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Broken rod tip - can it be saved?

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The Tamure Kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Broken rod tip - can it be saved?
    Posted: 09 Jun 2016 at 3:09pm
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Hi flyfishos,

My favourite fly rod is/was an old Legacy GIII made by New Zealand company Kelsco Sports finished using  - so I was told when I bought it new - imported Sage 'second' blanks. It certainly looked like a brown Sage. It was a 9'6" 8 weight two piece, which casts beautifully (or did) on the Tongariro, Otamangakau etc.

BUT, unfortunately a direct hit by a forward cast tungsten bomb - in a near gale southerly at the Hydro Pool - shortened it by about a foot. Doh!

Rather than chuck it in the bin, I wonder if anyone has any ideas? 

I presume there's almost zero chance of getting hold of a matching tip section, given the rod's age. 

Any point trying to get the broken end re-crafted into the new 'tip' - even as a harling rod or something? Do any shops here do that? It's not like it can be sent back to Sage under some kind of lifetime warranty.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2016 at 4:29pm
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I once night fished alongside a Kelsco rep at Ruato bay who pulled out 5 double figure trout before 11pm    Those were the nights to remember.
 
I very much doubt that you would find a matching tip for an "old" Legacy rod and Sage wont have a bar of it replacing a 2nds blank.   You could put a graphite sleeve over the break and bind it and glue it with Aroldite but to be frank it will cast like a dog and probably break again near the stiffened joint.   IMO Its fly fishing life is over   Because it was broken so near the tip your best option is to convert it into other fishing rod or retire it with your memories.   I have mended quite a few that were broken low down in the lower half with little difference in casting performance.   
 
Rods have come a long way and if you are strapped for cash buy one of the top Airflo rods like the Tactical or Bandit.    They are way better than that old RP3 blank that Kelsco used.    If you are mainly fishing the Tonga get one with a fast action for throwing bombs.    By sheer coincidence only an hour ago I wig-wagged a few $1400 imports alongside the above mentioned Airflos and honestly I am still looking for the $1000 difference??????
 
Rainbow  
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2016 at 5:00pm
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I will check when I get a chance (might take a week or so) but I may have the same rod with a broken bottom section. Haven't used it for a few years so not 100% sure if the top or bottom section is broken, and not 100% where it is at home. Seem to remember that the bottom section got broken when floating down the Mohaka. Was an awesome rod to use and was gutted when I broke it.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Uncle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2016 at 5:23pm
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I still have an old Sage RP2 sitting here that hasn't seen water for a few years.
Lots of memories tied up with that ol' girl & your thread, Tamure has prompted me to show it some daylight & give it a wig-waggle, as Herb so aptly described itBig smile 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2016 at 8:25pm
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There you are miracles do happen.    Must be a few still collecting dust in dark cupboards.
 
Reminds me when a fishing friends phoned to ask what I thought of the Legacy as he was contemplating of upgrading.    At that time we had a house with a waterlilly pond that was large enough to double as a casting pool.
When he came round to show me his Asian made rod I could clearly see that he was  hoping that I would support his view that the old rod was not up to it anymore.    Well, we put a line on and surprise surprise the Asian rod was not too bad.    I got him to cast and almost straight away I noticed several serious casting no noes.     When I told him that he would be better off to get some casting lessons he agreed but I could see that he was not convinced at all as he kept rabbiting on about the Legacy.    Finally I got so pissed off that I strung up my Loomis IMX, which was at that time the most expensive rod in the country.    I got him to have a few casts and as expected the same casting faults emerged.  When we parted I thought that I had finally got through to him.     But no, a couple of weeks later he phoned and proudly told me that he got the "Rod".   
 
It just shows that when we in the grip of an obsession, logic does not come into it.  
 
Rainbow  
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2016 at 8:15am
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I broke 6" of the tip of my 7' 2" okuma soft bait in the new year.. in the back of the truck.
Gutted...so big research ask around etc. ?In the mean time I put a new eye on the top, see how it did go.
Was surprised just how well it did perform thu, best comparison would be between the shamano katana and the okuma x factor... 
Since it was also a obsoleted model sourcing a new upper was not on the card.
Yes can splice.. expoxies, sleeves whipping etc, and even thu some off shore experts recon they can fix to original performance, the science to do so is just not there.

