600-year-old canoe

Page  <123
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2014 at 7:21pm
pjc View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Location: papakura
Status: Offline
Points: 12468
http://www.elocal.co.nz/view_Article~id~122%20%20%20%20%20%20%20.html

interesting
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Godders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2014 at 8:05pm
Godders View Drop Down
Gold
Gold
Avatar

Joined: 15 May 2014
Location: Auckland
Status: Offline
Points: 812
Yes and then traded it in on a 500 year ol
d centre console the other guy was pi@#ed.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote fish-feeder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2014 at 9:27pm
fish-feeder View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2011
Location: Waiuku goodness
Status: Offline
Points: 3229
nga puhi is the maori all of us hear these days PJC
dont get my personality mixed up with my attitude,my personality is me,my attitude depends on you.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote fish-feeder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2014 at 9:33pm
fish-feeder View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2011
Location: Waiuku goodness
Status: Offline
Points: 3229
heres food for thought. is NZ the only country to be inhabited for such a short time,I mean only 600-800 yrs ago people landed here. Thats where I call big BS,we are at the end of a massive tidal drift from the west most of the year round,wood floats,people always want to see whats over the horizon.
dont get my personality mixed up with my attitude,my personality is me,my attitude depends on you.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote smudge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2014 at 9:37pm
smudge View Drop Down
Moderator - Ninja
Moderator - Ninja
Avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2002
Location: Te Toro
Status: Offline
Points: 32159
Strangely i've never felt the urge to drift the oceans on a piece of wood until i find a new land. About the only sensible post on this thread was AC's and I didn't understand a word of it Big smile
Best gurnard fisherman in my street
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2014 at 10:29pm
pjc View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Location: papakura
Status: Offline
Points: 12468
Originally posted by fish-feeder fish-feeder wrote:

nga puhi is the maori all of us hear these days PJC
should really go to resthome and sit down with the old fella and listen to his knowledge,some of the older community have more knowledge than what is written in books,my aunt at 90 is a living encyclopedia so was her mother at 103,need to tape record these people before its to late.mentioned to my  aunt a few weeks ago about 
waipoua forest and all she said it was tapu,so none the wiser,might have to put the pressure on.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote the angler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2014 at 12:05am
the angler View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 24 Dec 2011
Location: taranaki
Status: Offline
Points: 5541
Originally posted by fish-feeder fish-feeder wrote:

Lemmy,how about the FACT that the nga puhi chief David rankin says they wernt the first ones here? Or all the stories from the tribes around rotorua and taupo saying that they wernt here first...or the fact that the koru pa at taranaki was built at a time when there was clear evidence that not enough people were in NZ let alone taranaki to build it...and man it effectively....it was printed that it was built a long time before the maori were said to arrive? Or the spanish armour found at pouto,or the aboriginal boomerang found in dargaville,or the tamil bell found in wellington harbour,or the 7-8ft tall skeletons found in the raglan caves...with long platted red hair,and samples of a woven tartan cloth found with them.There is alot of evidence hidden and its sad,because its our history,european or maori,we have the right to know.Some sites are worthy of Unesco preservation,but DOC shoves it all under the carpet.
One tribe had its MDNA traced back to iran,as mentioned in the tribes stories,they always knew where and when they came from........


What else do you know about koru pa ? I live about a km away as the crow flies and can quite distinctly see 3 old pa sites from my kitchen window in fact where my house sits was most probably a pa site at some stage as there are old pits and bits and pieces all around us , my mrs and kids take the dogs for a walk over koru pa I didn't realise it had a contentious history, cool.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote bazza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2014 at 10:06am
bazza View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar
OBE - Over Bloody Eighty

Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Location: Mostlyinthepoo
Status: Offline
Points: 17915
OK just to throw some more food for thought into the cooking pot, how many here have read the book simply titled "1421" & If you haven't would strongly suggest you do, your local library should have a copy.

It is written by Gavin Menzies a retired British submarine commander about a huge Chinese fleet of junks that set off to travel the world on a trade mission under the command of admiral Zheng. Now these were not the sort of junks we would think off as many were the size of mini aircraft carriers & the fleet even carried farm animals as well as some were concubine vessels where the crews could find "recreation solace" to relieve the boredom of extended periods at sea.

