Oil too lean, advice needed!

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    Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 10:30am
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Hi guys,
I've just purchased my first 16 foot fiberglass boat with a 2010 40hp sail motor.
Due to my terrible maths skills and bit too much boyish excitement I've run the oil too lean- as in 200mls to 20 litres of fuel!
Obviously the motor stopped and wouldn't go again...
The head looks like it's had a fire in it but there's still full compression in both cylinders.
Do I really need to throw away the motor and get a new one?
Anyone got any ideas what my options are? If it's fixable I'd obviously rather do that than throw money away!

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 11:30am
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To do a compression test I guess you are saying that it now turns over but won't start? Have you checked for spark and fuel? If it stopped on it's own accord whilst running without enough oil you would assume that it has seized. Question is how much damage has it done, and is it to the bearings or cylinders/rings/pistons etc. If it turns over with good compression's, the first thing would to be get it running and see what horrible noises it is or isn't making. If Sail is another Yamaha copy the parts for a rebuild aren't that expensive if sourced offshore.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote flyfisher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 11:52am
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Yip, assuming it's 50:1 you needed 400mls, but whilst that's lean, I'm surprised it cooked the motor as in theory at 100:1 it should have been 'ok' still - that is what many Yammie 2-strokes run which the Sail is based on?..

You sure there was not a blockage of cooling that caused this - run it out of the water at all, flushed with hose on mufs etc?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tryps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 12:19pm
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For te compression test I used a compression tester(brand new and borrowed from a car-building mate), it had between 6-7 bars which is what the manual said it should have.

The motor ran fine before I put it in the water, when I hooked the muffs up and the pisser was doing it's job.

Yup, it turns over but won't fire and is a bit harder to pull than it was before with the spark plugs in.

I was assuming that the pistons and rings are ok because there's compression but I really won't know until I pull it apart I guess.

Thanks for the replies!

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tryps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 12:29pm
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If I am lucky enough for the pistons to be ok, how big of a job is replacing the bearings and what damage might have I incurred?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 12:50pm
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If it has compression and will turn over it should start. Before rebuilding it you should get it running and see what it sounds like. Doing a rebuild on the engine is reasonably simple if you have some engine experience. Allow about $500 for parts, but could be a bit less.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote sappercatcha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 1:54pm
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I once ran my old 1999 usa made 25hp murc for of 15km at full tit before realising I forgot the oil so I was running on strait petrol lucky I had the oil in the front of the boat that thing is still going strong 3 or 4 years later with no ill effects
so I find it very hard to believe that running a motor a bit light for a wee bit would completely **** it have you tried cleaning the plugs dip them in petrol (just the tips) then light it put the back in once the flame has gone out and try it again
keep up the good work boys
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 3:40pm
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Like others I do think you are jumping to strip down conclusions a little early..
If u have compression, fuel and spark, a engine will fire.
Pull a plug, turn over with thumb over the hole... and while there use a torch and have a look inside as the engine turns over
Connect a plug to a spark plug HT lead, ground the plug case and see if have spark
If have a spark
Then maybe a quick squirt of ether (engine start) into a pot before putting the plugs back and a squirt under the air filter....

Im sort of thinking u have another issue here like no spark or fuel blockage issue
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote pjc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 4:10pm
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how long did you run the motor?was the motor running ok?how,when did it stop?you stopped it or it stopped itself?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MacSkipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 6:33pm
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Interesting - can you post a picture of the head (outside)? Would not expect 100 to 1 to kill it. Sounds like something else.
If you are not mechanically minded or cannot figure it out take into a shop and tell them it is not running and what happened and ask them to check out for you - put a time limit on investigation and see what they say?
As guys say no spark or fuel most likely. If you remove plug from head hook up and ground (touch plug to bare metal on motor) and pull over should see a nice blue spark - don't hold plug as a zap is painful! Engine start is really good stuff - if a fuel problem will fire after squirting in carbs but not run. Cheers
Good fishing trip nothing breaks, great trip catch fish.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tryps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2014 at 8:03am
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After all your helpful advice I cleaned out the plugs and it lept into life!
I'm reasonably mechanicly minded but have no experience with outboards(yet!).
If I absolutely have to I'll take things to a mechanic but usually between my friends and I we can sort most problems.

