4 stroke service costs....

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    Posted: 26 May 2016 at 3:05pm
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I'm keen to know the true service & maintainence costs of a  medium sized 4 stroked (say 115-150hp yammy/honda/suzuki)  over a 10 year period would be good, but a lesser period would be ok.   if anyone can come up with some true figures that would be much appeciated.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2016 at 5:05pm
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Dont know the numbers  but keep in mind that 4s require cams to be done down the line.

There is a thread a yr or so back discussing these things... but from memory the cam issue was not

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Big -Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2016 at 5:23pm
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Cam belts on 4 strokes are easy, and only every 1000 hours, or ten years to be sensible?
other than that, a 30 dollar oil filter, 80 bucks of oil, every year, an impeller occasionally, and spark plugs occasionally unless you are doing massive hours..
i know some do need fancy plugs at 50 bucks each, but if you are considering the pros and cons between 2 stroke and 4, service costs arent a valid issue.
you can't fix an idiot with duct tape, but it does muffle them for a while...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Muzzfishing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2016 at 9:47pm
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Why are servicing costs between 2 strokes and 4 strokes a valid issue.
I was looking at a 4 stroke motor at Boat show and found out it had to be run on 95 Octane to make 100hp but could be run on 91 but would not be 100hp.
Best to find out as much info as you can before making any decisions on a motor.
    A Good Skipper Keeps the water on the outside of the boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote strx7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2016 at 10:06pm
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Originally posted by Shrekky Shrekky wrote:

Cam belts on 4 strokes are easy, and only every 1000 hours, or ten years to be sensible?
other than that, a 30 dollar oil filter, 80 bucks of oil, every year, an impeller occasionally, and spark plugs occasionally unless you are doing massive hours..
i know some do need fancy plugs at 50 bucks each, but if you are considering the pros and cons between 2 stroke and 4, service costs arent a valid issue.

you left off the reaming labour charge of the agent from your price list.
I would also think if doing a cambelt on a 4 stroke you would have an idler or 2, a tensioner, 2 cam seals and crank seal and a few other 'consumables'  all at typical outboard specific parts prices.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Big -Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2016 at 10:54pm
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IF any rec guys run a motor long enough to need a cam belt, its probably only ever going to be a one off time..small price for the economy and reliability in the long run...
most motors are going to need re gasketing and some seals etc eventually as well.a thousand hours is a fair few hours..
my motor has done a thousand hours, next winter i think it will get a strip down, clean, inspect, gaskets and cam belt, although the belt was done before i got the motor.
a thousand hours is only a couple of years of a car engines life..
you can't fix an idiot with duct tape, but it does muffle them for a while...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote 2 Meke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2016 at 6:26am
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Get a Suzuki four stroke. No cambelt, uses a chain.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Raging Bull Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2016 at 9:03am
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My current outboard is a 225 Honda, so maybe not relevant, but I would think the labour and parts are pretty similar. But a service cost around $500 or $700 if I need to change the plugs. So far I have had 300hrs on the plugs and they seem fine. Over 3 years I have clocked up 550hrs, other than servicing every hundred hours I have had to change the High Pressure Fuel filter which should have been done at servicing. Other thing was an oxygen sensor which was a known fault with those outboards and fixed under warranty.

So servicing is $5.50 per hour.
I have used 8100 litres of gas which equates to 15 litres per hour over the 550 hours at $1.75 per litre that works out to be $26.25 per hour of fuel.
 
Running costs, for fuel and servicing over 550 hours works out at $31.75 per hour.
 
My old 175 Yamaha 2 stroke was around $450 to service and used 1/3 more fuel. So that works out to be $4.50 per hour for servicing and around $42 per hour for fuel.
 
So $46.50 per hour to run the 2 stroke.
 
Over 550 hours the Honda has cost $17,462.50 for fuel and servicing.
 
The two stroke over the same time would have been $23,100
 
So in 3-4 years I have saved $5638 and have also got a 7.2m Billfisher as opposed to the 6.35m Billfisher that had the 175 was on.
 
I don't know what a cambelt would cost to change but would maybe add $1 per hour  on to the running costs over 1000 hours?
 
Still looking at over $10,000 savings over 10 years, but that's with an extra meter of boat, so if I was to compare a smaller Honda to the 175 Yamaha on the smaller billfisher the savings would be even greater.
 
I also just realised I didn't factor in 2 stroke oil in to the equations, that probably cancels out the cam belt.
 
I realise the purchase cost of a 4 stroke is more, but in my case I bought a second hand Honda with 150hrs on it and sold the motors that were on the boat when I bought it. The change over costs once I sold the 635 with the 2 stroke to buying the 7.20 and fitting the Honda was $2k.
 
 
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I was looking at a 4 stroke motor at Boat show and found out it had to be run on 95 Octane to make 100hp but could be run on 91 but would not be 100hp.

