Trailer modification question

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    Posted: 06 Oct 2015 at 11:07pm
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Hi guys, have just recently bought a senator rc500 and have not been overly happy with how easy it is to get off the trailer. Basically needs engine in reverse with quite a few revs and also someone at the front pushing up and down to get the thing off. Most other boats I have experienced basically just unhook and it rolls off itself which is where I want to get to. Currently it has the quad wobble rollers at the reer or the trailer and then just the keel roller. What I am looking to try and do is add more rollers further up the trailer. Here are a few options

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=957888020

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=960638421

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=960638435

Has anyone done this or have experience with something similar who can point me in the right direction?

Cheers guys
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Dave0308 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2015 at 11:59pm
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Yep another set of quads and a pair at the front should do the trick or even 2 sets of pairs should be fine and cheaper too. It sure is a pain having to muck around getting them off .
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Lethal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2015 at 1:18am
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its a Shame the trailer was not built properly in the first place,
if you bought it new then get them to sort it out, its their fault for not having enough rollers for it to roll off,
its also not good for your boat long term, as it means it has not the support it should have and if using it on long trips could be doing harm to your hull.
more so if your using it to load the tent and a few other camping equipment..
friend has just had his Frenzy trailer replaced as it was obvious to me it had been bent when transported, yes a hassle but all done once photo's had exchanged hands a another company had a look.
is this a different trailer to yours murtie12 ?????



 
Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2015 at 9:12am
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Couple things to look at..
Ours is an old full keel commander..  with a row of little rollers on a bar each side at the rear and a 2x wobbly up front.
I work hard at being lazy... and the boat would not slide off well .. even on a steep ramp when 1st got it.

So some of these things will not be relievent to the above.. but putting here for future ref for those who bother to use search option for info.
 1/ had Ally keel rollers that where broken...upon inspection they had bushes that only went 1/2" in on each side and NO support in the middle where the main boat weight bounced ....Fix..... source some bushes that went all the way thru...re greased with red marine Evenrude grease... cost under $25...rollers still broken and work fine
2/ The boat was balanced badly between the side rollers front and back...caused towing issues...and issues of the winch rope loading up one side...
Being a keel trailer .. and asking a lot of questions of knowledgeable ppl.. I adjusted the chine height of the boat equal distance up from the trailer outside frame...basically adjusted so the boat was symmetrical to the trailer. This made a huge difference, and was surprised at the time how big diff the boat came up and side off... basically it had the side rollers then rolling square on their axles and not binding... the front wobblies appeared to be holding the boat stable, and needed lifting...which made the bow sit slightly higher at the front
3/ This may or may not made a difference... I played with where the boat sat... forward/ rear by shimming the rubber V where the bow fits in... this was to have the boat PERFECTLY balanced for towing at any speed on any type of road...and yes a 3/8" makes a difference.

So we went from, on a well sloped ramp.. un hooking.. shove push move. shove , jump in the truck move back a few 100 mm hit the brakes several times to get the boat off..
And bring up, break into a sweat on the winch
To
The boat (950Kg) comes up  with an old 2nd hand 18v B&D firestorm battery drill faster than we can wind the winch by hand.... and hand the bow row to someone on the ramp... remove shackle, carefully back off the winch hook...give the bow a 1 hand shove, turn around walk back to the truck driver seat set and not even look back to check till look in rear vision mirror.

So applying the relivent bits to the problem boat.
Check sits symmetrical
Check the front wobblies are set high enough...may mean jacking the boat up to lift them... (or lower the rears) and look to see any marks on the wobbly supports if may have slipped down slightly.. do not over tighten the clamps.. that can cause them to slip rather than hold harder.
Check the wobblies are running square on there axles and not screwed a at an angle.
Check the boat position   forward/ rear is set so can travel open road , up hill and down and winding roads up hill and down at speed up to 110km all with NIL sign of any sway or unstable towing.
Yeah speed limit is 90.. and for those BS ppl who every on a regular basis will pass a truck on passing lanes up a hill in their car and NEVER exceed 100 kms.. measure the distance of the lane, the speed of the truck / slow vehicle and work out if it is actually possible to pass not exceeding the 100 km
More than once have we dropped back from a sunday driver before a big hill, built up speed, hit that cnr at th bottom wide, cut to the apex, hit the passing lane just as reach the sunday driver and pass nps... and to do that the trailer NEEDS to track 100% and u NEED to know it will

