Who's been tying?

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote DeVille Incarnate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2014 at 12:38pm
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Hey Kevin, you got a better pic of that useless black and red job - looks like it's articulated from where I'm standing? Thanks.
Approach with extreme caution - I NEVER look where my back cast is going....
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Ahab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2014 at 1:34pm
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Woah, some magnificent work here. Very inspiring. I'm going to tie up some of those clouser/deceiver hybrids as soon as I get a mo'. 

The great majority of my flies are in white, solely because I love sight fishing, and that's the easiest colour for my colourblind eyes to pick up. And the fish love it, too. Funny, I haven't noticed the same pickiness about fly colour that you seem to get with soft plastics. It's very possible that the berley I use makes them throw all caution to the wind, but I've also caught plenty on white without using berley.

Great ties with that fur, Craig. Those long golden primary hairs on the hare fur appeal to me, too. They added great movement to trout nymphs when I was a river fisho. I have a standing order for more pelts for you from down the line.

PS Rudy, that minnow pattern is a real beauty. Has kingi written all over it.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote desmofrankie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2014 at 1:42pm
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Fraser in that case you need to put the eyes below the hook shank, that's what makes your fly ride point up (I guess that's how your fly is designed), the way you've tied that one it will ride point down...
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fraser Hocks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2014 at 5:13pm
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Will have to do some testing? Iv tied up plenty of crazy charlie style flys for fishing lake edges for trout, and iv always found that the flys will land hook point up, due to the wing and tail strands creating enough drag as the fly falls through the water column that they land hook point up. Not sure its going to be the same with a lot heaver dumbbell eyes however, but I will do some testing and report back.

Must say thinking about it from a mechanical point of view, I would have thought that the leverage of the hook from the bend to the point of the hook would be a considerably larger force trying to turn the hook point down, rather than weather the dumbbells were tied on the top of bottom of the hook shank?

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote corokid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2014 at 6:19pm
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No worries Fraser , I'm hardly an expert . Just that all the Gotcha patterns I have followed have been rigged the other way . 

Anyway got a little motivated and cleared the silly ship drawings off my desk and set up my onboard tying kit.
Started with a few bonefish flies. Tied a few of each . Have plenty darker coloured with various weighted eyes , so going to do lighter colours , smaller patterns.
Cant take credit for the big fulla in the background , he snuck in for bit of a pose.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rudy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2014 at 8:53pm
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Nymphomaniac - love the granite counter top!LOL  (you follow the Drake mag forums?)  Great flies everyone.  Cool to see everyone has their own style.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote desmofrankie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2014 at 9:17pm
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Yes great to see more people posting their efforts: I started to feel lonely!

Fraser I get your point and use just a little bed chain (kinda nothing really) on flies with a buck tail wing but I must say that I'm a bit more concerned about the rabbit ones...
Now we're relying ou you to test and tell us if it works or not!!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fraser Hocks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2014 at 10:53pm
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Ok boys a bit of imperial testing has been performed.  I used a very scientific glass pitcher that’s a little over a foot tall was filled with fresh clean Wakatipu water and this was used as my testing apparatus.  (Wished id have video'ed it and put it up for all to see now.  If i get enough spare time I will)

 

I tied up a second fly almost identical to the first fly but with the dumbbell eyes tied on the underside of the hook.   I wet the fly’s out then dropped them a few times into the pitcher with the hook point facing downwards.   In both instances the flys flipped over to been hook point up in the first 50-60mm of water, and then fell with the shank of the hook at about 45degrees from vertical.   Both landed on the bottom with the eye first but settled every time with the hook point up.  So as id expected the wing / tail created enough drag that the flys should always land with the hook point up.  Obviously this isn’t real world testing, as there was no leader attached or tides/water movement and the bottom was a perfectly flat piece of glass, but it’s the best I could do in my living room.

 

Plusses and minuses of the dumbbell eyes either side to the shank?  Well it would be obvious that with the dumbbell been below the shank of the hook, it would make the fly even more stable when on the bottom than one with the dumbbell above the shank.  This way also leaves the hook gape almost completely exposed.  In other words the dumbbell can creates a very minor restriction for the hook to penetrate if above the shank.

 

Negatives are that when sitting on the bottom a dumbbell that’s below the shank makes the hook point ride slightly up from horizontal to the bottom.   This could translate to a slightly lower hookup rate?  But I’m only surmising.    Also with the dumbbell eyes above the shank it helps keep the wing more upright when in the water.   The wing naturally is pulled back as the fly is pulled through the water, so the dumbbell assists in giving the fly a bigger profile.  This been said, you could easily post tie in the wing to keep it more upright, but how many of us would bother?

 

So take from this what you will.  I’m now not sure as to which way il tie the dumbbell eyes in on my crazy charlie’s.   I might tie a few either way and see if I get any noticeably different results when in Aitutaki?

 

Nice tie Corokid!  Going to have to hone my skills a bit more to tie up some of those shrimp imitations.Wink

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote nymphOmaniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2014 at 6:27am
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hey rudy. no havent seen drake forum before but looks good. my bench top is actually really cheap but the picture makes it look good. i chose the location for the best light and it seems to work. i have a simi decent camera which also does a good job.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote desmofrankie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2014 at 6:46am
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Now we're talking about serious comparisons!! Big smile

Cheers for that Fraser, I'll probably keep on tying the eyes below in the name of safety but it's good to know that it's not crucial in case for some reason it's not practical.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Jaapie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2014 at 11:33am
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Hey Flybynite,

Here's those fly pics you asked for mate.

Sorry for rough shot quality, but I didn't set the photobox up.
There is no articulation in these flies, although it is a cool idea if you want to go this route.