Dont let that fool you.
Its like 91/95/ 98 octane cars.
There are several factors
1/ The specific gravity .. ie weight per volume... and the stored energy is measured in energy per weight and we buy at energy per volume
take extreme case lpg over pertrol.. lpg is very light so one uses far more volume.. a well tuned V8 will run an ave of 15mpg...but far less weight per mile... basically cost per mile works out to around  petrol equivalent 32 mpg 
2/ efficient use of octane is dependant on compression, or rather cylinder pressure at point of maxium explosion between 12 and 18 degs ATDC.
Use a octane too high or one too low the engine efficiency drops off, espec if using 'cheaper' low octane.  Efficiency (power at a given rpm) drops volume of fuel per mile increases...and the back pocket gets significantly lighter.
3/ timing.. higher the octane the more advance is needed, due to ... yes .. slower burn across the chamber....If u run a higher octane engine on low octane then the timing will be wrong....as said above the ideal timing at a given load and rpm is between 12 and 18 degs.. thats a max of 6 degs... 1 deg can make a huge difference.
In saying that many modern ECUs cam 'learn ' different fuels/ octanes and change timing , but cant change pressure... yet.. variable valve timing technology is coming.

At the end of the day, even thu they may require a higher octane.. more energy per kg....u will use less volume , and more than enough to cover the higher cost per litre.

And Sherkky has a damn good point on the time between cam changes in the real practical world... which then asks the question, are these new 4S going to actually hold their price when they come up for replacing the cam belts.
Not all of us can afford new engines.....
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Big -Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2016 at 10:44am
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A cambelt on an outboard is so easy...unlike in a car.
a few screws, the cover is off and its all sitting there....
you can't fix an idiot with duct tape, but it does muffle them for a while...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Big -Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2016 at 10:49am
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I guess im not the best to talk to about servicing costs, unless you are a do it yourself type like me.
next year i will strip my honda down myself, replace gaskets, and seals..
its the head gasket and base gasket i am most concerned about, and the bottom crank seal..age is more of a factor than hours...

Its a different story if you are paying someone else...
you can't fix an idiot with duct tape, but it does muffle them for a while...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote CoastalStan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2016 at 11:50am
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I bought my boat last year 115 Yamaha/Mercury Cambelt hadn't been changed ever and it had only done 200 hours over 12 years. Sent it in for a major service just to make sure it wasn't going to have any problems due to limited use. First thing they changed was the cambelt due to age not use and they charged me the exorbitant amount of $130 for the cambelt including labour. I budget $1000 per year for servicing and maintenance and that allows me to replace each battery every second year. It's just the cost of owning a boat, I spend lots more on gas and even more on bait and tackle, servicing a motor is the cheapest part of boating and possible the most important especially if you are 40nm offshore.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote strx7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2016 at 1:13pm
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Originally posted by 2 Meke 2 Meke wrote:

Get a Suzuki four stroke. No cambelt, uses a chain.

if they use the same kinda chains they use in their car engines, they too need replacing......  

Do people realise that  cambelt's degrade with time not just running hours/kms ???
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MacSkipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2016 at 1:34pm
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Originally posted by strx7<div>Do people realise that  cambelt's degrade with time not just running hours/kms ???
[/QUOTE strx7
Do people realise that  cambelt's degrade with time not just running hours/kms ??? [/QUOTE wrote:

 
Don't know about outboards but my wife's corolla had a cam belt recomme
 
Don't know about outboards but my wife's corolla had a cam belt recommended replacement was 5 yrs or 100K whichever came first - know of a guy with a Toyota straight six had never changed cam belt and at 10 years 250K or so started running poorly - belt had slipped due to worn teeth - no damage but lucky I think?
Her car (and mine) have a cam chain now - no recommended interval but if engine oil not changed regularly I was told cam chain will fail at some point (along with rest of motor!).
End of day talk to someone who knows your motor and get their advice - every motor has different strengths and weaknesses, the servicing requirements for 2S, Etec, Optimax, 4S all will be different and that has to be factored into running costs.
 
Good fishing trip nothing breaks, great trip catch fish.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Big -Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2016 at 2:54pm
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I do believe i mentioned bac&k up there that it would be sensible to do it after so many years, regardless of hours...
they are pretty easy to have a look at...any signs of perishing and i would be flicking a new one on...
you can't fix an idiot with duct tape, but it does muffle them for a while...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Durban Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2017 at 9:31pm
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My personal opinion take it to a dealer that does diagnostics there are bush mechanics that don,t even know how to put the ECU in service mode before you start on the earlier models that did not come out with a NMEA   and never mind them not knowing the correct procedure even before you start the job to do the correct compression test procedure which is different to a 2 stroke that,s the first you do before you start . the diagnostics gives you all the internal info you need . and if you do not have the correct gear how can you do a professional job . this is just my opinion .       
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 2017 at 12:16pm
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Agree totally with Durban above.. be it modern ECU 4S outboard or a modern car
 To service which diagnostic tools are a vert important part of the service are way outside the general back yard service of the 20th century.
 In saying that there are certain basic stuff in periodic service you can do..
 Change impellers, gearbox oil, pressure check seals, fuel filter etc.
 But you will also find many/ most parts/ oils etc  will be branded and only available from retail agents.
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