prop help 750 westcoaster 225 yam 4 str

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    Posted: 02 Jan 2012 at 9:23pm
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Can any one help me or tell me who might?
I am currently running a 19x15 and a quarter prop cruising at 18-19 knots at 4000rpm using 40 lph, flat out at 32 knots 5200 rpm using 72 lph.
The boat weighs approx 2750kg fueled and loaded , was hoping for a cruise of around 22-24 knots 35 lph.
any advice much apreciated
Cheers Tony
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2012 at 9:49pm
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Figures sound bad. At 4000rpm, correctly propped you should be closer to 33lph than 40lph. Currently you appear to be a bit over propped based on your fuel burn. A WOT of 5200rpm tends to confirm this. Having said all that, your speeds also seem low for that hp on a 7.5m boat. I don't know what engine you have, so can't check the gear ratio, but if it is a Yamaha F225 with a 2:00:1 box then your 'no prop-slip' speed at 4000rpm would be ~31knts (might want to check my maths). At 19knts you have ~40% slip which says that something is badly wrong. 
Assuming that the hull is clean etc, my first check would be engine height. A too low engine could explain most of what you are experiencing. I doubt that the problem is as simple as having the wrong prop. The other simple possibility is that your prop is damaged in some way. After that the reasons get harder to work out.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Down Time Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2012 at 10:39pm
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Hi tagit
Yes engine is yamaha f225 05 model couldnt tell you Gb ratio tho. hull is clean and engine looks too be at right height. Saying that tho engine is on a pod that extends 320 mm and using a spirit level on the cavatation plate level with the hull shows the cav plate too be 25 mm higher than the bottom of the v. engine currently sits on second hole down from the top. so room to move either way. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote andrem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2012 at 11:35pm
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19 to big for that engine boat IMO.
I have a 7.5m billfisher with an f200 on it. Had a play with a few different props including a 19 which gave similar figures to what. You are stating in your first post ( maybe a little better) currently settled on an 18 4 blade prop which will see me get 5900rpm at wot and cruise at 22knts doing just under 4000 with fuel burn just under 30 Lph.

Have a chat to the guys at propellor services they are pretty helpful.
Rehab
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2012 at 9:54am
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Originally posted by Down Time Down Time wrote:

Hi tagit
Yes engine is yamaha f225 05 model couldnt tell you Gb ratio tho. hull is clean and engine looks too be at right height. Saying that tho engine is on a pod that extends 320 mm and using a spirit level on the cavatation plate level with the hull shows the cav plate too be 25 mm higher than the bottom of the v. engine currently sits on second hole down from the top. so room to move either way. 

Engine height sounds like it should be close. Has the boat always performed like this? Based on similar sized boat/engine combos I would have thought a cruise around 22/23, and your fuel burn at 4000 should be around that 33lph figure with that engine. Are you in Auckland? 
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Yes south auckland, down whitianga way at till next week tho. would be happier with those figures. Had f200 on my last boat 650 sea nymph walkaround with same size prop, was well suited. Which makes me think its too big for this one??
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Thanks Adrem, Good to know. will have a look around for some thing close , its a start anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Bounty Hunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2012 at 12:05pm
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Originally posted by Tagit Tagit wrote:

Figures sound bad. At 4000rpm, correctly propped you should be closer to 33lph than 40lph. Currently you appear to be a bit over propped based on your fuel burn. A WOT of 5200rpm tends to confirm this. Having said all that, your speeds also seem low for that hp on a 7.5m boat. I don't know what engine you have, so can't check the gear ratio, but if it is a Yamaha F225 with a 2:00:1 box then your 'no prop-slip' speed at 4000rpm would be ~31knts (might want to check my maths). At 19knts you have ~40% slip which says that something is badly wrong. 
Assuming that the hull is clean etc, my first check would be engine height. A too low engine could explain most of what you are experiencing. I doubt that the problem is as simple as having the wrong prop. The other simple possibility is that your prop is damaged in some way. After that the reasons get harder to work out.


