FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Bow Hunting black stingray - Ban it.

Page  <1 234
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Millsy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2016 at 4:06pm
Millsy View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum


Joined: 11 May 2010
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 1541
Exposure and activism have been the gateways for many law changes in NZ. This forum has it's uses, one of those being exposure. Amazing how many people had absolutely no idea this was going on.

Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote FISHBYFLY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2016 at 5:38pm
FISHBYFLY View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum
Avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1435
Yip, I saw those clowns last weekend up the north end,
from a distance I thought it was some flydudes,
 
then they got within 200metres of me,stop to a halt
saw the 'Hunter' basicly aim  straight out of the bow.
Vertical shot, prey would have been at most 2 metres from bow.
Fire.
#2 guy throws a plastic float overboard,,,,,,,
ray must of died instantly cause they had it on hand pretty quick.
Couldn't see what happened to prey.
Pretty sure they didn't keep it, hard to no.
Then fired up motor.
And buggerd of to tanners ramp.
 
Now if the world is gonna class that as 'Sport'
I NEVER  want to be addressed as a 'Sportsman', F@#$%KN period!
 
On a Brighter Note,
Wasn't a bad day out,
Landed a  of rat,dropped another, Nothing exciting
Both fish I found by hanging around spots were 'Black Winged' Gulls were sitting in groups on the waters edge, standing on the ready.
Not the first time ive encountered that with those gulls.
Buggered if I no how they they can predict a kingy is  about.
maybe its the congregation of baitfish or viseversa, pretty cool anyways.
 
By Fly, Nothing Else,Just Fly
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (2) Likes(2)   Quote Millsy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2017 at 4:00pm
Millsy View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum


Joined: 11 May 2010
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 1541
There has been progress on this front. If you follow the Tauranga Fishing FB page you may have seen the post there regarding this appalling behavior.

It appears that the issue has been taken up with the president of the NZBHS Graeme Warrender. He is calling an AGM this coming Friday to discuss dropping black rays and possibly even eels from their "points" system. Two animals that have cultural significance in NZ, is it any wonder they are not popular.

What it apparent from info inside the NZBHS is that animals are killed for points. I'll leave you all to think about that one.

What is clear is that they have been caught out and called out. This practice is no longer acceptable. To simply say they [the NZBHS] have no control of their members or people outside their "club" is also unacceptable. They have portrayed this activity and even glorified it for years. To simply walk away now is a cop out. They need to make it crystal clear this is not acceptable, remove the pictures and their "hall of shame" records from their webpage.

Good on Mr Warrender for instigating this change from within his organisation. Top marks chap.

To all those who supported this thread and change, thanks. 

We will watch how this develops. I have heard a certain TV program may be running a story on it.




Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Millsy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2017 at 11:38am
Millsy View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum


Joined: 11 May 2010
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 1541

Here is the latest: (3rd hand)

Graeme Warrender has spoken with the researcher who is tagging black short tail rays in Tauranga Harbour. He has agreed to stop NZBHS members from killing short tail rays in the short term until that research is completed.

This is only temporary and ONLY for the Tauranga harbour.

This is a soft reply.

Which mean the fight continues. Hard to believe that in 2017 New Zealanders will kill animals endemic to NZ waters to gain points as a means to become "masters".

If you feel strongly about opposing this practice make your point heard. Contact your local MP and whoever else you can.

If you'd like to speak to Graeme Warrender directly PM me for his cell phone number.

Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote FishMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2017 at 3:20pm
FishMan View Drop Down
Moderator - Brown Belt
Moderator - Brown Belt
Avatar

Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Location: Bay of Islands
Status: Offline
Points: 3860
That is crazy Angry How can anyone randomly stick an arrow in a stingray and not feel some level of guilt? There are plenty of non-native pests hanging around our hills for them to practice on. Why do they have to shoot rays?

Thanks for bringing it to our attention Millsy.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Virtualgamble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2017 at 10:24am
Virtualgamble View Drop Down
Bronze
Bronze


Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 91
Lots of good points here all round.  Really appreciate you chasing this up Millsy. 
I'd like to see it discussed at the Tauranga meet up.  I have suggested conservation as a night-time topic and this would fit in under that but so far I have just harassed Matto to act as an adjudicator for control for a range of topics - I am not sure who is really the puppet master for the event?
Clearly fly fishermen and women have a vested interest in seeing it stop so I wonder if some sort of covert operation is required here?  Now, before your imagination goes crazy (mine did), what about getting the researcher to present to us as a start and should we see if there is a way we can sponsor further research (or legasea)?   
 
There might be no chance the researcher could speak to a NZBHS meeting but I could be wrong.
 
