New house Values = New Boat?

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Originally posted by Penty Penty wrote:

Originally posted by Spectrum Spectrum wrote:


Yep i think this will happen in nz and it could make a lot of baby boomers rethink there retirement plans. This will tick some off but in my eyes we need a market correction because if we don't it will completely enslave the entire population in there 20-30s to an over prices mortgage for the rest of there lives, all so baby boomers can go on retirement cruises and live the high life. 
LOL


Spectrum there is a term for this it is called 'inter-generational theft" becoming a very real issue in NZ...

or, maybe because they worked for it, saved and went without.
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Enquiring at the moment about topping up my mortgage to pay for the reroof of my house. Only looking at borrowing around $7k, but when you use the bank's calculators to see how much you're actually paying in the long run, it's a bit of a ***** really. 

I certainly won't be topping up just to buy a new car or boat because Auckland Council tell me my house is now worth $110k more than it was last year. A family member's house CV has gone from $550,000 to $980,000. They're appealing as you can imagine.
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Originally posted by pompey pompey wrote:

Originally posted by Penty Penty wrote:

Originally posted by Spectrum Spectrum wrote:


Yep i think this will happen in nz and it could make a lot of baby boomers rethink there retirement plans. This will tick some off but in my eyes we need a market correction because if we don't it will completely enslave the entire population in there 20-30s to an over prices mortgage for the rest of there lives, all so baby boomers can go on retirement cruises and live the high life. 
LOL


Spectrum there is a term for this it is called 'inter-generational theft" becoming a very real issue in NZ...

or, maybe because they worked for it, saved and went without.


Yeah those free student loans, inflationary wage pressure and hyper inflation property house prices were all saved for...
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Lot of my friends had nil to there name 15 years ago, but we all fished a lot more, and had a lot less stress.
Now most of them are making the banks richer, and finding it tougher fishing less, but look great on paper.

I was lucky, and bought at the right time, but purchased two houses on one site, it was more a business decision rather than a get rich quick,  could of cut it in two, but decided that with rates etc, I would just sit on these two live in one, and have no mortgage.

Just lucky really.




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Originally posted by Penty Penty wrote:

Originally posted by Spectrum Spectrum wrote:


Yep i think this will happen in nz and it could make a lot of baby boomers rethink there retirement plans. This will tick some off but in my eyes we need a market correction because if we don't it will completely enslave the entire population in there 20-30s to an over prices mortgage for the rest of there lives, all so baby boomers can go on retirement cruises and live the high life. 
LOL


Spectrum there is a term for this it is called 'inter-generational theft" becoming a very real issue in NZ...


Yep if one is of a younger generation , no doubt that point of view could be understood.
But consider this....parents back then could not afford to help us into our 1st homes... so we worked long hrs, scraped together enough.. and back then brought something with no dishwasher, not garage , no paths, no gardens ... hell no bloody lawn.. no curtains and use sheets, and for a couch old banna boxes
It was only when our parents died...usually when we our children where at school or later, and THEN we would get a little inheritance... considering it was divided more as they had more children back then.
Basically it was hard work long hrs and had different priorities, like a home instead of a fancy car or phone BS
And a little note to that, our son, dropped out of school...eventually got his head together.. and by the time he was about 23 owned his own home , married and a family...
How ? well no bloody handouts that for sure... he commuted to Aussie and back.. 6 weeks on 6 days a week, 12 to 18 hrs a day.. back for a week with his family off again... and his wife also on the same page as him...
Then another stint in Fiji, 3 months on remote mountains in the jungle in the Solmans and again in PNG.
Funny not much different to me .. parants dead, grand parent dead.. nothing to my name... worked hard long hrs and by the time 22 brought my 1st home...nearly 50 yrs ago...
If u REALLY want something...stop blaming others and circumstances... being a looser... get of your butt and do what u have to to get it...and sacrifice what u need to also.
OH yeah thats right, thats what the baby boomers did... well those who have their homes, boats cars etc... a lot havnt.

