watching brief of expansion plans for marine farms and ensuring the sustainability of the Gulf as a sailing playground.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Clutch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2016 at 6:32pm
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Obviously the Hauraki Gulf should be commercial free. Charters only.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote mowerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2016 at 6:34pm
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Some where in the middle of all of this middle ground has to be found..

Yes Im against MPA all over the place as it will concentrate the pressure into small areas, result no fish ,these areas get thrashed  then to death and of course the resulting problems of accidents .

Something could be said for a ban on anchoring which must play its part on on environment damage..
But the trawlers have to go outside the Barrier in a line to Whangarei Heads ,that frees up and takes a hell of alot of pressure off fish stocks and the environment..

Commercial   have more than enough fish outside to keep them happy ..they cant have it all ,this is where the current proposals  are taking us all..

Remember the Government or Commercial dont own the fish  ,it is a shared resource ...Commercial  should not be in the breeding grounds ..

At the end of the day folks its up to you to let this all be taken away from you or unity and a hell of a lot of noise. So far none of you have shown any signs of standing up for your rights,are you all going to sit back now and be dictated to by these idiots who only really support commercial...End of the day you will have ZILCH ...your choice !!

Iwi control of the Gulf ,you were all fore warned  this was going to happen ,they will set and dictate their agenda to us all ,anything that we were against MPI over will be like a walk in the park in the past ... They will manage and have gestapo around all over the place on the water,we will pay for all of this , Licences  ..

A revenue grab by Iwi who will hand it down the line with the Auckland Council 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2016 at 7:46pm
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You have to question why they are even thinking seriously about tying up more areas of the HG in fish farms. The government has put us on a path to massively increase Auckland's population, so there will be massive increases in the demand for already crowded anchorages each summer. So with all that pressure on the limited space available, where is the sense in tying it up in fish farms. Pretty much a raised middle finger from the government to all boaties.
There is a project down Opotiki way (I think) to put a mussel farm out at sea. That I would support as there is plenty of open ocean for everyone. The problem of course is that it is cheaper to tie up the limited and highly valued sheltered areas close to shore than it is to put a farm in a place where it won't impact on anyone.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2016 at 7:54pm
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They put a farm in kennedy bayand the tsunami we had from the japan quake wiped it out,tangled everything so a farm at sea might not work;
You can where all this heading ,Boat registration and only affordable for the elite,already started with removal of all moorings in okahu bay 2017 so iwi can reclaim their seabed etc
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote mowerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2016 at 8:26pm
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Out from Corromandel is zoned for fish farms.
300 hecs I think..that will be snapper and or kingfish.so mutations will occur       with our wild fish..pollution and disease is an issue as well.
Hopefully they won't target our pilchards.To feed them . Pellets from by catch and other matter maybe .But something goes wrong here impacts the entire gulf
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote John H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2016 at 9:07pm
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We have been working on the MPI Future of our Fisheries (FOOF) proposals. This actually has a period for consultation and submissions (due 23 Dec).
It seems the the Sea Change process had the consultation at the beginning, and the Plan at the end.
We have a chance to influence the advice that MPI give to the the Minister on how our fisheries are managed in future. Not just in the the HG Marine Park but everywhere. 

Currently it seems most of the proposals in this thread, the Sea Change Plan and the FOOF proposals  are guilty of "over reach", claiming more than is reasonable, exaggerating problems, overestimating the benefits of a new approach.

For the last 10 months we have been supporting the need for a full independent inquiry into fisheries management and the role of MPI. A chance to override the positioning and personal opinions to get to a better place for all NZers. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote mowerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2016 at 10:17pm
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I Believe Legasea signed up and to be included had to agree with Seachange and all its proposels.Either in on certain terms or out with no say..I could be wrong with my words ..but Pjc knows the details.John Holdsworth was the person who let slip that.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2016 at 12:49pm
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My understanding when Scott was asked to join seachange he said he would not go it alone and Trish has a say on board?my understanding that nothing can change unless ALL members agree to any proposal,it now appears as time has gone not to be the case and Scott(legasea) have had to roll over?pressure from above who knows but it all seems to me to against what "legaea' stands for."more fish in the sea and fish for the people"

There has been no official statement newsletter from "legasea"as Christmas break

John H I do apologise to you but there is a lack of communication coming out and what is made public seems to against what"legasea' has been trying to achieve.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote John H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2016 at 1:32pm
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Sam is working on some material on Sea Change now.  It is a gap in communication.
Currently we have the the submission on the South East Marine Protected areas due.
By Friday we have to have the final Submission on MPIs FOOF in.  What they are going to do with it over Xmas beats me.  There is an HMS Fisheries Plan I have been asked to review.  All of these have deadlines.  

