Solar panel for battery top up suggestions

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MacSkipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2015 at 8:32pm
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Originally posted by Kandrew Kandrew wrote:

Not a big fan of solar chargers, batteries need to be cycled correctly if storedfor long periods. If your going to do it properly, the solar charger needs some sort of regulator. As mentioned above a good battery of the right size for the motor should last for at least a month without the need for charging. I like the new 5 stage smart chargers because they cycle the battery up and down and this is what prolongs the life of a battery not just a constant trickle charge. If you can't get a lead across to the boat to plug a charger into, then you haven't got much choice but to run with a solar charger.

I've fitted the Ctek comfort indicator to both of my batteries, they excellent you can see the condition of the battery at a glance. $20 each not a lot for a bit of added safety.

http://www.cteknz.co.nz/CTEKComfortIndicators/tabid/498/Default.aspx
Interesting product I note comment for device (if left powered off but hooked up) - "Back current drain is only 1.5mA, which is extremely low." so is equal in 1000 hours or 42 days to a 1.5Amp/hr load for 1 hr, I think the batteries own losses would be higher than this - pretty good.
Good fishing trip nothing breaks, great trip catch fish.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Olfart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2015 at 9:13pm
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I should have mentioned earlier that my current solar panel has a regulator fitted within the confines of the aluminium frame - it was one of the reasons for buying the panel and it is a big improvement on the previous panel which I inadvertently left unsecured on the boat cover (it fell off and smashed on the ground).  The new panel also has a diode fitted to prevent the batteries draining when the panel is in low light conditions.
With all of that said, when I have had the boat standing unused for a month or so, I hook up a standard charger to the batteries just to be sure the batteries are fully charged at least monthly.
Semper in excreta sumus, solum profundum variat....



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kandrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2015 at 9:13pm
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Yep I've just hung my Ctek comfort indicator out the side of my battery box so I can see it at all times. Also real handy to keep a good eye on the battery charge level while on water with electrics running and I just plug my smart charger straight into it when I put the boat away.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2015 at 9:05am
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Real cheap battery monitor.. get a $10 multi meter and replace the probes with cig lighter plug....
Or turn on your gps/ sounder  most have voltage read outs....
Either if note the voltage drop when firing u the engine and/ with engine running with everything turned on will pick up and faults in charging and/ or battery conditions... before they become an issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Big -Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2015 at 11:23pm
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i use a trickle charger on both batteries, lock the center isolator in so both batteries are connected. Pluged in through a ciggie socket near the back of the boat.

While on the water, i use the fish finder to show battery voltage, and an alarm set for if it gets low. 
When ever starting and moving off, i tend to glance at the fish finder to see that the voltage has picked up to over 14 volts..

I think the ctek way is the better way if you can get power to the boat. 
I have a 5 watt panel on my tractor battery, with a charge controller, and it struggles in the winter..
you can't fix an idiot with duct tape, but it does muffle them for a while...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kandrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2015 at 7:12am
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Thing I like about the Ctek is you can see the condition of the battery at any time, you don't have plug things in, turn on fish finders. When the boats sitting in the driveway with the cover on I just lift up the cover and can see which color light is flashing and know if I need to plug the charger in.

Then if the battery needs charging, I don't have to undo the battery box, I just plug the Ctek charger straight into the end of the comfort indicator.

Ctek also do one you can mount on the dash. I have a battery mounted on the front of my trailer for my electric winch, I used one of the cheap solar chargers but I found it just wasn't up to the job. As the battery got down from use the solar charger just didn't have the grunt to charge the battery back up again. Might be been alright to maintain a charge level but as far as charging a battery even a small amount they are just a waste of money.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2015 at 8:27am
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I have a battery mounted on the front of my trailer for my electric winch, I used one of the cheap solar chargers but I found it just wasn't up to the job. As the battery got down from use the solar charger just didn't have the grunt to charge the battery back up again. Might be been alright to maintain a charge level but as far as charging a battery even a small amount they are just a waste of money. 

If one reads the instructions that comes with them they say it is not designed to do charge up... If u sit down and work out the amount of energy (amp/ hrs) u suck out of the battery and considering that the small ones are 5W or about 0.4 amps at full sunlight...thats weeks to effectively to charge up.
Thats like using a 1966 mini to do long haul cartage

I have a 5 watt panel on my tractor battery, with a charge controller, and it struggles in the winter.
I assume the panel is mounted for best direct sunlight... the main issue with things like tractors, even electric fences as I have mentioned above.. dirty battery cases tops, espec when get damp causing leakage in excess of the amount of sunlight and what the panel is capable of.. espec at night

Battery tops must be kept clean at all times.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Big -Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2015 at 10:13pm
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have a 5 watt panel on my tractor battery, with a charge controller, and it struggles in the winter.
I assume the panel is mounted for best direct sunlight... the main issue with things like tractors, even electric fences as I have mentioned above.. dirty battery cases tops, espec when get damp causing leakage in excess of the amount of sunlight and what the panel is capable of.. espec at night

Battery tops must be kept clean at all times.

