Durability of Gulp Baits

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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Potty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2014 at 12:48pm
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I personally haven't noticed any changes in the last year.
I do feel that the head of the soft bait have narrowed compared to 7 years ago when I started soft baiting.
The nitro stealth jig heads give the bait better protection, resulting in more fish per bait. I only use these jig heads now so that could explain why I haven't noticed the change.
Here's another possibility why they might not be lasting as long - we have educated a lot of fish with catch & release, meaning they are shy on the take, this is allowing more of the rubbish fish to destroy the softies.
I still catch a lot of fish soft baiting but only because my skill has improved a lot over the last 7 years. They definitely aren't the push over they used to be.
Love fishing, love my job. It's a bloody shame that they clash.
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If they are not degrading its basically an impact on the future of our environment or our fishery, at the sake of making a few rich. Not forgetting soft plastics are now fashionable and one of the largest items of tackle in consumption.

As for rubbish bags, I hope EVERY fisherman carries their rubbish off the ocean and not into it, surely by now people have seen the devastation plastic and other rubbish is causing in the "sea of plastic"? I dont know anyone who goes to sea and throws stuff over the side.

Comparing high consumption lures to lead is apples to durian fruit.

Not trying to be alarmist, but it is concerning to others surely. Im just hoping there is some lengthy science behind all this in positive of the biodegradability.
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if a softbait floats is that not except able in your book????
reason i say that is when a fish pulls your softbait off the hook and they dont eat it then it becomes rubbish on the beach,
but if they digest it and it causes internal digestive problems that is ok because you only see the dead fish not the softbait???
now either could be good/bad i have know idea but one is being eaten the other is too tough to get pulled off the hook which is the better here???

 
Thanks for everything you did for us Eric. may you rest in peace, You were one of the real legends of NZ recreational fishing
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote FizFisho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2014 at 7:01pm
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neither imo. but if they degrade either in acidic environments (ie a stomach) or quickly in the ocean then i dont see an issue. but i dont have any knowledge of what protocols they have to meet to be allowed for sale, that would be interesting. surely there is a standard?
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote scuzzymoto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2014 at 8:04pm
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This is off the Slam web site in Aussie.. may be relevant may be not- I dont softbait so cant say either way, have seen alot washed up around rocks and seen them in rock pools and streams(alot of them in certain areas), i

BioDegrable Bait 
Written by Bill Jennings, the New Zealand based chemist who has worked on developing the SLAM soft bait products. Article from magazine New Zealand Fishing Coast to Coast, issue 46 2008.


PLASTIC OR BIODEGRADABLE?
There are essentially 2 types of soft bait lures, those made from plastic and those made from biodegradable materials. Unlike soft plastic fishing lures, SLAM soft baits are biodegradable and they are decomposed in the environment by bacteria, and fish are also able to digest it. SLAM soft baits have all the characteristics of soft plastics and the advantage of being biodegradable. SLAM is developed in New Zealand and tested in Australia and New Zealand for our conditions. 

WHAT DOES BIODEGRADABLE MEAN? 
Biodegradation occurs when under the right conditions the bacteria in the environment can break down materials and use them as a food source. It is a process that can take place in many environments including soils, compost sites, water treatment facilities, marine environments and even in the human body. During the biodegradation process carbon is converted into energy, water, carbon dioxide, biomass and mineral salts which maintains the life cycle. Any breakdown products released by the biodegradation are also expected to be non-toxic to the environment and redistributed through the carbon, nitrogen and sulphur cycles. 

METHODS OF MEASURING BIODEGRADATION 
Biodegradation can be measured in a number of ways. Various countries use slightly different test procedures and criteria for defining biodegradability. In simple terms, the commonly accepted ASTM test specifies at least 90% of the material is converted to carbon dioxide, water and biomass by bacterial breakdown at the same rate as natural materials and occurs within 6 months. 

COMMON EXAMPLES OF BIODEGRADATION 
This is how long it may take for some commonly used products to biodegrade:
Banana peel, 2 – 10 days 
Cotton rags, 1 – 5 months
Paper, 2 – 5 months
Orange peels, 6 months
Rope, 3 – 14 months
Wool socks, 1 – 5 years
Plastic bags, 10 – 20 years
Nylon fabric, 30 – 40 years
Plastic six-pack holder rings, 450 years


SOFT PLASTICS 
Millions of soft plastic lures are sold every year. A large number are lost in the water, but plastic lures do not biodegrade in the environment. Some are swallowed by fish or other wildlife, but animals cannot digest plastic lures and they pass unchanged back into the ocean. Many of these plastic lures contain phthalates, which are added to the plastic to make it soft and flexible and these are potentially harmful chemicals. Because soft plastics don't degrade, they persist on the ocean bottom and inside fish. Their impact on rivers and lakes is a matter for debate. But the perception is growing that soft plastics are polluting the environment and probably damaging fisheries. Some European governments have already banned soft plastic baits. 