In his capacity as a submarine commander for many years Menzies was fascinated by discoveries that supported evidence of where this fleet had travelled & also where the currents would have taken them as apparently ocean going junks by virtue of their design are not suited to sailing against the wind therefore are largely reliant on ocean currents.

There have been several "knockers" of this theory so make up your own mind as to its' validity but I came to the conclusion that if only 10% of the many examples quoted were true then it is hard to deny the theory holds water .

Examples include :-

Potatoes / sweet pots / kumara etc. tubers native to Sth. American finding their way to a multitude of counties.
Breeds of chickens native to China now commonly existing in many countries.
Twin tracks of flat paving stones found where the gap between for a keel & the flat stones to suit flat hulls for hauling out
the junks for maintenance or repair.

Then comes the real doozy :-
It is claimed that a ships' bell from a junk was found buried in the sand on a Nth Is west coast beach & that was carbon dated as 14 th century. It further claims that Chinese DNA is found found to be present in some Maori, BUT only originating from female genes which it is theorised resulted from a concubine junk being washed ashore perhaps in a storm on the NZ coast.

The interesting conjecture was the claim that the European explorers such as Columbus, Tasman etc. were hardly likely to sail off to unknown parts of the oceans with only enough food & water for a one way trip unless they knew land existed
along with the proximity.

Menzies claims after approx. 5 yrs Zheng arrived back to China with the fleet much depleted by storms etc to find the emperor who had commissioned the expedition ordered the remaining fleet destroyed along with all records because in the interim his palace had been burnt down with the loss of his favourite concubine all of which he took to be a sign from the gods that they were extremely displeased at his having initiated the expedition.

According to the theory Zheng followed the emperors' orders to destroy everything but could not bare to destroy the charts from his travels before making copies & after his death the copies eventually became available on the black markets around the world such as existed at the time. That alone makes sense to me!

Read the book then make up your own mind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavin_Menzies

PS I understand Menzies has also written two sequels that I have yet to read.


When you cry, feel pain or sadness, no one notices your sorrow .... BUT
fart just ONE time !!!!!!!!!!!
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Reel Deal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2014 at 1:50pm
Reel Deal View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 28 Sep 2003
Location: Whangarei
Status: Offline
Points: 3849
Imagine a ship full of concubines washing up on your isolated beach
Yes I've read that book. They didn't just carry food but grew it on the massive Junk ships. Corn crops on the massive decks, herds of animals etc. The fish farms were odd i thought as why not a line over the side?would have been enough unless they were a fav type of eating fish.?
The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men's lives the hours spent on fishing - Assyrian Proverb
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote fish-feeder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2014 at 4:03pm
fish-feeder View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2011
Location: Waiuku goodness
Status: Offline
Points: 3229
Does anyone have a copy I could Bludge to read? Maybe the fish farms were so they ddnt have to stop sailing, by the size of the boats id assume they would be sailing fastish and wanted to tame full advantage of the seasonal tides while theywere strongest.... maybe
dont get my personality mixed up with my attitude,my personality is me,my attitude depends on you.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Reel Deal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2014 at 4:32pm
Reel Deal View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 28 Sep 2003
Location: Whangarei
Status: Offline
Points: 3849
I think it wasnt till the titanic was a larger ship built and there were hundreds of them a true floating community/country with thousands of people /plants/ animals. What I thought bizarre for the time that they didn't go to conquer as being so advanced they could have but for collecting knowledge. They brought back exotic animals like giraffes and chefs,kings etc to meet with their emperor, then returned them all. They spread corn, sweet potatoes etc amongst the many countries they visited. The apparently visited nz during the years the went round and round the world. It's a interesting read anyway.
The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men's lives the hours spent on fishing - Assyrian Proverb
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Lethal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2014 at 4:56pm
Lethal View Drop Down
Rest In Peace
Rest In Peace
Avatar

Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Location: In our thoughts
Status: Offline
Points: 23636
the crud from the bottom of a fish farm would supply fertilizer for plants, its better than anything you can buy,
ive seen a few hydroponic veggie planter which use a fish pond to feed plants in a high rise building, just guessing why they would breed their own fish... 
Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2014 at 5:44pm
pjc View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Location: papakura
Status: Offline
Points: 12468
one would think the ships were not fast,drifted rather than sailed so time is no problem,as mentioned before maybe they had there species and were unsure what fish at sea was even edible?
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Capt Asparagus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2014 at 8:13pm
Capt Asparagus View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar

Joined: 18 Sep 2002
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 13168
1421is a really interesting book. His follow up book about the Chinese triggering the renaissance is also really very interesting and is pretty well argued through, not as far fetched as it would initially seem.
Nz gets a mention in the original book, wondering why nz has two types of wild pigs, one European, one Asian, how the Kaimanawa horses got here, other stuff like that.
Worth a read eh.
It is only my overwhelming natural humility that mars my perfection.

Captain Asparagus, Superhero, Adventurer.
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote bazza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2014 at 8:24pm
bazza View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar
OBE - Over Bloody Eighty

Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Location: Mostlyinthepoo
Status: Offline
Points: 17915
Originally posted by fish-feeder fish-feeder wrote:

Does anyone have a copy I could Bludge to read? Maybe the fish farms were so they ddnt have to stop sailing, by the size of the boats id assume they would be sailing fastish and wanted to tame full advantage of the seasonal tides while theywere strongest.... maybe


Almost all the libraries have copies, or if not can get one in..
When you cry, feel pain or sadness, no one notices your sorrow .... BUT
fart just ONE time !!!!!!!!!!!
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote lemmy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2014 at 10:16pm
lemmy View Drop Down
Gold
Gold
Avatar

Joined: 10 Jan 2009
Location: Thailand
Status: Offline
Points: 801
Very interesting stuff Bazza , thats the basis for people explaining all the cave paintings that feature reptiles, crocs etc in the South Island that a voyage of "Asian" mariners travelled down here after visiting our Ozzy mates.
Getting down here would be easy enough in a big Downwind type Junk leaving again and Sailing the wrong way home would be challenging?
Back to Top
Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote bazza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2014 at 6:05am
bazza View Drop Down
Titanium
Titanium
Avatar
OBE - Over Bloody Eighty

Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Location: Mostlyinthepoo
Status: Offline
Points: 17915
Originally posted by lemmy lemmy wrote:

Very interesting stuff Bazza , thats the basis for people explaining all the cave paintings that feature reptiles, crocs etc in the South Island that a voyage of "Asian" mariners travelled down here after visiting our Ozzy mates.
Getting down here would be easy enough in a big Downwind type Junk leaving again and Sailing the wrong way home would be challenging?



Apparently this is where having been a submarine commander the author was as were the Chinese in their junks, familiar with ocean currents & claims they would have ideally suited to the voyage undertaken.

Read the book as am sure you will find it fascinating.
When you cry, feel pain or sadness, no one notices your sorrow .... BUT
fart just ONE time !!!!!!!!!!!
Back to Top
Page  <123
Forum Jump
Forum Permissions View Drop Down


This page was generated in 0.742 seconds.

Fishing Reports Visit Reports

Saltwater Fishing Reports
Top of the South Fishing Report - 22/03/24

Tasman and Golden Bay snapper still running hot We are not far away from daylight... Read More >

22 Mar 2024
Saltwater Fishing Reports
Bay of Islands Fishing Report - 22/03/24

Variety is the spice of life On one recent trip, the plan was to spend a... Read More >

22 Mar 2024
Saltwater Fishing Reports
Hauraki Gulf Fishing Report - 22/03/24

Fish where the fish are! Catching fish or just going fishing? I tackle this issue... Read More >

22 Mar 2024
Saltwater Fishing Reports
Inner Hauraki Gulf Fishing Report - 22/03/24

Thoughtful tactics required for better fish Over the course of each year the fishing varies,... Read More >

22 Mar 2024
Fishing bite times Fishing bite times

Major Bites

Minor Bites

Major Bites

Minor Bites