The battery is removed from the tractor and stored in the shed. Clean and dry,
the reality is that the 5 w panel isn't up to it even hough it's on the roof pointing north..
I am looking at a 160 w panel and more house batteries to run a fridge in the caravan, so the 40 w panel might take over tractor battery duties..
you can't fix an idiot with duct tape, but it does muffle them for a while...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2015 at 8:26am
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I would suggest then check the cells.. if not sealed.. and u will ind 1 cell that has a SG different to he rest... look for the odd cell out not the charge state on the hydrometer...
The issue will not be the size of the solar panel but the battery is dieing
Give it a full over night charge....let sit for a day or too, then hook a head light or fire up the tractor.. then check voltage.. it should still show a full charge.
If not its dieing... take down to the local battery/ workshop and get them to drop the meter on.
And when they drop the meter on, ask to watch...watch the instructions on the screen carefully... chances are they either dont know how to use it correctly or possibility trying to sell a new battery regardless.... the number of 'professional ' ppl who use these incorrectly .. dont read/ follow instruction is unbelievable

But what u describe... winter, colder temps doesnt keep up holding charge etc are all classic dieing battery cell... not far off dead.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote David056 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2021 at 9:50pm
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the modern day panels work with limited sunlight but trickle is exactly that,they will not keep up with demand off grid,MATTOO, when anchored just run on house,my house is 560? and is more than enough as per previous thread, and cabin lights with electric fridge which we turn off at 10.00pm ish and on 7.00am ish(waeco)and still enough left to start diesel if we forget to turn starter battery on. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2021 at 9:47am
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10.00pm ish and on 7.00am ish...

...running a/c inverter for dvd,2 movies a night and cabin lights with electric fridge....

still enough left to start diesel if we forget to turn starter battery on.

 Doing the maths.. rough guesstimate here... total 3hrs... lets increase 30%  make 4hrs.
DVD /TV...85w/hr  inverter.. 15w /hr lights 10w/hr fridge(not going all of the time) 60w/3 20w/hr
make it 130w/hr for 3 hrs
400w/hr
240v I assume
400/240 is 2amp/hr
battery around  560cca is ball park around 70 to 80 ah.
ie 75amps per hr for 20hrs.
Battery doesnt even get close to using storage.

Havnt checked my number above, regardless dont even need a sunny day for a few days on that..

A basic 40w charging / maintenance  panel will deliver around 35+ w per hr, nett to the battery, fridges etc.. Thats about 4hrs sunny day charge.. which can be divided up over 1 to around a week.

Before ppl start to cry.. cca and A/hr are totally different..cant cal;c from one to the other yep correct.
 On the other hand a very general ball park guesstimate for pb acid batteries is cca/ 7.25 gives a/hr.


If installing charging.. as against maintaining charge panels.. taking the time to crunch a few basic numbers makes for well set up systems  with no hit in miss.


And the same goes for house solar
.
When we got panels on the house.. they recommended 12 panels.. I crunched numbers and worked out to 13, so got 14.
With no battery one aims for using 50% of production and ave draw from grid 50%... which we are withing either side by 2 to 3%
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MATTOO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2021 at 5:40pm
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So I'm sure I owe this post an update.
Those panels didn't work.

The why, well, I put on far too many toys.
And as I set this rig up for staying away for more than three days I started to have huge energy shortfalls.
Nievely I thought my alternator would pick up the shortfall.
How wrong was I.
After a few subsequent series of energy failures. Several that I lost throttle control multiple times during anchoring, refuelling and then loss off power returning from a long days trolling and fortunately in large but forgiving and following sea and with numerous assessments between each experience I have put the effort into solving the problem.

I completely lost my GAMEFISHING season. Still I like to come home and won't put anybody on board.

So what I knew was that my smart craft and fly by wire was continually failing.
Smart craft being the tool for mercury.

I had two one year old batteries that both collapsed.
A start and deep cycle.

First port of investigation was the batteries. All good on purchase.
Then the alternator.
All good and in excellent condition.
I then spent months chasing my worst subject.
Electrics.

In this learning I discovered I had an energy shortfall.
I built an excell program to list all energy use and input.
I discovered I had a 2000 watt loss every 24 hours.
Hence day trips were just ok and longer periods were the problem.
Again too many toys right.

Energy loss of that magnitude effects the smart craft and fly by wire system with those items needing minimum operable current draws.

I'm going to miss out the finer details of all of this and try and keep it general.

So firstly I have an energy loss against what I could produce.
So as the start batteries are the most important to an isolated use of energy loss to computer, steering and throttle I've now put I n two start batteries on recommendation from mercury and others.
I've increased the house batteries to two and increased the amp hours.

I couldn't improve the alternator either by replacement or size.

I could improve the solar array.
So I now have a 150w unit with a victron 75/15 solar controller.

Now without adding another generating source of energy such as a generator I have moved forward.

So with energy use management and new energy storage systems I'm hoping for a better outcome.