So hope some of this helps
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote murtie12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2015 at 10:04am
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thanks lethal boat was bought second hand. Trailer is a dmw as the pic above but does not have the forward rollers. Also has a cage around it. Would put a pic up but in Aussie at the mo.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Lethal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2015 at 8:08pm
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going by DMWs Web Site all the rollers are welded on and have no adjustment range, 
this just might be a hassle when fitting any new rollers, 
they need quite a lot room to mount them..
you don't want to spend money on something that cant be added to your trailer with the effect your after.

just cheek that out first, better to be right first time. 
 
Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Big -Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2015 at 10:48pm
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I think the main thing is, when fitting extra rollers, is that all rollers are caring similar weight, and that the boat snugs in to the v block properly, even if the v block ends up lifting the Boat slightly. Nothing worse than a boat bouncing in and out of the vee block.

As to the original question though, I have never seen keel rollers work very well, if you can fit more wobbles and lift it off those keel rollers, then great..
you can't fix an idiot with duct tape, but it does muffle them for a while...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Cigar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 2015 at 7:37pm
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We had issues with our 560 trailer. DMW said it was sent with bolt-on rollers for the boat agent to fit, they were never put on. DMW said we were lucky we got it to them before towing to Napier and back for the boats first service as could have damaged the hull.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote murtie12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 2015 at 8:34pm
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hmm interesting Cigar. not sure how long this boat has only had a keel roller at the front. I assume for the life of the boat/trailer. 
The next question i guess is should i go with "set" rollers or "swinging" at the front? don't really know if this will make a difference or not. What did you have put on Cigar? double or quad wobble rollers for the front? and were they set or swinging?

Cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2015 at 8:44am
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I have never seen keel rollers work very well
Its called maintenance...
how many times does one see the boat dropped off, the trailer parked up, and then each of the rollers given a spin?
Or see at a ramp a boat dropped off and a couple guys up at the trailer removing each of the roller and a pot of grease?
Come summer time, the number of trailers stuck on the side of the road with a wheel missing because a bearing has been neglected so badly its collapsed.
Or snapped a couple wheel stud because to damn lazy to take 30 secs out each time they get home and walk around the boat/ trailer with a can of CRC?

The problem is not with keel rollers not working .. the problem is with the ppl who have keel rollers not working
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MacSkipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2015 at 9:53am
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Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:

I have never seen keel rollers work very well
Its called maintenance...
how many times does one see the boat dropped off, the trailer parked up, and then each of the rollers given a spin?
Or see at a ramp a boat dropped off and a couple guys up at the trailer removing each of the roller and a pot of grease?
Come summer time, the number of trailers stuck on the side of the road with a wheel missing because a bearing has been neglected so badly its collapsed.
Or snapped a couple wheel stud because to damn lazy to take 30 secs out each time they get home and walk around the boat/ trailer with a can of CRC?

The problem is not with keel rollers not working .. the problem is with the ppl who have keel rollers not working
Steps X2 Clap - Living at Huia on windy road alongside Manukau Harbour several times a year I saw trailers with busted wheels off trailer, sad way to end day or abort it - and that is ones I have seen!  I like to keep in WOF for peace of mind (and insurance cover - read your car policy for trailer to be insured against 3rd party has to be "road worthy") also like to put my hand on hubs occasionally after towing - if hot then bearing starting to go.
Good fishing trip nothing breaks, great trip catch fish.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Lethal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2015 at 3:16pm
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i prefer to whip the wheel off, clean any surface rust off with a disk grinder that ive put a spinning wire brush on, when all done paint everything with grease,
i do the whole of the wheel hub and back of the wheel, and anything else i see rust on,
put the nuts in a vice and clean them to,

yep i lost a wheel once and that made me really think about how i should look after my wheels and trailer, also they are not cheep to replace,
my trailer is stripped once every year now as it was made in 2005 instead of taking to be galvanized i paint it with cold Zinc coating, that is after i have cleaned any spots of rust off it,

the trailer has the same bearing as it started with, if your smart you would purchase a tub of a grease called Moreys water proof Grease, clean out the old grease and replace it with this stuff, you will only have to tighten the nut up once every couple of years to get a warrant...
 