Certainly hunters abroad consider themselves conservationists and have a sense of ethics - not saying NZers don't, but I wonder if there is anything to be learnt there?  I think in particular because it is native species in North America that are hunted, the ethics are strong to sustain stocks. 
 
It would make a great short film piece too - some fly fishing on the flats, sea-scape, music and boating bling with a more serious theme of sharing knowledge about how we can conserve and restore habitats and fisheries.  The flashy festival films are nice but I find some leave me feeling a little hollow. 
 
Anyway I hope we can discuss in Tauranga. 
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Millsy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2017 at 1:06pm
Millsy View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum


Joined: 11 May 2010
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 1541
Originally posted by Virtualgamble Virtualgamble wrote:

 
There might be no chance the researcher could speak to a NZBHS meeting but I could be wrong.
 
The "researcher" has spoken directly to Graeme Warrender president of the NZHBS from what I understand. After all that has been conveyed Mr Warrender still thinks this is acceptable in NZ but has agreed to stop killing rays as part of their NZBHS points system in Tauranga for now, as long as the research continues. How giving of him, like he has some sort of ownership.


Originally posted by Virtualgamble Virtualgamble wrote:

 
Certainly hunters abroad consider themselves conservationists and have a sense of ethics - not saying NZers don't, but I wonder if there is anything to be learnt there?  I think in particular because it is native species in North America that are hunted, the ethics are strong to sustain stocks. 
I have spoken to several international bow hunters who also have an interest in Fly Fishing, mainly state side. They all think this is appalling and not a good look for NZ or the activity of bow hunting. NZBHS is out on their own here.

Originally posted by Virtualgamble Virtualgamble wrote:

 
It would make a great short film piece too - some fly fishing on the flats, sea-scape, music and boating bling with a more serious theme of sharing knowledge about how we can conserve and restore habitats and fisheries.  The flashy festival films are nice but I find some leave me feeling a little hollow. 
Watch this space. 

NZBHS could have been the winner in this story. They could have come out and said, "we've sorry this has been the culture but we've changed and now realise the significance of these endemic fish species to NZ". Or something along those lines.

However, it appears ego or a lack of vision has stifled their shift into the 21st century. They would have to have thick skins to continue this practice. Good luck with that approach. 



Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kaimaikid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2017 at 7:56pm
kaimaikid View Drop Down
Silver
Silver
Avatar

Joined: 13 Nov 2014
Location: Tauranga
Status: Offline
Points: 488
Absolutely sickens me to the gut that anyone could go after stingrays, eaglerays, sunfish, ect to just kill and dump them for bragging rights

It would be so easy to get a viral thread going similar to the prick that shot the lion viral thread that would make all bowhunters look like scumbags - I don't want to do this until we hear back from their committee meeting tonight and get assurances that they are taking this seriously.

If anyone hears back from Graeme either tonight or tomorrow please let me know otherwise the first shots will be fired all over social media
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote taurangatroutmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2017 at 11:47am
taurangatroutmaster View Drop Down
Silver
Silver


Joined: 10 Mar 2012
Location: west coast auck
Status: Offline
Points: 205
i dont care if this is legal. if i see any of these scumbags doing this they wouldnt be getting there bow back, id make sure of that. lowlife scumbags killing magestic creatures for points, ffs.  people like this make me ashamed to be human
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kaimaikid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2017 at 3:25pm
kaimaikid View Drop Down
Silver
Silver
Avatar

Joined: 13 Nov 2014
Location: Tauranga
Status: Offline
Points: 488
Spoke to Graeme Warrender, President for the NZ bow hunters soc. this morning, they had their committee meeting last night and he has assured me the black stingrays have now been removed from their points list and also said that they will be leaving stingrays alone in the Tauranga Harbour while the stingray study is underway.

The decision was met with a little opposition as in who the hell are we to demand this from them when we have only been fishing for kings from stingrays for 5 minutes when they have been doing it for the last 40 odd years.

So please if you see anyone targeting stingrays get a good photo of them, their boat name and any other details and post it here as chances are they won't be part of the bow hunters and its the best way to put pressure on the buggers
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Millsy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2017 at 4:45pm
Millsy View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum


Joined: 11 May 2010
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 1541
Yeah, it appears they couldn't make the decision for purely ethical reasons it was more that their hand was forced on the Tauranga issue.

I have no issue with them or spear hunters using that method to gather food (it's hardly a catch and release sport). The issue is with the intent behind the method i.e they kill as part of a points system and that is the culture they are putting out there. I guess we will have to wait a little while longer and continue the pressure to get this group into the 21st century.

