Is your crank battery getting a bit old?

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    Posted: 01 Mar 2015 at 6:07pm
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Have been 100% happy with the Seamaster MFM 48 which came with the boat when I brought it, as has not given an ounce of trouble & is still performing as good as ever.

However it is close to six years old now & no battery lasts forever so often wonder if it would be prudent to replace it before it inevitably finally gives up the ghost given how much we rely on the battery starting the motor as unlike a vehicle cannot push start an outboard or walk to the nearest garage, neither despite having provision can I rope start mine even when totally stable on dry land. Was thinking about $300 to replace with an equally performing battery however this morning Sailors' Corner had the identical Seamaster MFM 48 on sale @ $129 rated at 720 MCA with 24 mth replacement warranty & suited to motors up to 150 hp. so rushed in & grabbed one.

Now comes the question of how best to install it from the following options :-

( 1 ) Simply swap over the existing battery which is still performing perfectly for the new one.

( 2 ) Continue to use the existing one carrying the new one on board for emergencies or vice versa.

( 3 ) I am very mindful that wiring two or more batteries in parallel can cause serious probs inasmuch as if one battery dies it drags the other/s down as well so that is probably not a good idea. However would it be viable to join them but using an isolating switch between that could be switched to on if required or occasionally to charge it?

Finally as with modern car batteries, are marine crank batteries given to "dying" with little or no warning or are they more like the old time car batteries that gave a bit of warning that they were slowing down before finally packing it in?

Any info appreciated.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MacSkipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2015 at 6:22pm
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Sounds like you are wanting a two battery setup and all the expense involved - you have to use battery regularly to be sure it is okay.

If you are happy to rely on one battery - put new one in and use old one elsewhere or give to a mate who can use - 6 yrs is a good run you may get 8 but who knows? I swap mine out at 5 and my mate uses in his tractor.

My last marine battery that died was flat when I went to use it at ramp - normally it would have been fine as had been used a week before and has an isolation switch. It may give you a warning it may not..
Good fishing trip nothing breaks, great trip catch fish.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2015 at 6:33pm
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Barry,If in doubt swap it out!!Trust me on this one,excellent charge night before go to ramp cold morning and YES you guessed correct.By the way she did say a week before you treat yourself to a new one as it is 5 yrs old,of course we know betterCry
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2015 at 8:31pm
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I have a seamaster gold.3 year old. Often dosent get put on charge as i dont have powewr point in garage and a hassle to run from house,so charger is not used much. Took for warrent last week after battery had sat for 4 weeks. They did a load test and was almost fully charged. Also figure if it starts at ramp then motor will charge it while travelling. Is this correct thinking or not.? as i too wonder about life of marine batteries.
So why not get a load test done on it after it has sat a while unused.

Once had a car battery-not that old either. Started no trouble. Got to destination. 30minutes later went to come home. Battery as dead as could be,just like that. Just hope that sort of thing dosent happen to marine batteries.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote cosmo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2015 at 8:55pm
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keep my on one of those optimum chargers but can also take your old one into a Autostop store and they can check the cca for you
i just want to go fishing..........amd ignore all my adult problems
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote bazza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2015 at 8:58pm
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Originally posted by cirrus cirrus wrote:

I have a seamaster gold.3 year old. Often dosent get put on charge as i dont have powewr point in garage and a hassle to run from house,so charger is not used much. Took for warrent last week after battery had sat for 4 weeks. They did a load test and was almost fully charged. Also figure if it starts at ramp then motor will charge it while travelling. Is this correct thinking or not.? as i too wonder about life of marine batteries.
So why not get a load test done on it after it has sat a while unused.

Once had a car battery-not that old either. Started no trouble. Got to destination. 30minutes later went to come home. Battery as dead as could be,just like that. Just hope that sort of thing dosent happen to marine batteries.



John when I was referring to charging was meaning via the motor alternator by directing charge towards the secondary battery every so often rather than charging via 240 v.

Your questions nevertheless are quite valid in respect to, as most of us do, running a single battery & wanting to know the condition that battery is in regard to starting the motor when required.

I guess the short answer to that is that there is no simple way of doing so however installing a new battery should at least give some peace of mind for the next 5 yrs or so.

I have a couple of solar units that supposedly will keep a battery that is not being used regularly up to or near full charge
that I have not used but have nothing to lose by giving them a go I suppose. One problem is that they charge via the cig lighter & in most vehicle setups the ignition has to be on for them to work which surely rather defeats the purpose.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Lethal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2015 at 9:13pm
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a good indicator your battery is about screwed is your sound/gps unit say's the power/voltage is getting low when starting your outboard.
mine is 8 years old and it has started doing that, it needs changing but i will run it into the ground anyway before i change it,
but i always carry a kick start unit just in case my battery or alternator crap out, plus i can run my phone which has Navionics GPS running all day without going flat plugged into it..
  
Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Big -Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2015 at 7:08am
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getting the battery load tested can be a good idea, or even hooking up a light bulb to it(100 w headlight), let it run for 5 or 6 hours and check the battery voltage..
The other consideration is the age of the battery, and thus mechanical failure of the internal connections. When people say they freshly charged a battery, or drove 30 min ago with it, its a mechanical fracture of something internal in the battery, and the older the battery, the more likely it will happen.

If in doubt, swap it out..peace of mind makes the day on the water far more enjoyable.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2015 at 8:45am
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Gut feelings often turn out reliable.
Murphies law is your best friend.. IF u listen to 'him'
Take the battery up to your local garage.. IF they are in the 21 st century , they will have an expensive bit of that maybe the know how to use correctly...watch them.. they plug in the battery size , factory specs then flick thru a few switches and it reads out several critical performance specs.... these are then compared with the orginal specs to assess the batteries condition over all.

Even so I strongly suggest to invest in a portable jumper battery...and carry as a spare in the boat
They have a cig lighter in the side...
That will run lights, sounder AND a gps anchor light etc over night.. and IF the main battery screws up next morning , fire up a 115 johnson with good compressions.
Can also use to re charge the cell phone etc.
And if the car battery is dead when get back from a trip.. fire the car up.
These things cost about $100.

I always carry spare jumper battery, anchor, spare life jackets, spare prop, 3 sets spare nut/ split pins and spacers for the prop, and other stuff.
Murphy says .. If I drop a prop and need the spare, chances are I will drop the spare pin.. If I have more than 1 spare pin I will not drop it at all...
Used the anchor once.
Main battery died 2x would turn over the motor
Once used the jumper to fire up the motor...even then, the alternator doesnt have the spec amp rating to pull up the anchor winch.. so the jumper handled the balance.. then on the way home the old battery was so low, and sucking the amps out of the alternator.. the motor trim only just worked

End of the day the situations where like this
Battery failed..count to 10 VERY slowly, then panic in a orderly fashion.
carmly pull out the jumper battery...take the strop and cover off the boat battery.. clamp the jumper on....fire up.....do another 4 or 5 drifts... start stops... time to head home usual time.

AND I have a jumper battery to use for other stuff.. like running lights in the tent when camping

All for less than 1/2 the cost of having another spare marine battery laying around getting old while the suspect one is still fine.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MacSkipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2015 at 9:46am
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Good Advice Steps - however my present 50hp outboard has a manual pull start option (cord under cowling) - which I have tried and it works.

So at present I change boat battery 5 yearly and have jumper leads in my car and in boat ... however am looking at repowering this year and if no manual start option on new 4S outboard will invest in a jumper option - what maintenance is required on jump start option? ie should it be replaced 5 yearly or what?
Good fishing trip nothing breaks, great trip catch fish.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2015 at 11:09am
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Pull start..
I learnt a lot the hard way, being young and 1st boat back in the early 70s
A Fleetline 17' bon accord with a 105 Chrysler.
Yep that had a flywheel that one could put a cord around... that was scarry ...took about 10+ attempts to pull start it... 2 ppl and when eventually had the pull cord long enough, pulled and basically ran to the front of the boat, ducking into the cabin.
Top it off there where no cells , VHF was for big boats, we where out in the middle of the Manukau, and the coast guard boat back then was smaller than us, under powered and think owned by a volunteer...with out going tide starting to run...no way would it have towed us...
It did chop up bad on one trip...and the CC boats was heading home .. the stopped and asked if we could head in and they follow with us breaking the chop.

Things have come a long way since then CC, gps, sounders, short and long term weather, braid, even hooks, fluro, rods reels ... but the basics.. batteries etc still remains constant
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tonto2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2015 at 11:30am
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Bazza, you could get a VSR fitted, this is a device that allows the first battery to charge from the alternator but when that battery has reached charge the vsr clicks over to the second battery. Combine this with a 3 postion battery switch and Bobs your uncle.
Don't know your motor but some motors have smaller alternators so may not be the best alternative, Yamaha 70 has only a 7 amp charger from memory, many others run 15 or more.
slowly going where everyone else has already been
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote bazza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2015 at 11:51am
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Thanx Tonto .... that sounds like the sort of thing I was thinking of but not being overly technical on electrical matters guess it would be best to have a professional look at it & give an opinion.

The reason such a setup appeals is that simply installing a new battery does not give 100% assurance it will be trouble free & altho unlikely could malfunction before the existing one, therefore would be comforting to know there was a fully charged spare in reserve.

I will have a go at trying to fix most things but when it comes to outboard or boat motors reckon it is a situation where "a little knowledge can often be dangerous " so best left to the experts.

