Ideal battery voltage

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    Posted: 24 Nov 2014 at 8:33am
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Just noticed battery's in boat are about 8 yrs old which I know is old but everything seems to work fine , if I am on boat working and stereo etc is on have had them drop down to 11.4v but when charged they go back up to 13v is it don't them damage letting them drop down to far ? .
Also was thinking of putting a solar panel on roof to keep them topped up is this a simple operation as our system is a twin battery setup with the vcr or wot ever it's called switches etc.
Is it just a matter of wireing a panel to the battery's or does permanently having them changeing harm them ?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2014 at 9:22am
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We a small super cheap  panel we got maybe 15/20yrs ago for camping
A jumper battery unit runs  12vautomotive florencent trouble lights in the tent rooms... walking in turn on the switch on the pole
The panel plugged in and thrown on the tent roof ...
I now have velcro stuck to the top of the outboard and bottom of the panel
The battery box has a cig lighter unit mounted in the lid,,with rubber covers on the holes...
and fused inside the lid.. with a good length wire...direct to battery, by passes the main power switch.
So come home.. drop the solar unit on the velcro on top of the outboard, plug into the battery and it is  enough to maintain full battery charge over natural leakage etc.
The top of the outboard is because of location close to battery but still out of the way ... and the sun catches this part of the boat as it is stored under a huge sail /carport area.

Due to the number of panels in the small unit it cant over charge the battery, ie when charged the out put of the panel equals the output of the battery (bit simplified but u get the idea?) and when sun goes out the diode inside preventives any discharge

A huge secret to long term lead battery life is maintaining full charge and  full storage.
If have duel batteries and both just running sterio.and voltage drops down to 11.5    get them checked.....
With a little automotive jumper unit (which we use as spare jumper emergency battery also) running the floro cabin lights, sterio, sounder/gps , floro lights on the deck for night fishing...and not firing the engine up and dark.. solar panel not hooked up... from a full charged battery beginning of the evening to next morning it drops to just under 12V
This has far smaller storage than a normal, let alone heavier duty boat battery... let alone duel batteries...

Next morning .. after a coffee  turn on the main battery switch... pull the cig lighter from the jumper battery (which goes to the boat dash cig lighter)  fire the engine, pull the anchor, then plug the jumper battery back in to be recharged off the outboard.

Also one should be for running aux stuff.. stereo , sounders, off one battery,  and the other battery for motor starter...not both run both....
And like with the jumper battery, fire the engine on the engine battery, give 5 mins or so... then switch both batteries on for charging
In a thread a while back, it is apparent that outboards only have small capacity alternators, 20/ 25 amps or something.....the chev has 105 amps and stock had 64 amp  as a comparison
Let the engine battery recover , then connect the over night battery (both together is fine as they should be wired in parrell.



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Olfart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2014 at 9:33am
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If you are going to permanently wire in a solar panel to charge your batteries/keep them topped up you should include a solar voltage regulator (if your panel does not have one included in its' internals) especially if your panel has a high output.

On my boat I just wired up a ciggie socket direct to the batteries (bypassing the battery control switch) so I can plug in a solar panel while the boat is at home under a cover and this keeps things topped up.  The boat tends to sit for a fortnight or so between uses so connecting a solar panel to the batteries is an easy way to look after things.  I made an extension cable from the ciggie socket to another socket which hangs over the side of the boat and as this can then be accessed while the boat cover is on, I plug my panel into that probably a couple of times a week at the most and unplug the unit if there is rain or no more daylight...
I have thought of waterproofing my panel so I don't have to worry about leaving it outside when it rains - will be one of those jobs to do when I get a 'round tuit'. 
Semper in excreta sumus, solum profundum variat....



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote the angler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2014 at 1:16pm
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Ok solar panel sounds like the go then , when I say running stereo etc I should add that includes a 1000w amp for the 12 inch sub and the fridge for the ice cold steinys.
And that's only running off the house battery the start battery runs at about 13.4 v.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote of2fsh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2014 at 4:11pm
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Originally posted by the angler the angler wrote:

Ok solar panel sounds like the go then , when I say running stereo etc I should add that includes a 1000w amp for the 12 inch sub and the fridge for the ice cold steinys.
And that's only running off the house battery the start battery runs at about 13.4 v.


Stop being cheap and buy new batteries hahaha






Have you thought about those c tec chargers as well to keep batteries in top notch condition ?
2009 and 2010 BERKLEY SOFTBAIT COMP CHAMPS,Runner up 2013 ( solo),winner 2013/14 longest kingfish nz fishing competition
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote Don18025 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2014 at 5:29pm
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8 years is a really good life for your batteries. 
I got 7 years for the start battery and 8 for the house on my boat.
Angler I would be budgeting about the end of this summer for replacements. 
Do let us know if you require a jumpstart or tow from Coastguard!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Catchelot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2014 at 6:20pm
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Bloody tight arse what they all say aboveLOL

Yes if you use solar ensure a proper volt reg is fitted to keep the float level around 14.25V.
But good solar panels cost a bit where as an over night charge once per month is sufficient to keep the batteries topped up.