"inter-generational theft"
Thats when there is a generation who expects things given to them on platter form those before them... who think inheritance is a right....who think as 'mature' grown up adults over 21 they have the right to expect handouts...and their parents should not be allowed to enjoy the returns of a lifetime of hard work....... thats the real theft.
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I hear that no one is planning to cash in by selling out in Auckland and buying a cheaper residence say in Huntly (Cambell Live recently). My kids have made the move, south to Hamilton and New Plymouth and I believe that they are a lot better of, than if they had stayed in Auckland. 
Got good paying jobs and a lot cheaper houses!
Just remember if you cash in the increased value of your property and use it for a new boat, when the world finances turns to custard, boats will be cheap and Trade Me will have lots for sale.....
And I agree that there will be a further financial implosion, not sure when. 
Cameron PM of the UK has already made a public warning of further global money problems to come.
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Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:

Originally posted by Penty Penty wrote:

Originally posted by Spectrum Spectrum wrote:


Yep i think this will happen in nz and it could make a lot of baby boomers rethink there retirement plans. This will tick some off but in my eyes we need a market correction because if we don't it will completely enslave the entire population in there 20-30s to an over prices mortgage for the rest of there lives, all so baby boomers can go on retirement cruises and live the high life. 
LOL


Spectrum there is a term for this it is called 'inter-generational theft" becoming a very real issue in NZ...


Yep if one is of a younger generation , no doubt that point of view could be understood.
But consider this....parents back then could not afford to help us into our 1st homes... so we worked long hrs, scraped together enough.. and back then brought something with no dishwasher, not garage , no paths, no gardens ... hell no bloody lawn.. no curtains and use sheets, and for a couch old banna boxes
It was only when our parents died...usually when we our children where at school or later, and THEN we would get a little inheritance... considering it was divided more as they had more children back then.
Basically it was hard work long hrs and had different priorities, like a home instead of a fancy car or phone BS
And a little note to that, our son, dropped out of school...eventually got his head together.. and by the time he was about 23 owned his own home , married and a family...
How ? well no bloody handouts that for sure... he commuted to Aussie and back.. 6 weeks on 6 days a week, 12 to 18 hrs a day.. back for a week with his family off again... and his wife also on the same page as him...
Then another stint in Fiji, 3 months on remote mountains in the jungle in the Solmans and again in PNG.
Funny not much different to me .. parants dead, grand parent dead.. nothing to my name... worked hard long hrs and by the time 22 brought my 1st home...nearly 50 yrs ago...
If u REALLY want something...stop blaming others and circumstances... being a looser... get of your butt and do what u have to to get it...and sacrifice what u need to also.
OH yeah thats right, thats what the baby boomers did... well those who have their homes, boats cars etc... a lot havnt.

"inter-generational theft"
Thats when there is a generation who expects things given to them on platter form those before them... who think inheritance is a right....who think as 'mature' grown up adults over 21 they have the right to expect handouts...and their parents should not be allowed to enjoy the returns of a lifetime of hard work....... thats the real theft.

What a load of crap! how could you say a property investor works hard? some would not even see there houses after owning them for ten years. Then sell them for triple the price where is the hard work in that ?

What a typical response from someone of your vintage saying we want every thing for nothing and don't know what hard work is. Take a step back and do the math, what did you pay for your first house and what was your hourly rate compare that tho the average young persons wage and cost of living these days and you will see a huge difference. 

I know what hard work is and going without, 80hr weeks hanging of a 9inch grinder for most of the day when its 45 degrees in the shade for 4 week straight no days off. I don't expect anything for nothing and could/would happily buy a house if it was not at an extortionate price only to pay for some speculators luxury curses and extravagant lifestyle in there twilight years.  

So tell me this how is speculating on property hard work and what good does it do for nz as a whole.

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You want an example?  I worked two jobs full time - the first for 40 hours per week was my "day job" and I also put in 80 hours per week including all weekends doing commercial cleaning, just to scrape the deposit together to buy my first house.  I did this for three years solid and the only breaks I took were a few of the statutory days over Xmas/New Year.  Some of the cr*p I had to clean up after factory workers would make you spew, but I did this work so I could provide a reasonable home for my wife and child plus the second child which was on the way. 
Looking back I cannot believe how much we sacrificed to achieve our goal but I do not regret it for one instant.  That is what we did in those days and you had to do this or you would never get your foot on the real estate ladder.  So three years of struggle and I had a deposit for a house which led to - for those days - a hefty mortgage.
Was this relevant to todays' financial climate?  I would say so......
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If you're under 30 and already got a mortgage then theres no harm in borrowing on your new found equity especially if you purchased your home recently and before the new valuations. In saying that the only thing you would need to consider is the servicability of the mortgage and can you still live comfortably.

