Spread set-up... Thoughts please

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    Posted: 06 Jul 2014 at 2:18pm
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Fellas, would appreciate some thoughts...

This was our first season chasing marlin. Got 6 days in, all E, NE of Aldies. Learned lots.

We are fishing our of a 5.7m tinny, with good 15ft stiff riggers, running 4 hooked lures with two surface teasers in close, a bird and squid chain. The boat sits well at 7 max 8 knots and the SR and LR look good on about wave 6 and 7. We've had two fish on, one on SR and one on LR.

Thinking about what I should be trying to improve when towing lures next season and have been questioning whether or not my SC and LC are 1: active enough, 2: far enough back and 3: in clear enough water. They run on wave 3 and 4 off the rod tips and are still both in a fair bit of prop wash. If I try and drop the whole spread back a little the short lures feel a little lazy (bonze scorpion sc and moldcraft wide range on LC).

Was considering either, lighter lures on sc and LC, or investigating how to run all four lures off the riggers. Any thoughts appreciated.

Cheers,
Jason
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote the angler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2014 at 2:34pm
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Have you considered ditching the short corners and just running riggers and a stinger of a pole and maybe a dredge and or a daisy chain of your corners and perhaps running them a bit further back .
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Sea2Sky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2014 at 2:45pm
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Yeah, not a bad idea. Thanks. Would certainly simplify things in close. The question in my mind is whether the short lure / teaser combo is actually helping to raise fish even if they're coming up on the riggers. Just not enough time on the water and fish raised to make any informed decisions at this point, so I'm going almost entirely on gut feel and what the spread looks like from our vantage point on the boat
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote the angler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2014 at 3:10pm
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We always seem to get our hits on the riggers and stinger , dunno if just a coincidence but had a lot more strikes this season when we ran dredge instead of short corner .
Going to simplify it even more this season by running dredge of cleat in one corner a daisy chain of squid/ lures of pancake teaser reel from helm on other side and lures or skip baits of riggers and stinger pole.
A couple of fish on for six days isn't too bad we did about 15 days last season and only had one strike, was very depressing then had a good season this year after tweaking a few things here and there .
I know a guy that got a marlin on his first time trying and I know a guy that took ten years !
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Peter Pakula Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2014 at 5:20pm
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Sea, it sounds like you are using long heavy wind-ons. Great on big high boats. Death to lure action on small boats. Also your speed is too high for such a small boat. Drop back to 6.5knots which will clean the wash up and bring the lures in a wave closer. Also sounds like you are using bent butts in angled rod holders, change them over to straight to get the rod tips up.

If you can't get a wide range working the set-up is wrong somewhere.

Photos would help.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Sea2Sky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2014 at 5:52pm
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Thanks Peter.

One bent butt, and yes angled rod holders. Not running long windons but could definitely look to shorten and lighten leaders.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote jakepitsville Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2014 at 9:09am
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I had years of no bites on my short lures.  By changing the angle of my rod holders we managed to get the lures to run wider of the prob wash.  using  an eNKI LEGEND in close and a BP zuker on LC an even no of hits per rods in the water

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote AlexFyssher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2014 at 9:24am
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We never have our corner lures looked at. Always LR or SG. Sometimes SR but only if the fish becomes un-interested in the longer lures.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote groovyfisherman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2014 at 9:40am
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I've had just as many hits if not more on my SC and LC as my riggers over the seasons. I like to run angled faced lures off coners and try to sit in the 6kt range. I know other guys with boats around your size that only get strikes off their riggers, maybe this is the boats sweet spot.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Blue Asparagus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2014 at 11:04am
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lost of good advice, bit for me you really need to get someone who knows his stuff to go out with you and set the gear and then use power gum or dacron loops. this can be done anywhere at any time personally I would do it before the game season, or now if you dont intend on changing your line out.

you cant buy the experience of some and those who have caught one although can give you advice from there one fish or 2 or 3 are scratching the surface, talk to those who get say 5 to 10 plus a season, this is more consistant and these guys have the experience to help you out after all they are not what we call one hit wonders who tell al how to do it but then run all season and get nothing I know one guy who can help you out, he tries and tries and he raises them and even catches them but things dont go his way for one reason or another, he is a good fisherman to boot and has been with me a number of times, got him his first fish now he is addicted to it. these guys are worth their experience.