So that's my abbreviated story to date.
Just cruising in my now sweetas pimped out Southern 755 HT0!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2021 at 6:12pm
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Hmm that story brings back memories of my hot rodding / muscle car days.. Get a matchin numbers, late 60s , say Camaro and has about a 63 amp alternator...
If one traveled on a wet cold night for a long distance.. heater fans, wipers, light on high, and added .. nothing fancy, just a slightly more modern than the orginal AM radio...the head lights would slowly dim.. And stop for a pee.. not enough grunt to re fire the engine if a little over advanced as ppl used to do back then..
 On the other hand , step ahead 50yrs, swap lights to LEDss and will just make the grade.
A std 105amp alternator sorted the issues fine.

 Same issue with  think the Nelson city council recently and their new buildings.. cold because the engineer (not sure should call him an engineer for such basic error thu) did not spec the transformer to cover the power requirements

On a grander scales Im sure we will see the same for NZ...even if they get batteries to store...it still long term.. be a week, season or day....supply still needs to have good margin agains use...
Or end up like Adelaide and their water... build more damns to sore for dry periods.... except, never got the rain to fill them..
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Titahi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2021 at 7:35pm
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I use a Projecta 120w folding solar blanket when doing extended camping trips, I connect it through a meter to a ctek dc/dc charger which regulates the voltage. The best i have had from a days charging is 48 amps total for a day, which is adequate to keep the 100AH deep cycle topped up, running  lights and a 80l engel fridge set to 1 degree ( cold beer is essential)

All of this is in a dual battery set up landcruiser, but can be easily extrapolated to a boat...
"I love standing by the ocean and just knowing what its for"
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Big -Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 2021 at 1:51pm
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Interesting reading through the past posts..
I found a problem with my 5 watt panel, and the 10 plus year old tractor battery is doing fine..

I've recently put a separate 12v system in my patrol, and a fridge/freezer, brought a foldable 160 w solar panel, but found it too big for stowing anywhere, so it's permanent on the roof now. I'm sure in summer months, the fridge would run non stop..
you can't fix an idiot with duct tape, but it does muffle them for a while...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Big -Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 2021 at 1:53pm
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Oh, and many years ago, I was advised, spend money on efficiency, not capacity. Get efficient alliances and lights, instead of huge batteries and panels.
you can't fix an idiot with duct tape, but it does muffle them for a while...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2021 at 9:16am
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Oh, and many years ago, I was advised, spend money on efficiency, not capacity. Get efficient alliances and lights, instead of huge batteries and panels.

 Yeah.. my example on the chevies above.. swap the old incandescent lights.. in particular the headlights to led  issue gone but border line on wet cold night, lights fans wipers on std 63 amp alternator.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MATTOO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2021 at 5:39pm
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Titahi,
Onto it.

The supposed quality of the Victorian solar controller was a myth.

Even supposed marine solar specialists didn't see the fault in my system.

The Victorian was great with the app.
But actual use in my needs, failure.

What I learnt over some time was possibly a dc- dc convert or was a better answer.
So I purchased a redarc tool.
It linked immediately.
Haven't done a full trial yet.
But it suggests the best alternative yet.

I'm reservedly happy.
Will report on actual results.
Just cruising in my now sweetas pimped out Southern 755 HT0!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fraser Hocks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2021 at 9:11am
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LOL

This Victorian solar controller, does it look like this 


Or this 



LOLLOLLOL

I think you may mean VICTRON not VICTORIAN Matto? 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fraser Hocks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2021 at 9:20am
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Many of us in campervans have been running full solar systems for quite a while.  On mine and my wife's small van we run 260w of solar with 210ah (2x105ah deep cycle batteries) and that works a treat for us.  We never need to plug in.   The house batteries are connected via a VSR, but I don't think that really adds much power to our batteries in reality.

We do have all lighting via LED and our only real main drain is the fridge freezer which is 90lt, and that's mainly due to it being constantly on.  Amazing how much draw the tv, satellite box and amp draw combined when on in the evening, but at worst we might watch a couple of hrs each evening.  

Lots of bad advice out there as well.  My brother lives in WA and he fitted a 100w solar panel and 100ah battery to his large caravan as the salesman told him that would be enough for him, his wife and his 3 teenage children Unhappy  I reckon that he needs a system at least 5 times that size, what with the way kids consume power! 
 
Solar panels are cheap in the scheme of things these days, so fit as large as you can feasibly mount.   Remember the outputs stated are in perfect conditions and its rare to have those, so you can realistically only expect about 60% of stated output, most of the time. 

A good quality solar controller will make a difference but its minor really.  Still nice to have bluetooth and be able to monitor your input and outputs. 

Batteries are another one.  Now that LiFeP04 and such batteries are becoming more cost effective, they can make a huge difference as they can store energy far more rapidly than the old lead acid.  Still they come at a cost ($300 for Lead acid 100ah as apposed to $800-$900 for a 100ah LiFeP04) they are really coming down in price as time moves on however. 
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