 
I purchased a property and a boat in the last year. I am no rich kid and the boat was less than 10k. Start small and build your way up!
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Originally posted by Olfart Olfart wrote:

You want an example?  I worked two jobs full time - the first for 40 hours per week was my "day job" and I also put in 80 hours per week including all weekends doing commercial cleaning, just to scrape the deposit together to buy my first house.  I did this for three years solid and the only breaks I took were a few of the statutory days over Xmas/New Year.  Some of the cr*p I had to clean up after factory workers would make you spew, but I did this work so I could provide a reasonable home for my wife and child plus the second child which was on the way. 
Looking back I cannot believe how much we sacrificed to achieve our goal but I do not regret it for one instant.  That is what we did in those days and you had to do this or you would never get your foot on the real estate ladder.  So three years of struggle and I had a deposit for a house which led to - for those days - a hefty mortgage.
Was this relevant to todays' financial climate?  I would say so......


Spectrum. The property owner had to start somewhere.
I got married 43 years ago. We bought our first house for $8750 and had 2 mortgages on it. I was earning $14.00 a week. That's $728 a year. I had to save $2000 as a deposit. Do the maths ~ that's a bigger percentage than what kids are being asked for now.
At $728 a year, it would take me 12 years to "earn" the cost of my house.
Lets say you earn $40,000 today. Times 12 years = $480,000
You can still buy a house in Auckland for $480,000. You can buy mansions elsewhere in NZ for this.
Half the problem is that people expect to be able to buy / afford houses in established areas.
My $8750 house was in "nappy valley" ~ miles from any established services. No footpaths, no driveway, no lawns. Mates came around and poured concrete, painted and generally finished off my house.
Now ~ 43 years later ~ I have WORKED my way up to be able to afford another 2 houses. It has been done by my own blood sweat and tears.

I don't things have changed too much. It is just the fact that so many people seem to be wanting things NOW and wanting the best of everything in the best of areas.
We seem to be in an "I want" & "I am entitled" to society.
The same society that says certain people have RIGHTS to certain things. Rights should be earned, not an entitlement

Sorry ~ rant over
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Originally posted by Spectrum Spectrum wrote:

[QUOTE=Steps][QUOTE=Penty][QUOTE=Spectrum]



What a load of crap! how could you say a property investor works hard? some would not even see there houses after owning them for ten years. Then sell them for triple the price where is the hard work in that ?

What a typical response from someone of your vintage saying we want every thing for nothing and don't know what hard work is. Take a step back and do the math, what did you pay for your first house and what was your hourly rate compare that tho the average young persons wage and cost of living these days and you will see a huge difference. 

I know what hard work is and going without, 80hr weeks hanging of a 9inch grinder for most of the day when its 45 degrees in the shade for 4 week straight no days off. I don't expect anything for nothing and could/would happily buy a house if it was not at an extortionate price only to pay for some speculators luxury curses and extravagant lifestyle in there twilight years.  

So tell me this how is speculating on property hard work and what good does it do for nz as a whole.



u want to know what is a load of crap.. PPl who say
"how could you say a property investor works hard?"
When I NEVER EVEN mentioned Property investor
But lets just go down this route since u have brought it up as an excuse.
And lets just look at real stats here...
yep easy to point the finger at a property investor when one hasnt a clue how it works
A property investor poicks up a run down house at a fair  current market price
The then work their butts of similar to those on the block, not as much , similar, ripping kitchen , carpets , etc out.
Then spend between 30 and 60 +K  new kitchen bathrooms landscaping , fences etc.
Then flick it on... so, at the end of the day after GST tax etc they make around 10 to 15K
And to make a 'living' out of making crappy uninhabitable houses in to nice homes they have to turn over 10 or 12 houses a yr  from a base risk  investment of around 400 to 500K

BUT the stats indicate the house my have sold for say 380K 6 months ago and its now sold for  460K
Now if u brought a run down boat, and spent a lot of time and money bringing it back into a tidy usable state and re sold it on... in your books u are responsible for over priced boats right.. u are a speculator right , by your own definition

So if the specuators are not going to make house habitiable again... what would the end result be?  oh yeah huge slums....Housungf corp upgrade and maintain their stock... for that reason... so who is going to maintain the private home stock?  the tax payer?... or doesnt it happen by magic?

