Diesel Outboards

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    Posted: 03 Dec 2016 at 4:41pm
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Interesting... I wonder how good these are?





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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2016 at 7:36pm
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Hmmm - last 3 times longer than the equivalent petrol engine. Not sure how they work that one out. I can think of a bunch of reasons why a diesel outboard might be a good thing, but I wouldn't be buying one on the basis that it was going to last a whole lot longer than the petrol equivalent.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Space Invader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2016 at 7:57pm
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I'd buy one if it was ...
A) Not stinky
B) Not noisy
C) Cheaper than the 4 stroke equivalent
D) proven in the real world.

Guess I'll just have to wait.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote bazza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2016 at 8:52pm
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Wonder what size the crank battery would need to be as on most diesels they are comparatively giannormous !
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Big -Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2016 at 9:51pm
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A tricked up commer diesel?
you can't fix an idiot with duct tape, but it does muffle them for a while...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote edge01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2016 at 10:24pm
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Originally posted by Shrekky Shrekky wrote:

A tricked up commer diesel?
TS 3 two stroke knocker engine?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote junior fisho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2016 at 10:35pm
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How does a 4 cylinder have 8 pistons? Only in England
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2016 at 10:49pm
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Originally posted by junior fisho junior fisho wrote:

How does a 4 cylinder have 8 pistons? Only in England
http://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2015/12/12/opposed-piston-engine-new-breakthrough-old-tech/76719440


nstead of one piston per cylinder, which requires four cycles per firing, opposed-pistons engines have two pistons per cylinder, both connected by levers with a single crankshaft. With two pistons per cylinder, working in opposite reciprocating action, there's no need for cylinder heads, which means less heat is lost in the combustion process.

The advantage is the engine can produce equal performance for less displacement and less emissions from pressure inside the cylinder than a four-stroke engine. Combined with gasoline compression injection there is an opportunity improve fuel economy significantly and reduce emissions of nitrous oxides and particulate matter.

 


Not unusual in big ship engines,not sure in a outboard though
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Capt Asparagus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2016 at 4:56am
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There have been a lot of advances in diesel tech these last few years as car makers are coming under pressure from emissions regulations, I had heard from a friend of some of the developments, like a full size auto engine that was small enough to be able to be taken on a plane as hand luggage (by size, not weight), to which I said it'd make an awesome outboard engine.
I dont know if theyd have the instant take off demanded of outboards for boats, but hell, if these work....!
Thirty years ago, tohatsu i think it was made a diesel outboard, up to 40hp, I remember one of my customes had one on his 16ft runabout, had me very interested as it used, dollar wise, half what my petrol 65 Mercury used at the same time on my 14'6" sea nymph. It was just the drop in hp and performance that put me off, being young and keen on showing off as much as poss and zee ladeez mit zee skiing unt zee vater sports, you know, lol... but these motors sure look interesting.
Have to see how they go longer term, as has been said, and maybe changing the name wouldnt hurt ("What power do you want on your boat mate", "I want a big Cox.... " Hmmm, dont think so! lol)
Interesting though, very interesting...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote the angler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2016 at 7:16am
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Pointless.
U will still have a stupid looking thing hanging off the back of your boat ......
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Lambchops Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2016 at 2:47pm
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I read about 1 motor being developed in scandinavia somewhere based on a Ford Transit Diesel which was looking very good so its going to happen.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2016 at 3:22pm
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Whilst we may have good market demand due to the fuel price difference in NZ, most markets don't have separate fuel taxes like we do and the engines would need to compete on a much more level playing field. Whilst I like diesels in general, I am not such a big fan of the new generation of super lightweight engines making close to 100hp per litre of displacement or more. Huge combustion pressures and not much metal around the cylinders plus lots of stress on the cooling systems. Electronics are as complex, or more so than the equivalent petrol engine. I can't see how these engines could win the war on weight, price, longevity, noise,reliability, maintenance costs, or fumes, so they need to win it on fuel burn, safety, and torque. But at the same time they need a slim design gearbox that will hold together reliably with 300hp 'worth' of diesel torque, and that is a challenge that has beaten some big companies to date.  With diesel and petrol being similar prices in most markets I can see some challenges for these guys to break into the mass market. One advantage might be not having to carry two types of fuel on a superyacht with a big tender, but a lack of international servicing outlets will probably offset that wee gain.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MacSkipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2016 at 3:34pm
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Originally posted by Tagit Tagit wrote:

Whilst we may have good market demand due to the fuel price difference in NZ, most markets don't have separate fuel taxes like we do and the engines would need to compete on a much more level playing field. Whilst I like diesels in general, I am not such a big fan of the new generation of super lightweight engines making close to 100hp per litre of displacement or more. Huge combustion pressures and not much metal around the cylinders plus lots of stress on the cooling systems. Electronics are as complex, or more so than the equivalent petrol engine. I can't see how these engines could win the war on weight, price, longevity, noise,reliability, maintenance costs, or fumes, so they need to win it on fuel burn, safety, and torque. But at the same time they need a slim design gearbox that will hold together reliably with 300hp 'worth' of diesel torque, and that is a challenge that has beaten some big companies to date.  With diesel and petrol being similar prices in most markets I can see some challenges for these guys to break into the mass market. One advantage might be not having to carry two types of fuel on a superyacht with a big tender, but a lack of international servicing outlets will probably offset that wee gain.
interesting comments Tagit and makes sense to me, one thing for sure I would not want to be first owners of any new technology motor - I like to wait for generation 2 once it has been proved to work and any bugs ironed out.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bounty Hunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2016 at 3:56pm
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i think Tagit is on to it - these companies will have most sales with commercial or military organisations - where legislation or HS dictate that diesel or kero is only fuel option
No disintegrations!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2016 at 6:41pm
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There has been a military version out for many yrs.. can run on damn near any fuel... with restrictions.. covered in a thread about 2 yrs ago
 But as mentioned above, technology has moved in huge logrithmetic jumps in recent yrs
 And lets not forget , crude was originally  fractionally distilled for the heavier fractions.. kero/ parrafin/ Diesel and the higher  (petrols) a waste product.. the orginal internal combustion was a diesel

So much starts out as a military application. doesnt take long to hit the main stream markets.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote the demon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2016 at 10:09pm
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Yamy 300 hp weighs about 255 kg ,whats the weight of the Cox diesel 300hp?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2016 at 12:06am
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At the recent international defence exhibition and conference (DSEi) in London, a new lightweight diesel engine was on display. The British company Cox Powertrain Limited (http://www.coxpowertrain.com) is developing, together with Ricardo UK a modular, power dense engine with target output of 300 hp (224 kW) @ 4,000rpm from a 3.6 liter supercharged 2-stroke diesel engine, weighing 300 lbs (136 kg). Such a high power to weight ratio opens up a variety of application opportunities such as marine outboard motor and powered flight e.g. UAVs.


136kg
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote formtool Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2016 at 10:27am
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I remember a couple of years ago in the boating mag with a boat builder putting in a outboard in a cavity of the boat instead of a shaft drive. this reduced the costs quite a bit which would offset the higher fuel costs. thought this quite a good idea but would have been even better if a diesel outboard was available.
There was a guy in NZ trying to make a diesel outboard using a VW motor a few years ago. Don't know what happened there. As for other NZ engine builders look up Shepherd engine, Duke engines. Different ideas there for motors. There is also another kiwi invention of the con rods which increases the angle of the con rod when it reaches firing point. Creating more power and less fuel. Apparently? But the idea has been taken to the big car makers. Quite a bit still goes on in the back yards of this country.
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