At present Sea Change has a very vague process starting next year some time. I was not close to it but the series of 2 day meetings to finalise the Plan sounded truly horrific. The way I look at it the easiest thing to do would have been to walk away and get none of the fisheries management changes in the plan. They would have found another recreational fisher from somewhere.  The hardest thing was to hang in there and get the best deal possible for recreational fishers. If you want to have a shot at someone how about Forest and Bird and EDS who were hell bent on having MPAs in the plan.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote mowerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2016 at 4:23pm
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John ,I take it the way you have worded your reply ..

"get none of the fisheries management changes in the plan"

So it was already agreed upon before Legasea sat down at the table ? They have already decided what the plan is ,everyone has to say yes ?

as, >>> the series of 2 day meetings to finalise the Plan sounded truly horrific <<<

Sea Change has a very vague process, has not this always been the case ?,things happen and no one knows until check mate ..

MPAs even though they are needed should not lock out recreational fishers .

The plan  is Commerical Intrests first, MPAs second,Recreational Third..Tied in with this is  Environmental which will hit Recreational the hardest, Commercial will be moved out so no impact on them 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote John H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2016 at 4:42pm
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MM From the little I heard there were plenty of changes to major parts of the plan all the way through.  By the press release issued by Sanford they certainly don't think commercial fishers came out on top.
Not really sure why you guys want to pick over the mechanics of it all.  Looking for someone to blame??  Another reason why no-one wants to be on these stakeholder committees. Dammed if you do Dammed if you don't.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2016 at 5:54pm
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Recreational need to stand up and grow some balls,do not be afraid to take to the streets like Aussies did. Nah kiwis like to lie down and be shafted then whinge afterwards.
The Kiwi WayAngry

Oh why didn't someone do something??
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote mowerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2016 at 7:45pm
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'' Not really sure why you guys want to pick over the mechanics of it all.  Looking for someone to blame "
John in all due respect you dont know alot ...

Firstly who appointed all these Iwi groups with out due process of Hui ? .. This is how it is done ...Not self appointed mouth pieces of mates which have run rough shod over all Maori...This is a fact 

The shady dealing obviously going on behind closed doors, That can be also taken as Fact

Mooks Honneck of all people ,how the hell did he get in there ? None of my Iwi voted him in ,most despise him within Nagti Manahuri .. He is not even a land owner and goes everywhere with rent acrowd to give him the support ..He was also a bankrupt and was involved in  Treaty Settlements while bankrupt, that is not legal.
He is in with Nagti Wai who have there own Iwi taking them to court over shady dealings ...Fact is the rat trap will catch him sooner or later..
Scott thinks hes a great guy , which was let slip without Scott knowing who I was ...
So do I trust anything ,ask yourself .What I speak is truth..
I say to you the Seachange set up is corrupt and only here to feather the nest of a few.
Dont shoot the messenger ,the noises will only get louder  ..
Mooks we want gone ,its just not myself saying this within our Iwi... dirty washing ..there is alot of it and it needs washing 
I posted on F.net over 3 years ago about Mr Honneck,nothing has changed ,nor do I trust the motives of anyone involved with him...

QUOTE "" The hardest thing was to hang in there and get the best deal possible for recreational fishers. ""

We would all like to know the best part ..so say all of us ..

Time for Legasea to look at itself " Fish for the People "
Under Seachange there wont be with all the reserves with Recreational Fishers pushed into "Fishing only Areas".

Hopefully Kiwis ( thats All Races ) will stand up and say NO...

9 fish to 7 fish to 30cm

Fishing only areas ( because thats what the reserves create )

Fishing Licences,Boat registration ... recreational are being pushed out..there is no other words for for it ..

The whole thing will become to costly for alot of folks..

Read the writing everyone ....put money on the table .. 