Steps ... the motor is a 3 cyl 90hp mercury & it does have provision for emergency rope pull start HOWEVER whilst I consider myself to be of at least average strength, I have tried without success, to use the rope to pull start even with the boat on the trailer so there would be little or no chance of doing so if bobbing about at sea.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Lethal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2015 at 3:26pm
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one of these is far more versatile with all its add-ons and kick start 900amps complete with cig sockets air pump,
mines 3years old and i never go out with out it, because i use it regularly 2 to 3 months its recharged before i go fishing overnight i have no problems with it.
i run my phone on it while fishing so its always charged even though the GPS on it is running full time,
it starts the 90 merc no problem...
i payed $65 for mine at a auction, but i see trademe has them for $100 way cheaper than a battery replacement.


*Portable Power & Air Station
*Works as a portable power source, engine starter and air compressor
*A must have car essential for long drives, camping trips and family holidays
*Jump start your car in the middle of nowhere with no other cars around!
*Can power your 12 volt DC products
*Allows you to inflate your mattresses, rafts, toys and more!
*Convenient accessories storage pocket in the back
*Charging indicator and battery level light
*Two powerful work lights
*Inline fuse protection

 
Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2015 at 5:27pm
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Steps ... the motor is a 3 cyl 90hp mercury & it does have provision for emergency rope pull start HOWEVER whilst I consider myself to be of at least average strength, I have tried without success, to use the rope to pull start even with the boat on the trailer so there would be little or no chance of doing so if bobbing about at sea.

Yep...pull start not an option for u or me lol...a simple jumper battery pack like what lethal shows above.. is what we have, and suggested above post... except mine doesnt have all the bells and whistles...
no different to jump start a car

Sry Mac missed this bit of your post


however am looking at repowering this year and if no manual start option on new 4S outboard will invest in a jumper option - what maintenance is required on jump start option? ie should it be replaced 5 yearly or what?

My jumper pack a yellow super cheap unit brought some near 10 years ago...
I keep charged on the normal car battery trickle charger.. unless in the boat, on a roasd trip or camping.
The power lead for the trickle charger is just not long enough lol
I Also use as I said above, when camping a small 1W (think it is) solar charger on the tent roof.. battery lasts for more than a week... The same solar charger sits on the top of the boat engine (velcro) when the boat is parked up.. pluged into a cig lighter in the top of the boat battery box, fused and by passes the main battery switch.. this keeps the boat battery fully charged at all times when parked.

The charge is way more than enough to turn over a high  11:1 compression , low duration cam small block chey V8.. many times over.
In the time I have had it.. I replaced the internal battery once some 3 or 4 yrs ago... about $60 from memory
And last week replaced the cig lighter fitting in the side due to yrs of corrosion.. a elcheapo from super cheap.. $11
Oh when I replaced the battery had the back open.. I replaced the main cables for long ones of a elcheapo set of jumpers from the local flea market...can now sit on the ground if need to use to fire up the chevy.
"work hard at being lazy"

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MacSkipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2015 at 6:04pm
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Thanks steps - I would have expected to change battery in starter jump pack every 5 years or so - reminds of the guy with an auxiliary motor - when did you last run it? replies Dunno. Lot of help in a breakdown!

I go through my safety gear incl now inflatable life jackets, check expiry on flares epirb etc yearly same time as outboard service and WOF and would do same with jumper unit as well.

I even clean my 4S lawnmower air filter and give it an oil change once a year too, I like to do it all in winter so I am ready for summer fishing...
Good fishing trip nothing breaks, great trip catch fish.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Juan night only Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2015 at 6:37pm
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You can also get this type which is not much bigger than your average smartphone. Has USB port for charging phones and will easily crank over several V8 engines over the day plus a lot more. A lot of car yards have switched to these due to the convenient size.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Ohsoslow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2015 at 7:03pm
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Personally I would just run a dual battery set up, simple and relatively cheap seeing you already have the battery.. Isolator switch $40, battery box $20, terminals and lugs $20, then depending on battery placement in relation to your existing one, cable $10-50..

But if you don't have a heap of electronics, stereo,go out overnight, anchor winch etc.. Then maybe the lil jump pack would work fine.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Olfart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2015 at 7:29pm
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Originally posted by Juan night only Juan night only wrote:

You can also get this type which is not much bigger than your average smartphone. Has USB port for charging phones and will easily crank over several V8 engines over the day plus a lot more. A lot of car yards have switched to these due to the convenient size.

I bought one similar a while ago.  I opened up my pack this morning to check its' charge after not looking at it for a couple of months and it was still fully charged.  Lot to be said for Lithium -Ion batteries...

Semper in excreta sumus, solum profundum variat....



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote jackel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2015 at 8:26pm
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Where do you get those mini jump starters from, Supercheap or similar? 
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