Our world leading fisheries management

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Lethal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2014 at 6:15pm
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yes it is pathetic that MPI have chosen to allow the depletion of Kahawai for the pure fact that it keeps the Comm boats working during slow times...
that in itself is a disgrace to all Kiwis, just shows how bad the system really is...
if anything comes of this Fish Fight it will be the facts that are brought to light by having it put up in your face how our fish are being used to supplement a few for the lose of a fantastic fish we not only could enjoy watching boil the surface to foam but the food they bring up from the depth to feed our sea birds...

one day many years ago remember the smell in the air which was a huge flocks of sea birds gathering before i could even see them, those thousands of birds have since gone who relied upon the Kahawai for their food....
what a bloody shame that money comes before nature, i at least thought with all the insight in NZ we could do way better,
is it really time we have to stand and deliver??????
 
Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Lethal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2014 at 4:49pm
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to put this post of Tagits Back on Track,

Our world leading fisheries management


Tagit was saying,

Here is another bit of info extracted from one of the industry reports

Since 2005–06 orange roughy accounted for about 84% of the total observed catch
In the last 5 years (2007 to 2012) the orange roughy catch was greater than 96% of the retained catch (in the areas being observed)

So 16% of the catch was non-roughy, but only 4% of that (100%-96%) was landed. So 12% of the total catch is dumped at sea.

Assuming that this was true since the beginning of the QMS (it is probably much worse in reality), our world leading system for maximising the return from this limited resource has allowed the dumping of 45,000 tonnes of fish. In a world where fish is becoming a very scarce resource, doesn't this seem a bit stupid? And if you look at what those unwanted by-catch are, they say mostly Black and Smooth Oreo Dory. By the comms own assessment they are species with low or very low ability to recover form continual harvesting.

dumping of 45,000 tonnes of fish....
Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote meathunter72 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2014 at 8:33pm
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Lethal. This is why I got involved in the thread in the first place.  How did you come up with the figure of 45000 tonnes?. Who says this is Oreos?  Ive been on trips where the target species was oreos. So to say they are being discarded is plain wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2014 at 9:30pm
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MH72 - that was taken from an MPI (may have been industry) report from memory. The quotes are accurate, so the maths says that 12% of the catch was getting dumped. It didn't specifically say that they dumped Oreo, but did say that the majority of the bycatch was Oreo. So assuming they are only dumping bycatch, it is inferred in that report that they were dumping Oreo as well as other species. Didn't make sense to me when I read it as Oreo are a valuable species, but this is what the report suggested. The 45,000tonnes is 12% of the total Roughy catch since the QMS was introduced, so assuming that the 12% was reasonably constant, that is how much has been dumped. Add in the fact that the early fishing would have probably been less selective and account for unrecorded dumping etc and I guess the real figure will be way north of 50,000 tonnes.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2014 at 9:38pm
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Found the document again. Reading it again after MH72's comment, there might be more than one way to interpret the Oreo data given so hard to say whether they are really being dumped in bulk or not. How do you read it? 

Here is the direct quote and a link to the full article below. It is an industry report, not MPI.
http://deepwater.hosting.outwide.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/MRAG-2013-Pre-assessment-Report-of-four-New-Zealand-Orange-Roughy-Fisheries.pdf

Since 2005–06 orange roughy accounted for about 84% of the total observed catch across 
all orange roughy fisheries combined, including the 4 fisheries under assessment. Much of 
the remainder of the total catch (about 10%) comprised oreo species (Family 
Oreosomatidae): mainly smooth oreo (Pseudocyttus maculatus, 8%), and black oreo 
(Allocyttus niger, 2.1%). Rattails (various species, 0.8%) and shovelnose spiny dogfish 
(Deania calcea, 0.6%) were the species with high discard rates (90% discarded). Other fish 
species frequently caught and usually discarded included deepwater dogfishes (family 
Squalidae), especially Etmopterus species, the most common of which is likely to have been 
Baxter’s dogfish (E. baxteri), slickheads, and morid cods, especially Johnson’s cod 
(Halargyreus johnsonii) and ribaldo (Mora moro) (Ministry for Primary Industries 2012; 
Anderson 2011, 2013). In the last 5 years (2007 to 2012) the orange roughy catch in the four 
management areas being assessed (ORH MEC, ORH7A, ORH3B NWCR and ORH3B 
ESCR) was greater than 96% of the retained catch for all fisheries for all years except for 
2011-12 in the ORH3B NWCR management area where it was over 88% of the catch. In 
2011-12 in the ORH3B NWCR there was no target trawling for Orange Roughy. For these 
fisheries the non-orange roughy retained catch included black cardinal fish (Epigonus 
telescopus), hoki (Macruronus novaezelandiae), alfonsino (Beryx decadactylus), oreos, 
silver warehou (Seriolella punctata), black oreo, smooth oreo, hake (Merluccius australis)
and bluenose (Hyperoglyphe antarctica) (Irving 2013). There are significant differences in 
non-target catch of these species within each of the 4 fisheries under assessment.