 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote CoastalStan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2016 at 7:56pm
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I am surprised the charter guys aren't going nuts. Closing down the Mokes etc won't bother the cheap charter guys but it's not going to help the good ones that attract sport fisherman.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote fish-feeder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2016 at 8:27pm
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Why don't we just give everything to iwi,what a joke. The year 2099 and they will still be asking for handouts . I'm sick of having maoridom rammed down my throat.
dont get my personality mixed up with my attitude,my personality is me,my attitude depends on you.
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[QUOTE=mowerman]'' Not really sure why you guys want to pick over the mechanics of it all.  Looking for someone to blame "
John in all due respect you dont know alot ...

Firstly who appointed all these Iwi groups with out due process of Hui ? .. This is how it is done ...Not self appointed mouth pieces of mates which have run rough shod over all Maori...This is a fact 

The shady dealing obviously going on behind closed doors, That can be also taken as Fact

Mooks Honneck of all people ,how the hell did he get in there ? None of my Iwi voted him in ,most despise him within Nagti Manahuri .. He is not even a land owner and goes everywhere with rent acrowd to give him the support ..He was also a bankrupt and was involved in  Treaty Settlements while bankrupt, that is not legal.
He is in with Nagti Wai who have there own Iwi taking them to court over shady dealings ...Fact is the rat trap will catch him sooner or later..
Scott thinks hes a great guy , which was let slip without Scott knowing who I was ...
So do I trust anything ,ask yourself .What I speak is truth..
I say to you the Seachange set up is corrupt and only here to feather the nest of a few.
Dont shoot the messenger ,the noises will only get louder  ..
Mooks we want gone ,its just not myself saying this within our Iwi... dirty washing ..there is alot of it and it needs washing 
I posted on F.net over 3 years ago about Mr Honneck,nothing has changed ,nor do I trust the motives of anyone involved with him...

Good on you for speaking your mind and no doubt getting a battering in the process. Appeasement and PC nonsense wins the day to often at the expense of the majority. Unfortunantly there are Maori leaders that take advantage for the wrong reasons.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote mowerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 2016 at 8:14am
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THIS I POSTED IN Sept 2016.......

And  folks... Leagsea are in on he ground floor with the current SNAI management plan...Grab for the Gulf ...


>>>>>>>Currently, there’s a scheme being executed to gain control of the Hauraki Gulf and its surrounds. It’ll give a few from 26 tribal groups incredible power over a massive and very critical 4,000km² body of water (from near Mangawhai in the North down to Waihi in the south, and beyond Great Barrier Island to the east), along with the significant land catchments bordering the entire eastern coast of Auckland, the extensive Hauraki Plains, the entire Coromandel Peninsula, and the many islands of the Gulf.<<<<<<

Mackenzie
Fiona Mackenzie, MBA, BA , Dip/Cert Tch worked as a teacher, before moving into the finance and investment banking industries, a marketing communications consultancy, and recreational project management. For the last 21 years, Fiona has combined self–employment with parenthood and voluntary work - as a board member/trustee, environmental and recreational worker, community fundraiser, teacher help, and political commentator. She is a passionate New Zealander.

A Grab for the Gulf

Print Friendly and PDF Posted on July 17, 2016 
By Fiona Mackenzie
The feeling of having been totally out-manoeuvred has become a common sensation amongst Auckland regional ratepayers – and they don’t know half of what is going on. This powerlessness extends to some of the well-meaning City Councillors who thought they were being elected to work for the people; they now see themselves as fall guys, taking the rap for conniving bureaucrats, greedy iwi and unscrupulous politicians.
Latest Target

Currently, there’s a scheme being executed to gain control of the Hauraki Gulf and its surrounds. It’ll give a few from 26 tribal groups incredible power over a massive and very critical 4,000km² body of water (from near Mangawhai in the North down to Waihi in the south, and beyond Great Barrier Island to the east), along with the significant land catchments bordering the entire eastern coast of Auckland, the extensive Hauraki Plains, the entire Coromandel Peninsula, and the many islands of the Gulf.
Who will be affected by this? Think shipping, the Port of Auckland, aquacultural farms, commercial or recreational fishing, ferries, tourism, leisure, sport, every marina, ramp, buoy or mooring, and landowners – possibly even commercial air space, bridges and roads. And if there’s not enough money coming from these sources to fill the iwi coffers, there are always the defenceless ratepayers of Auckland City to squeeze a bit more from.
Gross Dysfunction