I replaced with a little shorter okuma nano matrix...missing the extra few inches,  still nice cast...tiny pros and cons compared to my orginal but still very happy considering.
Old rod religated to guest soft bait stray line .....but think the wife has her eye on it after using last trip, over her x factor.

Only real way to fix, is replace the section from a same rod...may I should have also posted and some had an old rod laying around to
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote bazza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2016 at 9:17am
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Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:

I broke 6" of the tip of my 7' 2" okuma soft bait in the new year.. in the back of the truck.
Gutted...so big research ask around etc. ?In the mean time I put a new eye on the top, see how it did go.
Was surprised just how well it did perform thu, best comparison would be between the shamano katana and the okuma x factor... 
Since it was also a obsoleted model sourcing a new upper was not on the card.
Yes can splice.. expoxies, sleeves whipping etc, and even thu some off shore experts recon they can fix to original performance, the science to do so is just not there.

I replaced with a little shorter okuma nano matrix...missing the extra few inches,  still nice cast...tiny pros and cons compared to my orginal but still very happy considering.
Old rod religated to guest soft bait stray line .....but think the wife has her eye on it after using last trip, over her x factor.

Only real way to fix, is replace the section from a same rod...may I should have also posted and some had an old rod laying around to
 
Likewise I broke about 125 mm of the tip of my then favourite rod an 8' 6''  5/6 wt older model sage.
 
Like steps I figured there was nothing to be lost by putting a suitable tip on the end of the now shortened rod & after doing so was amazed to find there was little or no difference.
 
Worth a try for yourself I reckon.
As I go older I have learnt that pleasing everyone is impossible but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake !!!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2016 at 9:36am
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10" made enough difference to pout the rod back into the lower performing 'class' of rod...
I got a rod re tipped a few yrs ago.. to my amazement... the end cleaned trimmed off to good un splintered shaft.. couple mm only...correct diameter guide selected, and just a bit of hot melt glue Ermm That guest rod is still good many years on.
Because I wanted to keep my options open.. splicing the old tip in the future and bank account bit low to replace after xmas expenses etc... and the splinted section was a couple mms....I also just hot melt glues the new tip on, and put the broken section away in a draw.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The Tamure Kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2016 at 1:33pm
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Thanks everyone for your input - it's not every day you get legends like Rainbow and Uncle weighing in on a question, appreciate it.

The "Sage" Legacy has quite a powerful action and stiff tip  - i think the right term is 'fast'. It certainly could crank out a 9 wt line on the Tongariro, armed with a typical sparrow indicator and nymphs.

I'll take a pic and post it later on.

I'm not very clued up on rod binding etc, but I'm sure there are some useful videos on YouTube.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The Tamure Kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2016 at 9:25pm
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here's the rod, you can see the brown blank. I can't remember exactly, but I think I bought this at the old Tisdalls store in Queen St, Auckland which at that time was managed by another Kiwi flyfishing legend John Giacon. I was a new graduate and couldn't afford the likes of the real Sage rods. And I was stepping up from a Kilwell fibreglass rod, so it felt like magic in my hands.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote makka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2016 at 8:55am
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Where are you located?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Crayzie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2016 at 7:24pm
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Hi TMK:  I also own a Legacy GIII - beautiful rod and as you say made from a Sage blank. I did much the same thing. I slipped over while wading one day and tapped it on a rock just below the 5th ring from the tip. I did not think I had done any damage until the top end shot off down the line quite a few casts later. 

I made an insurance claim on that one and upgraded to a Strudwick 9'. But not wanting to give up on the broken Legacy I repaired it by inserting a piece from another broken graphite tip down the inside from the butt end. That did take a fair bit of trial and error to get the fit snug. I then pre-coated the inside of the break with epoxy. Once that set I made a sleeve for the outside and when that set I tapered and bound the ends of the sleeve. Well you know that rod still casts like a dream and I really did not notice any significant dead spot.