But mate 8 years to me is a very good result, even my cars where the battery is charged daily and never discharged have never lived much past 4-5yrs.
"The sea, once it casts its spell, holds one in its net of wonder forever." - Jacques Cousteau
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote the angler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2014 at 6:26pm
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Yep it is a good run from batteries , but they are working fine for now the start batt sits at about 13v and the house about 12.7 after a charge, installing a couple of 13$ digital voltmeters from jay car was a good idea I will keep a close eye on em.
What can I expect a couple of deep cell 700cc batts to set me back ? Don't really want to cash in my free tow from the coastguard.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Don18025 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2014 at 8:01pm
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Angler, deep cycle batteries are measured differently from start batteries. 
A start battery uses Cranking amps as the measure so is 700 cca is about right for your engine?
Deep cycle batteries use amp hours. 
I have diesel in my launch, and I purchased a 730cca for the start battery - cost was $225 and 130 AH Deep cycle battery which from memory was about $480......Both 12 volt flooded batteries. Could have spent more on the AGL and other fancy types.
I am like you run my boats safety programme to not hassle the Coastguard with a tow....
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote the angler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2014 at 8:11pm
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Ok that's good didn't know that I only looked at one of them will have to check the other.
Engine is a Volvo ad41 that starts first crank.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Wind Up Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2014 at 9:28am
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Angler,I'd replace your battery and buy one of the self contained solar units from Jaycar etc. They have a built in regulator and will trickle charge nicely. I'm unsure whether they have enough grunt to engage/disengage the VCR so you'll need to check.
I have a 120w & 130AH DC Battery for camping and this powers lights,music,inverter and the inevitable "friends" cellphone chargers.
I have just installed 2 x 200W and 2 x 130AH batteries in the horse float and now run an inverter 145ltr deep freeze,lights, aux socket and pump for gas califont no problem. 
As solar has become some much more efficient you'd have to consider whether to run a genset or a large bank of panels on your roof unless you are using a heap of power.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Rob Optimist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2014 at 4:37pm
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Replace them, I've always had a policy of putting new batteries in my boats every three to four years then moving them down to something land based. Never had a trickle charger or anything and touchwood never a flat battery.
               "attitude is everything"
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MacSkipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2014 at 5:13pm
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Rob Optimist X2 - likewise - I change battery every 3 or 4 years and pass old one onto a mate with a tractor - he is happy.
Good fishing trip nothing breaks, great trip catch fish.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote the angler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2014 at 8:25pm
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Hey never thought of that the battery in the tractor is only a couple of years old could do the old swaparoony.
House battery goes back down to 12.4 after a few days.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MacSkipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2014 at 8:47pm
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Check the battery rating in tractor (CCA) should be similar or bigger to boat battery - might cause issues if battery too small - eye ball terminals first to make sure you can swap there are 2 different battery terminal sizes that I know of.
If you swap and monitor will tell you if issue is battery or not.
Good fishing trip nothing breaks, great trip catch fish.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote SNOWKIWI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2014 at 9:56pm
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The worse thing that you can do to a battery, is keep it fully charged all the time. A battery is sort of like a human being, keeping it fully charged equates to keeping it fed all the time, and like a human being, the battery will get fat, wont like to do long continuous work, and will require charging again after a short time, without having given 100% of its potential to do work. Work it hard, without overtiring it, recharging it only to the level that it needs to recouperate, then working it hard again, will give a battery a long and productive life without allowing it to become so tired that it gives up.
 
Think about it before you shoot me down!!!
It is to be observed that 'angling' is the name given to fishing, by people who can't fish.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote SaltyC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2014 at 1:59pm
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Couldn't be more wrong actually Snowkiwi!

There are three things that contribute most to shortening the life of a battery:

1. Discharging too deeply (for a deep cycle battery below approx 50% of capacity)

2. Not recharging fully between each discharge cycle

3. Storing for any lengthy period below full charge.

The last two contribute to sulfation in flooded batteries which dramatically reduces their life.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2014 at 2:40pm
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Sry .. a lead acid battery.. note lead acid  NEEDS to be kept fully charged ALL the time... which is why when u buy one it is ready to go, and why lead acid are used for back up emergency supply in phone exchanges, why used in burgler alarm and fire alarm and CCTV back up power supplies, used in vehicles.... AND boats
They DO NOT like being discharges and re charged.. this causes suphrication....
They also do not like being over charged
And keeping a lead acid on a trickler charger, or a charger or a trickle solar panel that has the correct out put is a good idea
A correct trickle charge regales of the power source... once the voltage (think as if pressure in a water pipe) equals the voltage (pressure) of the lead acid battery , no more current runs.
A little over simplified, without going into internal plate/ cell resistance etc

Then we add into the equation , which has been mentioned above.. the amount and how the draw off depends if the battery is deep cycle or starter.....one is designed internally for massive sudden power draws, often for 1st few ms of well over 1000 amps.. ie firing high compression engines... so much so starter circuits have special designs because of huge voltage drops to spark plugs
And other for lower long term draw off .. but only down to limited levels.

Also of note: if one has a good charger, the chances are once the battery gets below a certain level, usually around 10.5V .. it will not charge the battery....because it then recognises that battery as faulty.
To get around this, one places another charge battery in parrell to the low charged, then start charging....after a few minutes one can disconnect the charged units as the charge voltage is enough to maintain the circuit charge
But if disconnect , after a few minutes the low battery voltage will drop again, and will need the fully charged unit again

A 'dud battery may charge up fine, even store that voltage fine, oftwen for weeks... but the amount of enrgy that battery is able to store can be greatly deminished... which means it goes flat rather quickly
Which brings us back to the original post/ theme of the thread
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote SaltyC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2014 at 3:45pm
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Angler this chart may help, but basically you do not want your battery down at 11.4 volts! It is pretty much dead although I suspect the 11.4 Volts you are quoting is under load not open circuit.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote the angler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2014 at 7:35am
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Thanks for the input and info guys , new battery and solar trickle charger on the to buy list.
Cheers
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