   

 
Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2015 at 5:52pm
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More modern trailers .. and if not modern, have had rims replaced with ally.. and often plastic type coated...
So the rust rims thing is in most cases obsoleted.
But yeah bearings should be checked at least once yr if not a couple times on boat trailers... This a is because they spend a lot of time standing in the same place which is hard on bearings... Old school,  caravans and boats used to be jacked up off the ground to prevent this along with flat spots on the old cross ply tyres.
Radial ply are not prone to flat spotting.

Side question :
why dont trailers , in particular boat trailers dont have a sacrificial anode?
And would thjere be any benefit to bolting one on?

A few American, eg Chev from at least around the late 60s used to have an anode fixed into the rear pillar.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MacSkipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2015 at 6:44pm
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Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:


Side question :
why dont trailers , in particular boat trailers dont have a sacrificial anode?
And would thjere be any benefit to bolting one on?

A few American, eg Chev from at least around the late 60s used to have an anode fixed into the rear pillar.
Used to be available may still be? someone was promoting specifically for boat trailers a few years ago have not heard anything more since.  I thought that my trailer rusted more with alloy boat than present plastic one, but different brand trailers and alloy boat did not have isolation switch on battery.  I imagine an anode would help while in water but trailer is not very long in the water, unlike outboard which will also have some electrical potential as well?
Good fishing trip nothing breaks, great trip catch fish.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kandrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2015 at 8:28pm
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I've got 6 mer tinny with quads up the front and quads at the back, no centre rollers. Mainly beach launch and ramp with a slight angle I have to winch it off or it just takes off to fast.

Loading is real easy just connect rope point it at the trailer and start winching nothing to line up. I've had centre roller trailers and if your tinny can go on a multi roller trailer you won't look back.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2015 at 9:45am
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I've had centre roller trailers and if your tinny (or any boat) can go on a multi roller trailer you won't look back.

Hell yeah...with a keel .. usually u have to lift the bow over the centring roller to some degree .. unless using the trailer tilt   and a muliti roller the boat is floated right into the trailer which means often less than 1/2 the distance to winch up.

At moment looking at possibility of moving the rear cross member and centring roller forward .. up to the 3rd roller from the rear....the keel is higher at the rear on the commander and doest sit/ supported on the rear rollers when right up on the trailer.
Still have the original rear upright 'guide poles'  which until the boat is 1/'3 on are a waste of time in a cross wind whatever... but if the boat can be lined up further into the trailer they then become significant 'tools'
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MacSkipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2015 at 11:59am
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Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:

I've had centre roller trailers and if your tinny (or any boat) can go on a multi roller trailer you won't look back.

Hell yeah...with a keel .. usually u have to lift the bow over the centring roller to some degree .. unless using the trailer tilt   and a muliti roller the boat is floated right into the trailer which means often less than 1/2 the distance to winch up.

At moment looking at possibility of moving the rear cross member and centring roller forward .. up to the 3rd roller from the rear....the keel is higher at the rear on the commander and doest sit/ supported on the rear rollers when right up on the trailer.
Still have the original rear upright 'guide poles'  which until the boat is 1/'3 on are a waste of time in a cross wind whatever... but if the boat can be lined up further into the trailer they then become significant 'tools'
Steps, it sounds like your trailer is designed to be deeper in water than mind when retrieving boat?  I like to keep trailer out of water if I can and when a surge on ramp it gets plenty wet anyway.
Good fishing trip nothing breaks, great trip catch fish.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2015 at 6:37pm
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Our trailer is the original that came out with the boat...not original guards  .....I back up.. watch the water edge... stop so I dont get my feet wet....slide her off and the same when pic up.
Where the trailer is....or how deep doesnt matter. If the boat can float it goes off....and on we have sucked it out of the mud on a low spring tide.

I used the tilt once when 1st got it....not is NOT anything like bringing a car up on a tilt trailer...even a high axle one. I have never used it since.
Have thought about using it but very limited.


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