Since 2000, the Gulf has been managed by the Hauraki Gulf Forum with Auckland Council as its administering authority. Its board includes Ministry bureaucrats, elected representatives of all the region’s councils, plus 6 self-nominated tribal representatives appointed by the Minister of Conservation.
Unsurprisingly, there has been gross dysfunction in the Forum. In his 2015 report, management consultant Dr Nigel Bradly put it down to the “inability or unwillingness of members to act as a ‘political peer group’…….the mismatch of willingness, understanding and expectations of members is at the heart of the failure of the Forum to promote the objectives of the Act.”
This highlights the obvious − a fundamental conflict inherent in having elected representatives (some of whom are working in the public’s best interests, i.e. for the region’s environmental and economic health) and those of appointed, totally self-serving parties wanting to increase their power and wealth.
Lack of Due Process
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote letsgetem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 2016 at 9:43am
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Its good to see the truth being aired, at last. The co-operative approach being practised by Legasea, hasn't worked. Its allowed others less scrupulous, to grab more power over what happens to the Hauraki Gulf. Basically, I think Legasea has been out-manoeuvred. They should have stuck to their guns, but instead, went along with a proposed plan that is extremely biased against recreational fishing. Now belatedly revealing that the recreational representatives didn't agree with it, is not good enough - as, that was not made known with the release of the proposed plan. We have had to try and figure out what is actually going on.
From here on, obviously the group (maori/commercial fish farming) pushing the plan, will try and say to the government that its "consulted" and government should implement it. All bollocks.
 
Legasea needs to change to a much more aggressive, militant style. If it doesn't it will lose much of its grassroots support. Specifically it needs to come out fighting, say publicly that it doesn't agree with the plan; and make clear that the "committee" that made it, was and is hopelessly at odds. This committee and this plan could then be stopped dead 
 
its up to us individuals to fight. I have started a discussion on this in the Neighbourly net work in Hibiscus Coast. And I intend to write letters to the local papers, telling about it. I am sure that there are many recreational fishing enthusiasts here that don't know whats going on. The vast majority of fishers don't belong to Fishing.net.
 
The key objectives should be - kick up a fuss now - write letters to papers, aim to influence MPs, and ramp it up before the next government election. Remember the most important thing, will be which government gets into power. If it panders to maori separate privileges (as the current government has done), it will mean this plan, and others following no doubt, will go ahead.   
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote v8-coupe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 2016 at 1:17pm
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Originally posted by letsgetem letsgetem wrote:


Its good to see the truth being aired, at last. The co-operative approach being practised by Legasea, hasn't worked. Its allowed others less scrupulous, to grab more power over what happens to the Hauraki Gulf. Basically, I think Legasea has been out-manoeuvred. They should have stuck to their guns, but instead, went along with a proposed plan that is extremely biased against recreational fishing. Now belatedly revealing that the recreational representatives didn't agree with it, is not good enough - as, that was not made known with the release of the proposed plan. We have had to try and figure out what is actually going on.
From here on, obviously the group (maori/commercial fish farming) pushing the plan, will try and say to the government that its "consulted" and government should implement it. All bollocks.
 
Legasea needs to change to a much more aggressive, militant style. If it doesn't it will lose much of its grassroots support. Specifically it needs to come out fighting, say publicly that it doesn't agree with the plan; and make clear that the "committee" that made it, was and is hopelessly at odds. This committee and this plan could then be stopped dead 
 
its up to us individuals to fight. I have started a discussion on this in the Neighbourly net work in Hibiscus Coast. And I intend to write letters to the local papers, telling about it. I am sure that there are many recreational fishing enthusiasts here that don't know whats going on. The vast majority of fishers don't belong to Fishing.net.
 
The key objectives should be - kick up a fuss now - write letters to papers, aim to influence MPs, and ramp it up before the next government election. Remember the most important thing, will be which government gets into power. If it panders to maori separate privileges (as the current government has done), it will mean this plan, and others following no doubt, will go ahead.   
 
 


Wonder how much a full page article in the NZ Herald would cost? Could Legasea ask for special donations to fund such a page?
All the information/ideas/interpretations/concerns Mowerman, Tagit, Legasea and others have could be spelled out to the wider public. Legasea could then publicly state they do not agree with the document and do not agree with some of the people on it nor the way they were appointed.
There is debate on here, debate on Facebook and we have Legasea.
However I feel that a large percentage of rec fishers/public still have no idea of what is happening or even of the existence of the Facebook site, the Fishing.net site or Legasea itself.
If this was to be done I guess there would have to be the usual legal checks and balances.
I would contribute for such an action.
Legasea Legend Member
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