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote meathunter72 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2014 at 9:53pm
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It doesnt seem right from my experience. 
Orange Roughy taken off hills (spawning aggregations) give very clean bags of pretty much just Orange Roughy. The early days of the fishery was based on fishing these sea mounts. Louisville, Chatham Rise etc. 
 You can catch them on the flats too using a bottom trawl, and this will give more bycatch, Oreos, deepwater sharks, rat tail.   Rats can get discarded but are equally likely to be mealed if the boat has a meal plant (which most of the Kiwi and all of the Ukranians have). Sharks will often have the livers taken and SHovel nosed dogs are often kept.  Sorry mate but those figures just dont make sense to me and I have been on these boats seeing with my own eyes. 

Do you have a link to the report?

The most wasteful fishery we have is the Scampi fishery. Half the catch or more might be dumped. However, you are only talking bags of 2-5 tonne.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote meathunter72 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2014 at 10:08pm
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Thanks for the link. I have just read it and I'm pretty sure you have misinterpreted the data. 

 Target fishing for orange roughy 
catches a relatively small amount of bycatch, with around 96 percent of the catch consisting 
of either orange roughy or other species managed under the Quota Management System 
(QMS), such as oreo (Family Oreosomatidae). 






Since 2005–06 orange roughy accounted for about 84% of the total observed catch across 
all orange roughy fisheries combined, including the 4 fisheries under assessment. Much of 
the remainder of the total catch (about 10%) comprised oreo species (Family 
Oreosomatidae): mainly smooth oreo (Pseudocyttus maculatus, 8%), and black oreo 
(Allocyttus niger, 2.1%). Rattails (various species, 0.8%) and shovelnose spiny dogfish 
(Deania calcea, 0.6%) were the species with high discard rates (90% discarded). Other fish 
species frequently caught and usually discarded included deepwater dogfishes (family 
Squalidae), especially Etmopterus species, the most common of which is likely to have been 
Baxter’s dogfish (E. baxteri), slickheads, and morid cods, especially Johnson’s cod 
(Halargyreus johnsonii) and ribaldo (Mora moro) (Ministry for Primary Industries 2012; 



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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2014 at 10:23pm
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I just read it again, and I think the interpretation is correct if the report itself is correct. It certainly says that Roughy are only 86% of the raw catch but make up 96% of the landed catch. That is saying that only 4% of the 16% bycatch is retained. The report does also say that 10% of the 16% bycatch is Oreo. What isn't so clear from how it is written is whether the Oreo are 10% of 16% (i.e. 1.6%) of the total catch or a straight 10% of the total catch. Maybe the report is incorrect?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote meathunter72 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2014 at 10:45pm
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There is always a discrepancy between observed trips and boats that no observers are present. 
No doubt about that. But I dont think the problem of discarding in that fishery is as bad as you might think, especially now. If its worth money they keep it.


The 86% refers to observed trips , the 96% to the total landed catch. I have seen bags that were 99.9% Roughy, so its a fishery with low bycatch. Unless they are towing on the flats. We dont know where the observed trips were but a few tows on the flats (which is where you get Oreos) would skew the data somewhat and inrease the level of bycatch.


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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote marlinmarty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2014 at 11:12pm
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Interesting thread
I just have one question?
If the fish are owned by kiwis are we getting good value for money from the way the legislation allows our resource to be utilised
Do we get a royalty or anything at all in the way of revenue from making this resource available for commercial operators to harvest

No taxes do not count as revenue
Every other natural resource in nz get levied including water and airwaves

Why not fisheries !
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Tagit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2014 at 10:24am
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My understanding (which may be incorrect) from what I have been able to research so far is that we get no royalty from fisheries where the TACC has been allocated. The Government does own some TACC which they may lease out as ACE, but I haven't found any details around that yet. The website where that may be available is a trading site set up for commercial fishers and the reports are only available at $X per report or on a subscription basis (I think). Most of the valuable TACC is owned by the fishing companies or private individuals so I don't expect that the government income from their TACC would be that substantial. 
The other revenue is from where the sell TACC by tender for any new species they introduce. As I understand it we get the sale price and no further revenue after that. This is basically a public asset sale (like the power companies etc) that the government has been performing for years but never get's mentioned. Given the negative feedback about the other asset sales you can see why the givernment wouldn't want it discussed to publicly.  The total 'asset' sale of our fisheries is possibly nearly as big in divested value as all the other recent asset sales combined, yet gets kept hidden well under the mat.
So here we are, the people of NZ, responsible for keeping the marine environment clean so that the fish can thrive, creating and managing marine parks to help sustain fish populations, trying to work out how to mitigate the environmental damage done by commercial trawling, all at our cost, whilst nearly all the value of those fisheries goes into the pockets of the select few commercial fishing operators, whilst the first thing that happens if a species is under pressure is we tell the recreational community to stop catching them. Pretty good setup if you are a commercial fishing company isn't it!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Lethal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2014 at 12:55pm
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The TACC for each fishery is split into 100 million quota shares. A number of these shares are given to each of the companies that have permits to fish in that fishery.

These quota shares: 

  • can only be owned by New Zealanders or New Zealand companies 
  • tell fishing companies what percentage of the TACC they can fish for 
  • determine what the companies’ Annual Catch Entitlement (ACE) will be.

If a fisher catches fewer fish than their ACE allows them, they can sell their extra ACE. If a fisher catches more fish than their ACE allows, they can buy more, if there is any available. If they don’t buy more ACE, they must pay a Deemed Value for every tonne of fish that they catch over their ACE. A Deemed Value is like a fine.

Commercial fishers must report their catches to MFish every month.

Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing
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