And gess what baby boomers 1st homes where run down houses, or  mass produced boxes with no paths , basic fibro plank mass produced  90 sq m box
Oh and the generation before... damn they struggled with a world war
And those before.. oh yeah the soup kitchen line in the depression
And the generation before... another world war

And the younger  "now" generation.. everything on tick , fancy car, partying, credit cards maxed,  fancy pads, TVs, smart phones... on tick
Except for those few who have old school attitudes, dont make excuses and just get on with what they have to do to get what they want, with out excuses.
OH yeah we had the same sort of ppl back in our day to...
How many rem "I dont work over time because they tax us too much....."
Which left the rest of us working heaps of overtime, paying the ave gross weekly wage in tax... and the proportional increase in the take home pay to..
If we too had sat back on the ave wage we too would not have got our homes either

And thank heavens for those who complain.. they dont are not prepared to work the hard jobs , long hrs, fruggle with spending... if they did not exist THEN there would not be enough to go around  for those who are serious about their goals...
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Originally posted by Steps Steps wrote:

Originally posted by Spectrum Spectrum wrote:

[QUOTE=Steps][QUOTE=Penty][QUOTE=Spectrum]



What a load of crap! how could you say a property investor works hard? some would not even see there houses after owning them for ten years. Then sell them for triple the price where is the hard work in that ?

What a typical response from someone of your vintage saying we want every thing for nothing and don't know what hard work is. Take a step back and do the math, what did you pay for your first house and what was your hourly rate compare that tho the average young persons wage and cost of living these days and you will see a huge difference. 

I know what hard work is and going without, 80hr weeks hanging of a 9inch grinder for most of the day when its 45 degrees in the shade for 4 week straight no days off. I don't expect anything for nothing and could/would happily buy a house if it was not at an extortionate price only to pay for some speculators luxury curses and extravagant lifestyle in there twilight years.  

So tell me this how is speculating on property hard work and what good does it do for nz as a whole.



u want to know what is a load of crap.. PPl who say
"how could you say a property investor works hard?"
When I NEVER EVEN mentioned Property investor
But lets just go down this route since u have brought it up as an excuse.
And lets just look at real stats here...
yep easy to point the finger at a property investor when one hasnt a clue how it works
A property investor poicks up a run down house at a fair  current market price
The then work their butts of similar to those on the block, not as much , similar, ripping kitchen , carpets , etc out.
Then spend between 30 and 60 +K  new kitchen bathrooms landscaping , fences etc.
Then flick it on... so, at the end of the day after GST tax etc they make around 10 to 15K
And to make a 'living' out of making crappy uninhabitable houses in to nice homes they have to turn over 10 or 12 houses a yr  from a base risk  investment of around 400 to 500K

BUT the stats indicate the house my have sold for say 380K 6 months ago and its now sold for  460K
Now if u brought a run down boat, and spent a lot of time and money bringing it back into a tidy usable state and re sold it on... in your books u are responsible for over priced boats right.. u are a speculator right , by your own definition

So if the specuators are not going to make house habitiable again... what would the end result be?  oh yeah huge slums....Housungf corp upgrade and maintain their stock... for that reason... so who is going to maintain the private home stock?  the tax payer?... or doesnt it happen by magic?

And gess what baby boomers 1st homes where run down houses, or  mass produced boxes with no paths , basic fibro plank mass produced  90 sq m box
Oh and the generation before... damn they struggled with a world war
And those before.. oh yeah the soup kitchen line in the depression
And the generation before... another world war

And the younger  "now" generation.. everything on tick , fancy car, partying, credit cards maxed,  fancy pads, TVs, smart phones... on tick
Except for those few who have old school attitudes, dont make excuses and just get on with what they have to do to get what they want, with out excuses.
OH yeah we had the same sort of ppl back in our day to...
How many rem "I dont work over time because they tax us too much....."
Which left the rest of us working heaps of overtime, paying the ave gross weekly wage in tax... and the proportional increase in the take home pay to..
If we too had sat back on the ave wage we too would not have got our homes either

And thank heavens for those who complain.. they dont are not prepared to work the hard jobs , long hrs, fruggle with spending... if they did not exist THEN there would not be enough to go around  for those who are serious about their goals...

your referring to a property renovator not a speculator, which are two very different things.

A speculator is some one who buys a house and rents it out spending as little as possible on it then after owning it for a given period sells it for a work free, tax free profit. Some never even sell there properties and simply refinancing on there increased equity. Then they buy more and more properties taking properties out of the market decreasing supply in turn pushing up prices. very simple really. 