I have contacted a number of iwi over this. It wont end here. NZBHS and bow hunters who engage in ray killing or eel killing will remain unpopular by the vast majority.




Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote wolfie5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2017 at 10:36pm
wolfie5 View Drop Down
Gold
Gold
Avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2002
Location: Auckland
Status: Offline
Points: 610
Slightly off topic - but NZ should trade off beached pilot whales to the Japanese in exchange for stopping scientific whaling.
A win-win: they would probably end up with more tonnage for less effort and be saving DOC a lot of effort and money ...Wink
The Auckland Swoffer
www.AucklandSwoffer.wordpress.com
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote FishMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2017 at 5:07am
FishMan View Drop Down
Moderator - Brown Belt
Moderator - Brown Belt
Avatar

Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Location: Bay of Islands
Status: Offline
Points: 3860
Yes, completely off-topic, but the arguments between stopping whaling and stopping stingray spearing by bow hunters have some similarity. When told their actions are offensive and that they should stop the offending parties tend not to go quietly.  Very often the opposite happens.

In the case of the Japanese the argument involved potential severe loss of face if they capitulated- so of course it's not going to happen. Had the whaling issues been addressed at the Japanese level in a far different way better progress could have been made. 

Same deal with stingray bow hunting. I don't think forcing old clubs to change old rules is necessarily the answer. Just letting them quietly know that their actions are offensive probably works better in the long run.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Millsy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2017 at 8:52am
Millsy View Drop Down
Platinum
Platinum


Joined: 11 May 2010
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 1541
wolfie, on the whale front:

When Dolphins and Orca die their bodies are treated and apparently classed as toxic waste due to the amount of toxins they absorb over the course of their lifetime. Something I learnt last year on a course covering MARPOL (marine pollution prevention from ships etc)

We also know that Orca young are not living as long as they should because the milk they get from their mothers is also full of PCB toxins these days.

Just the world we as humans have created and the way it is. Ignorance will not amount to bliss in the end.

On the ray front; Asking bow hunters quietly didn't work Craig. Like it or not they started this culture [or anti-culture as some see it]. There is still strong opposition within NZBHS to removing eel and black rays from their list of target species. So how long this change lasts is unknown, hence the pressure will continue. 


Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Jofly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2017 at 8:29pm
Jofly View Drop Down
Bronze
Bronze
Avatar

Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 94
I tend to agree with FishMan. A culture change needs to happen internally and may be a long process. That process starts with a realisation that their actions are not acceptable. This is something that appears to have been acknowledged on some level with the concessions already made on their part. I don't believe all-out social media "war" is the answer. That will just get a defensive response. A more friendly educational approach would achieve more results in the long run.

We need to be mindful of our own actions too. Catch and release fly-fishing would certainly be considered offensive to parts of society. We are also not (solely) gathering food in our pursuit of "pleasure" and we cannot deny that our actions are stressful and injurious to our targets, even if we release them. 

That should leave us all with some food for thought.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote taurangatroutmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 11:54am
taurangatroutmaster View Drop Down
Silver
Silver


Joined: 10 Mar 2012
Location: west coast auck
Status: Offline
Points: 205
you cant compare this to c and r flyfishing.  the fish are usually caught on  smallish hooks that cause minimal damage, usally hooked in the mouth not gut or gills and released in a condition that they will survive most of the time.  a responsible angler would take and utalise any fish that were unlikely to survive.  these clowns are putting arrows through fish that are definatly going to die just for the sake of it, the rays are being killed for no reason other than points or because it somehow makes these idiots feel good.  if they were eating the rays that would be a differant story but its just pointless killing.   not like c and r flyfishing at all
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote FishMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 12:06pm
FishMan View Drop Down
Moderator - Brown Belt
Moderator - Brown Belt
Avatar

Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Location: Bay of Islands
Status: Offline
Points: 3860
Yes, I'm reminded of the Pacific Island villagers who kind of look at fly fishers as some retarded form of fishing person that goes out for long hours each day but never brings anything home. Even in Aitutaki I'm sure half of them think we're all a little bit touched in the head. 

But there is an ocean of difference between, say, shooting a fish for no reason and dumping the carcass and carefully catching and releasing a fish so that it can continue to fight, feed and breed on another day. You only have to ask yourself how long would a tourism industry based on stingray shooting last?? It wouldn't take them long to run out of stingrays.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Kevin.S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2017 at 12:14pm
Kevin.S View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium


Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Location: Waiuku
Status: Offline
Points: 4723
Stingrays are already part of our tourism industry, but in a much better way than shooting them.

Back to Top
Page  <1 234
Forum Jump
Forum Permissions View Drop Down


This page was generated in 0.125 seconds.