It ran for maybe 20 minutes on the water before it died and wouldn't go again.
It doesn't sound like I've done anything too sinister to it but am getting it looked over this weekend just in case.
I'll try to post a pic of the head tonight for you.

Thanks a lot guys, I was packing myself that I'd screwed it the last couple days and after all your help I'm now a much happier person!

Hugely appreciated!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Steps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2014 at 8:20am
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Good stuff.. out of interest , how old is the fuel?
and have u checked / cleaned the plugs tried again?
Thu to me it sounds like maybe a faulty coil or ign module getting hot/ faulty.

The fuel, spark, compression, I have fired up engines with bores so stuffed the engine meant to have around 140lb cranking pressure and only had 17 to 23lb.. and the crank / gudgeons not much better
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tryps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2014 at 2:20pm
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The fuel an oil was brand new and the oil was marine grade, after a good clean out of the plugs got it going again.
I'm thinking there might be a problem with the thermostat as it should've shut off before it got that hot.
I'm getting a mechanic mate to go over it on Saturday so if there's anything underlying I'll find out then.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Unclejake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2014 at 11:26pm
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Do Sail motors even have a thermostat? The only way to make a cheaper motor is to use inferior materials and leave things out.

Perhaps you 'glazed' the plugs with excessive combustion chamber heat. If (when you were on the water) it got rapidly sluggish and then seized it would point to the pistons swelling up and nipping. Sometimes that's recoverable with only a slight loss of performance

I think you need to get it out on the water under load, not far from land, and with an onshore breeze, and then see how the motor sounds and performs before you do much else.

Good luck
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tryps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2014 at 2:04pm
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Thank mate I'll do that tomorrow arvo. That's exactly what happened to it when I was on the water!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MacSkipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2014 at 3:39pm
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Hey Tryps does motor have a tell tale (A water pump circulation indicator)? - look at it when first started at ramp and check again at idle once run under load and warm - should be similar. Normally the thermostat (if it has one) is designed to jam open if failed so motor is over cooled if thermostat fails (oily dirty spark plugs) as never gets up to proper operating temperature - should be able to rest hand on motor casing (with cowling removed) without getting burnt as water should cool engine - not like a car exhaust as water pump cools exhaust housing. Cheers
Good fishing trip nothing breaks, great trip catch fish.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tryps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2014 at 12:03pm
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Hi MacSkipper,
No it doesn't look like it does but I've had a mechanic mate look over it for a few beers and he's actually had a sail motor before and said they're actually pretty good! He told me straight away I need a new cooling kit as the impeller's stuffed and I need 3 new gaskets. Depending on parts arriva I shoul be able to fix it in a few hours(then get him to check what I've done lol). I'm glad I saw him before putting it in the water again!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MacSkipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2014 at 1:27pm
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Good to know what is happening - when you reassemble run on ear muffs or in deep container or at ramp on trailer and confirm water pump is circulating water - sounds like you want your mechanic mate around - when I ran my Johnson 25 and water pump impelller was stuffed you could feel engine casing on exhaust side (opposite carb side) getting real hot real quick - once water pump running it only got warm and there was a moist discharge/mist around where engine exhaust exits motor as well - it had no tell tale indicator too but it was a 1975 motor . Good Luck!
Good fishing trip nothing breaks, great trip catch fish.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Unclejake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2014 at 8:21pm
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It's quite possible that the lack of oil had nothing at all to do with your heat seize Tryps. Perhaps the impeller has been crook since you bought the boat. Pay careful attention to what the old one looks like when you go to replace it, and if it looks to be in similar condition to the new one you will need to look further for the problem

Good luck. 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote MikeAqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2014 at 11:15am
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Another problem area for cooling systems is the water cavities on the engine head.  These can accumulate salt crystals up or silt, impeding flow and preventing/impairing cooling.

On some engines, it's easy to open these up and clean them out.
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