A property renovator is some one who does WORK to a property and adds value to the property then sells it all going well for a profit. The key word there is work, they do work on the property not just sit on there hands for ten years. Now your are upto speed with the meaning of a property speculator reread what i have written 

 



 
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If the government brings back the Boat tax overnight and puts interest rates up to 18% then you might have a small taste of what the so called bludging baby boomers had to endure. 
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Property business people fit into categories. The first are property investors. They buy properties with the intention of renting them. Usually this requires a fair amount of work, speaking from experience. To attract decent tenants, I have always presented properties in really good condition, inside and out. Usually after tenants leave there is redecorating and maintenance. Just fair where and tear if I'm lucky. I am running a business doing this even if it is only one house, that is the same for all investore otherwise you will loose lots of dough.

The other category are developers. Some develop raw land and sell individual titled lots upon completion. Some buy do ups and on sell. Others , cut off rear sections etc, and build. They turn over their properties. The property investor holds properties. Some investors choose to lverage off equity to acquire more property. In a rising market this can be a good strategy, however, if a correction occurs, these investors are in a tight spot.

I don't go along with the myth of property investors gobbling up most properties and sending prices through the roof. That is nonsense, there are many factors more heavily weighted which impact on house prices ( Auckland ).  The reality is that if you have worked hard and have money to invest, housing is and has always been the preferred option for Kiwi's. Not many understand the intricacies of the stock market, there are big profits there too if you want to learn. The likes of Blue Chip wiped out 100's of millions of retirement income as did finance companies. Bank deposits never keep up with inflation.

So, if you want to be financially independent, property investing has been a proven way of doing it for decades. Nothing much has changed. If investors left the market, prices may fall in some locations but there would be a rental shortage and increased rents would bring back investors. 

As for tax. Investors are liable for tax on house profits if they have a pattern of selling, turning them over. Otherwise, the capital gain i9s tax free. However, it is not always as good as it seems once you subtract the capital expenditure on most properties owned for say ten years.


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yep that would sort out all the speculators too

edit :that was directed at corokid. do you know why interest rates went so high? it was the aftermath of a housing bubble that the government choose to inflate away rather than let crash
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There is very simple reason houses are so expensive in Auckland - demand;supply.  It doesn't matter if who owns however many houses.  It's a matter of limited housing stock for rental or purchase in a growing city.  It's unlikely to change any-time soon - unless a whole heap more houses become available, or migration (international and domestic) into Auckland eases substantially.

You would think at the very least the price signal would start to deter domestic migration to Auckland.
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You would think at the very least the price signal would start to deter domestic migration to Auckland.

yeah sort of.. it is my understanding new immigrants came to NZ and initially where housed at mangere.. then once orientation was establish then HAD to reside in cities and towns all round NZ.
There where several reasons for this including took the employment and housing pressures off towns and cities.. spreading around the country... also tended to integrate them into the kiwi life rather than establishing 'mini foreign counties'
A system that has worked well in NZ and other parts of the world for hundreds of yrs... till the PC BS new age wet behind the ears 'experts ' think different.. and the concept of finding out why things where that way was/ is beyond them
And it is of note these wet behind the ear 'experts' are not baby boomers....

We bought our first house for $8750 and had 2 mortgages on it. I was earning $14.00 a week

hell that must have been out in the whop whops
Our bare land, no paths , curtains garage, lawns , gardens , fences was $24,024
Cant rem the deposit, but we lived on mince, sausages, and spuds till the veggie garden started to produce around 4 to 6 months later.
From memory was on about $22/ week.. cant rem if was before or after tax.

As my grand mother use to say... "If u want something, u will get it....If u dont get it , u didnt REALLY want it, and have wasted your time and my time just talking about it"

But hey these Old school saying that have been around for hundreds , thousands of yrs... mean squat ....because this is the 21 st century we are PC , and what was not broke , needed fixing  right?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote SaltyC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2014 at 3:31pm
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Titanium
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Steps, the Mangere facility is a refugee centre and is not used for migrants generally who just come in and go wherever.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pompey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2014 at 3:46pm
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Originally posted by SaltyC SaltyC wrote:

Steps, the Mangere facility is a refugee centre and is not used for migrants generally who just come in and go wherever.

That's right Salty. It is a refugee centre. After the orientation period it is straight into a HNZ house, top of the list. At least that is what it was a couple of years back, I doubt we have made refugees join the list behind Nzer's.
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