tagit - can you provide some more info about calculating engine/boatspeed though gearbox and propeller measurements/efficiency

perhaps a link to something?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Big -Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2012 at 2:15pm
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engine revs divided by gearbox ratio gives you prop revs ie 500rpm at 2 to 1 ratio is 2500rpm at the prop.
19 inch prop travels 19 inches per rev, 19 x2500= 47500 inches traveled per minute
Convert inches to meters by dividing 47500 by 39.5 and you get approx 1202 m traveled in that minute. Multiply by 60 and you get 72120 m, or 72 kmh.
Props all have a percentage of slip, depending on load and prop design, so say at 10 %slip, 72 x.9 is about 65kmh realistic speed.
you can't fix an idiot with duct tape, but it does muffle them for a while...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Moki Marko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2012 at 3:35pm
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I'm assuming by 19x15 and a quarter - you mean a 19"pitch and 15 and a 1/4" diameter - (wouldnt fit the other way around anyway)  these numbers mean a big prop, is it a Mirage? A big diameter prop, moves a lot of water with minimal slip, can be a bit slow off the mark, thats no probs on a fishing rig but it isn't a 'top speed' prop. You need lots of torque to turn it too and a 225 yam is a bit anemic in the torque dept. The 19" pitch is also big, too big (we say big but we should say coarse, we're talking about the angle of the blades not the size of the prop) for the weight of your boat- but as Tagit says at 4000rpm with a 19" prop you should be cruising around 25 - 27knots - could it be that you have read the numbers wrong and  you have a 15" pitch? - and 14" diameter is the norm
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2012 at 8:47pm
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MM - the Yamaha website shows mainly 15" diameter props for the F225 if using the 'standard' props. As you say though, the F225 is an anemic 225 compared to some other  brands. I am struggling to work out the high slip figure though as even when turning the rpm's, DT's boat isn't making the speed.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2012 at 8:47pm
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BH - Shrekky saved me the trouble of tying all that. Thanks Shrekky.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote bluesignature Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2012 at 7:23am
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there is one of theese boats with the same motor on trademe the dude has done 650hours in it you could give him a ring to see how he has it set up (0274898628). there is no guarantee the prop is actually 19inch you could get the pitch checked i had a brand new prop that was supposed to be 17inch when checked was 17.7 inch so closer to 18.you could get it checked you could get an inch taken off the pitch cheaper than buying a new prop.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote blackboat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2012 at 7:52am
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yip thats Lone stars boat here he does some big trips so he will know all the figures etc think hes running a 19 
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Originally posted by Tagit Tagit wrote:

MM - the Yamaha website shows mainly 15" diameter props for the F225 if using the 'standard' props. As you say though, the F225 is an anemic 225 compared to some other  brands. I am struggling to work out the high slip figure though as even when turning the rpm's, DT's boat isn't making the speed.


SO the factory props are 15" dia - and a 2:00-1 gearbox reduction - thats a lower gear than the honda or mercs that I have run, so makes sense that it would turn a bigger diameter and coarser pitch prop -  a 19inch may not be too far out of the ballpark, well, close enough to get reasonable numbers for evaluation - so yes, a bit strange - need to try a few different props DT.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Down Time Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2012 at 5:54pm
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Appreciate all the help guys, Did consider enquiring about the prop on the wc on trade me, but that
one is an earlyer shape hull could be different again??
have since found another one the same too check out when it suits. Was lucky enough run into a good bloke in whiti yesterday who let me try his 17x15 and a half results were alot better could reach 5600rpm at 36kn, cruise at 24kn 4000rpm and 36lph. This may be as good as it gets??
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2012 at 6:40pm
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Those figures sound about what you would expect DT. Sounds like a 16" pitch would be ideal as I would prefer to be hitting 5800+, but at 5600 you are probably not doing any harm. What I am surprised about is how poor the original prop was by comparison. Is it in good nick? What type is the original prop, and what type prop did you try today? Some rigs go much better with different prop types even though they may notionally be the same pitch and diameter.
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agree - again, the yam 225 is a short stroke rever, doesn't produce max power untill its almost hitting the rev limiter. ie even at 5600rpm it's still not producing 225hp. SO don't be afraid to rev it's nuts off, you're already suggesting a 4000rpm cruise, thats a good minimum. As Tagit says to get the max out of that motor a 16" prop is probably going to be the best option 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Down Time Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2012 at 9:12pm
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my thought as well Really keen too try a 16. Tagit the prop i tried was a yamaha saltwater series 15 1/2x 17. also when got the boat the skeg tip was broken paint scraped off etc, but prop in exc cond which made me wonder weither they hed slapped this one on for a sale??unsure of brand on existing no visable markings.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Big -Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2012 at 8:49am
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factory props can be next to useless at times.
Yamaha ones are some of the worst in my opinion.
I swapped the solas prop on my honda for a mercury vengeance prop, unbelievable difference.

Many Yamaha and omc owners end up with mercury/quicksilver props on them.
you can't fix an idiot with duct tape, but it does muffle them for a while...
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