I use jig hooks a lot for my clouser patterns as it's a natural turn over for the hook and excellent hook up results usually firmly in jaw. In my opinion big is better as you can see by these flies size.
The badlands we tend to fish also means a lot less snagging up and losing flies and fishing time.
You can confidently fish them in rough foul.

Incidentally, these are the same hooks and patterns I use for barra and saratoga out here in Aussie.

In this series of pictures, I photographed them with the FinNor #4 for size comparison. For those not familiar with this reel, flies would be roughly 6-7 inches.

The smaller fish tend to hit them but don't always hook up and with nothing to scare them keep coming back attracting attention and it's just a mouthful for the bigger fish as it's easily seen.

I generally tie on 2/0 as I fish light tippets predominantly, but upgrade to 3/0 if needed.

ShaunQ has put me onto some hooks that I'm going to have a look at sourcing in the States for some upcoming trips again.

Hope this helps mate.
Drop me a PM if you need any help.Thumbs Up


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Lindsay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2014 at 11:51am
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Thanks for that Jaapie
I found this article about jig hooks very interesting.
http://midcurrent.com/flies/hooks-the-jig-is-up/

"In the last seven to eight years there has been a movement among salty brethren on the left coast toward tying saltwater flies on jig hooks — specifically, jig hooks with 60-degree bends. Now, this movement has grown and spread its way eastward, riding the buzz from a lot of anglers who believe that patterns tied on a 60-degree jig hook are superior."
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Jaapie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2014 at 12:42pm
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Originally posted by Lindsay Lindsay wrote:

Thanks for that Jaapie
I found this article about jig hooks very interesting.
http://midcurrent.com/flies/hooks-the-jig-is-up/

"In the last seven to eight years there has been a movement among salty brethren on the left coast toward tying saltwater flies on jig hooks — specifically, jig hooks with 60-degree bends. Now, this movement has grown and spread its way eastward, riding the buzz from a lot of anglers who believe that patterns tied on a 60-degree jig hook are superior."


Interesting article that mate.

Hadn't seen it before - just had to cut and paste the address as link was invalid.

Interesting they mention Dan Blanton, as he was the bloke that put me onto them about 12 or 13 years now I guess.

There is a bit of a contentious issue with some of the jig hooks opening, but to be fair, it's blokes that fish really heavy leaders and the hook simply can't take the heat.
The EC413 is the hook I'm using and I've given them a torturous testing, so more or less know just how much you can pull on them.

I like this jig hook, but with most things in life I wish they could improve quality to heavier duty.
Same as the 34007 now that the factory changed, quality has gone to poo.

That hook that opened on me recently was Mustad - disappointing after having the hook market cornered for such a long time. Anyway.....separate issue.
"Only when the last tree has died, the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught,will we realize that we cannot eat money" - 19th Century Indian Creed
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rudy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2014 at 12:50pm
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Nymphomaniac - sorry - it's one of many Drakian in-jokes - granite countertops. They're poking fun at the Tightline Productions videos that seem to always feature a granite (or ganite look-alike) counter top background... nothing malicious. Just thought you might be doing the same... all good fun.   
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Lindsay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2014 at 12:55pm
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Originally posted by Jaapie Jaapie wrote:

just had to cut and paste the address as link was invalid.


Sorry. Fixed now.
http://midcurrent.com/flies/hooks-the-jig-is-up/

I'll definitely try the jig hooks because I get far too many snags and lose too many flies.

It's not just about how the fly sinks to the bottom but how it's pulled through the water that counts,.
I your fishing off the land there's often snags to negotiate on the retrieval.
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I did a couple of tests last night in the kitchen sink with dumbell up/down and materials up/down and found the way the materials are tied on makes more of a difference to whether it sits point up or point down.

Deer hair tied inside shank wants to sit point up, deer hair on outside shank wants to sit point down.

SL12's #2
I do not lie about fishing, I willingly participate in a campaign of misinformation.
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Interesting, I've just been put onto the jig hooks for freshwater czech nymphing patterns, especially the heavy bottom bombs with the 4mm tungsten beads.
I do not lie about fishing, I willingly participate in a campaign of misinformation.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote desmofrankie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2014 at 2:36pm
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Same here: this morning I cast a fly with pretty hefty brass dumbbells below the shank but synthetic material reported evenly around... and to my great surprise it came back point down!
A few more casts in the glass like harbour confirmed.

That's actually a very interesting point you've raised Fraser!

I've been keen to play with jig hooks for quite a bit of time but I struggle to find some suitable both for saltwater AND being cast with a 7wt... Anyone's got tips???
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Fraser Hocks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2014 at 3:20pm
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Originally posted by desmofrankie desmofrankie wrote:

That's actually a very interesting point you've raised Fraser!
 

Quite by accident mate. I just tied up the Charlie and didn’t think too much about whether the dumbbells were on the top or bottom of the shank. Corokid pointed out my mistake. Am I a genius or a fool, that just got lucky?LOL

So seems that its not so much the position of the weight, but more about the weight in relation to the fur/feather as to the way it falls in the water column? If only id discovered this back when studying, I could have written a fluid dynamics thesis on it?? DOWwwwCry

Try asking for "weighted worm hooks" at your local tackle store Frank?   They are lightly weighted hooks used for worm fishing, or more commonly now for softplastic fishing.  Not exactly a jig hook, but defently light enough to cast on a 7# without much of a problem.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote desmofrankie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2014 at 8:59pm
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I guess it's just a question of the material acting as a parachute and where that parachute is placed...
All your experiment seem to lead to one conclusion: you should have fished more while studying.Big smile

Doing a bit of research I found out that Casey Smartt recommends the Eagle Claw 413 which is plated and available from size 2.
Best of all it cost pretty much nothing on a famous auction website... but shipping costs sucks! (don't know where to find it here)
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