The Strudwick is also a lovely rod and I use that mostly as it is a four piece rod. But would you believe it? It happened again. The Struddy broke just on the 4th snake ring from the tip. This time I did the same repair method but as it was right on the ring I left out the outer sleeve. Maybe I just got lucky both times but two years later that rod is still working beautifully.  

Which just shows it can be done. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The Tamure Kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2016 at 7:24pm
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Hi Makka, I'm in SE Auckland.

I just had a measure - the clean break is about a foot from the tip. So the remaining length is about 8'6". But of course the 'tip' now is considerably thicker than the original, and where the bomb hit the rod is about half way between rod guides. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote makka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2016 at 10:17pm
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Bugger, if you were a bit closer to wellington I would have a crack at fixing it for you.

Doing a repair similar to
Crazyie you should be able to get it close to being as it was
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The Tamure Kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2016 at 11:04pm
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Hi Tagit,

It would be awesome if you had a top half to go with my rod!
Look forward to hearing if you do.

I was gutted when I had my mishap on the 'last cast' of the day. Probably dropped the back cast a bit with fatigue, combined with the nasty side wind altering the flight path at the wrong time. 

That blank seemed to suit my casting style, and I loved the slightly longer rod - great for nymphing mending, and a bit of extra length above the weeds at places like Otamangakau and Okataina.

Very fond memories using it. My PB on the GIII rod is a 77cm, 14lb rainbow from Lake Otamangakau; and it's also dealt to a double figure brownie nymphing the Hydro Pool casting from opposite the little stream in the days when there was a huge boulder at the mouth, and a couple of hogs in the big fish heyday at Aniwhenua. 

Hi Crayzie,

Thanks for the advice. Good to know there are still some other GIII fans around. I'll wait to hear if Tagit finds the 'Holy Grail' in his basement. If it's a no go, then I'll think about embarking on a fix job. I don't have any broken tips, though (thankfully, it's the first rod i've ever broken).

Hi Makka,

Thanks for considering having a go for me. I lived in Island Bay for a couple of years, but have returned to the big smoke.

Tamure Kid
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Crayzie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2016 at 12:40am
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OK TK,  if you do decide to try and fix it - what I did was ask at my local sports shop that does repairs and they gave me some bits of broken rod tip.  You can PM me for advice on that if you wish. Good luck!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tyleratkinson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2017 at 5:58pm
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Ive got a legacy GIII for sale if your interested
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rainbow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2017 at 4:15pm
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If you are going to fix it this is my suggestion.     Get a broken rod tip preferably from a fly rod.     Take the guides off from the broken tip and insert the broken tip into the larger diameter tip .    Stick something in to measure where your broken rod tip sits.    Then mark about 30mm on either side and cut the sleeve.   Coat the last 40mm of your tip thinly with Araldite and slide it up the sleeve for a real tight fit.     Do the same with 30mm of you bottom section and insert that up into the sleeve until the two parts meet.   Make sure you line both parts up how they used to be .   You will need to bind the ends of the sleeve before you insert the rod parts to stop it from busting open.    Being so close to the tip there will be a flat spot in the bend and the rod will probably have a bit more swing weight as the tip is heavier.    Why I suggested removing the guides?    Feeding every thing up from the bottom allows you to get the best and tightest fit inside the tapered sleeve.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fraser Hocks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2017 at 9:56am
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hey there Tamure Kid, never did hear back if Tagit found that spare tip for you last year?  

What was the outcome? Was a pot of gold found or did you move onto a new rod? 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote The Tamure Kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2017 at 11:39am
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Hi Fraser, 
No, I didn't. I think he just got busy, and it was a long shot in any case. 

I have a CD Rods rod that I use instead of the GIII, but I'd love to have that rod back to useability. It just seemed to suit my casting style.

Funny how this thread has popped up again. I have an older model Kilwell - my first graphite rod after upgrading from one of the old fibreglass blue Kilwells that I started fishing with - that I could maybe try Rainbow's suggestion with (realistically, I'm not going to use the rod again). Not that I'm very handy with that kind of thing.



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