those who have spent time on the water are gold, running lure is simple as you will be told but it obviously aint and the one shot wonders are the ones telling you this, get the pakula dvd's or go on line and look at Peters info, again experience and what works and not just for him, its in his best interest to show you how its done as this is his lively hood, you cant beat that,

for me and this is just me with twin engines I drop my lues back and it works and this by only one wave, my lures are like this 1st wave clear window [you can see this, 2nd wave clear window you need to decide what corner is short or long.
short rigger 4th wave long 5th and shotty maybe where ever you want I to ran bent buttsmy riggers were run off straight rod holders, this gave me hight on the rod tim when the fish struck drag on 37 was 5 to 6kg to the button was only 11, the corners were run out of angled rod holder buttttttttt the drag was higher as there was no angle to load up the tip, I also ran then off the riggers but on 2m tag lines the tags were fixed to the lanyard and stayed there this to give the fish a bit of loose line to turn before the hook took up as I say the drag was about 8k not 5 or 6 to the button was still 11, why 11 well they say 1/3 of the breaking strain so we are looking for 12 but 11 just felt a bit better under load IMO. anyways hope that helps but get some out with you today tomorrow when ever and set the boat up on the water and speed mate slow down simple stuff, and yes simple stuff this lure fishing but you have to get the basics sorted 1st and sorted to what works on your boat, oh you had two fish one on each riiger great keep the same lures there thats the rigger sweet spot or there abouts now work on the close in stuff and for me the Pakula animal or the legend Andromeda,  you wont be sorry.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote sid fishus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2014 at 11:07am
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And for the other side of the equation.

Every fish I have ever raised on my boat (not very many) has been on the SC, which is the lure running right behind the witch doctor.

Co - incidence?

NAh dont think so.

Gonna run a dredge and witch doctor next year.
I always tell the truth about things that never happened
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote the angler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2014 at 1:08pm
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they sure do love the dredge allright , hard to see on a trailer boat with out a tower but when we were on arenui i spent alot of time up the top watching fish come up and filming , had fish literally sit below the dredge for couple of minutes seemingly transfixed by it and on other occasions leap on the bloody thing so i know now why everyone uses em overseas , im betting trailer boats raise more fish than u realise you just don't have the elevation to see them.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Sea2Sky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2014 at 6:47pm
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Thanks all. Appreciate all the thoughts. Now a few months to ponder what next, buy a bit more bling and start setting up later in the year!
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Xtoad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2014 at 12:38pm
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Bonze Hercules gets nailed all the time in SC, right up the jacksie of the dredge.
I agree with PK and slow the boat down a little. You'll be amazed what a difference it makes - save some juice too.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Spectrum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2014 at 12:59am
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yea slow it down 6.5 knots fine keep the rigger and rod tips up high to give more lure action
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote the angler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2014 at 7:37am
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Do you guys change speed up if chasing blues ?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote kaveman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2014 at 7:40am
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8-8.5knots for me angler
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Spectrum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2014 at 12:47am
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nar don't speed up for blues but now you mention it we tried running faster for one season 7.5-8 knots in my old 6.8m and it just made the boat unsettled push the transom down burning a lot more fuel in the process and raised a lot less fish but we did hook 2 blues that season lost them both….. only had stripeys at 6 knots but defiantly do raise more at that speed. might have nothing to do with speed thou could be harmonics or more likely where we were fishing. The main reason i say run at 6 knots with a small boat like the 5.7m is that the hull length simply won't let you go any faster displacing as sone as you get much over 6 knots it will start trying to plain and be right on hump speed and makes trolling at a consistent speed very hard. running lures short and high off riggers we raised more fish. in the new rig i should be able to displace around 7.5 to 8 knots so will troll faster because the hull length will allow it but don't think it will be much advantage other than covering more ground. pick some lures that work well at lower speeds, i think Peter P was meant to do a write up on lures for small boat would be worth a read if he has released it 
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote the angler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2014 at 6:26am
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The locals at Waihau told us to speed up to 8 - 8.5 kn if we wanted to target blues , we did but only caught 4 stripes but had some violent strikes that could have been the target species.
We'll get one eventually I'm sure.
Me and me mate runnin diesel inboards so extra fuel use isn't a big concern as it's still cheap .
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Blue Asparagus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2014 at 2:00pm
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target blues and a sure fire way to hook them is at 6-7 knots and use a 50 that is all, 

never heard of speeding up for them but doing 6-7 works fine 
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