BIODEGRADABLE SOFTBAITS 
SLAM Soft Baits have been developed by Bitetime Baits in New Zealand as an extension of the Stimulate Ultrabite range. Ultrabite is a patented pheromone which is scientifically and environmentally tested by CEFAS and is certified as being both environmentally and ecologically friendly. Formulation development on the SLAM Soft Baits started in 2006 with the aim of producing a biodegradable lure based on natural ingredients and attractants and incorporating the patented Stimulate Ultrabite pheromones. Biodegradable materials in SLAM are environmentally friendly. The formulation is water based and allows the pheromone incorporated in the lure to permeate into the water to attract the fish.
"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled” Mark Twain
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Moocha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2014 at 8:10pm
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Oh Man  the ole SLAM now that is a blast from the past and behind the word LUMO probably single handily responsible for more locked threads on this site in years past than any others  LOL
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I've found that "sardines" work best for me. Gulp don't sell those in pots.
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Some more interesting info----  

Doctor Gulp's Most Frequently-Asked Questions
By Joe Cermele

Remember back in ’88 when a new trout dough called PowerBait showed up? Know anyone that still swears by the original Power Worm? Well, John Prochnow (photo) developed them both, along with thousands of other scented plastics for Berkley. He is, you could say, the king of fish-friendly fragrance. Prochnow actually started his career developing scents for soap and shampoo and other things that your wife doesn’t mind, unlike the Gulp! juice I spilled in the closet the other day. Yes, Gulp! is Prochnow’s baby, too.

Last night I had a rare chance to sit and talk with him, and I wondered, given that he is the brains behind an innovative bait line that garners both high praise and skepticism, which questions anglers ask most about Gulp! So here are the queries you, the angling public, fire at Prochnow on a regular basis. - Joe Cermele

Q: So what are Gulp! baits made of anyway? 
A: “Gulp! is made of a water-based polymer, unlike many other soft-plastics that are oil-based PVC. That allows us to use a wider variety of smells, because our attractant is also water based, and oil and water don’t mix. Naturally, fish can smell water-soluble liquids better than anything else, and the material allows the baits to hold and release much more scent. I liken Gulp! and other scented plastics to eating lunch on a fishing trip. You have a ham and cheese sandwich in a plastic bag. You take it out and eat it and it’s good. Now, if you were to bite it through the bag, all the ingredients would be the same, but you’re going to taste the bag, too.” 

Q: Hey, is there really a difference between Gulp! and Gulp! Alive? 
A: “Yes. The liquid in a bucket of Gulp! Alive has a high level of hydrating modifiers…a fancy term for chemicals that allow the juice to get absorbed faster. We say that Gulp! Alive baits are rechargeable because those modifiers are always trying to maintain equilibrium. So if you put a bait back in that’s full of water, the chemicals want to get back into that bait and equalize.” 

Q: OK. Then can I put regular Gulp! baits in my Gulp! Alive bucket? 
A: “Sure you can. It may make them a little bit softer, but the Gulp! Alive liquid will get absorbed the same way.”

Q: I think Gulp! baits are too soft. What can I do?” 
A: “Rig a bait and let it air-dry for 15 to 30 minutes. It’ll firm up, and though you might be sacrificing some action, you’ll have a very durable bait. Just be careful not to dry it too long.”

Q: I like lots of action. Any way to give Gulp! Alive baits more of it? 
A: “Put the bucket in the sun. As the liquid warms, the baits will absorb even more and get softer. But just let the bucket warm. If you leave it for hours in 110-degree heat, the baits will get mushy.” 

Q: Should I just toss Gulps! that have dried to rock-hardness? 
A: “Well, if they’re completely dry, they’ll never get back to 100% flexibility no matter how long you soak them. But they will rejuvenate enough to be used as chum pieces or dead-stick cut baits for, say, catfish.”

Q: So your baits are biodegradable. How long do they really stick around? 
A: “That all depends on the environment. In a well-run landfill, a Gulp! bait will be gone in 8 to 10 months. In saltwater, they generally last one to two years, and about the same or a little less in fresh, again depending on current, water clarity and temperature.” 

Q: You invented these things, what’s your favorite? 
A: “Easy. The 3-inch Gulp! Minnow in smelt color. It just catches everything that swims in freshwater. A Native American friend of mine helped develop the shape. We actually copied the bodies of smelts caught in my home waters, the Missouri River in South Dakota. That same pattern also happens to be our top seller.”

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled” Mark Twain
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Uncle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2014 at 8:28pm
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...thanks for sharing that scuzzy.
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Q: I like lots of action. Any way to give Gulp! Alive baits more of it?
A  “Put the bucket in the sun. As the liquid warms, the baits will absorb even more and get softer. But just let the bucket warm. If you leave it for hours in 110-degree heat, the baits will get mushy.
If that's the case maybe we need to chill our gulp alive in the ice bin to achieve a more durable bait.
Love fishing, love my job. It's a bloody shame that they clash.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote FizFisho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2014 at 10:37am
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thanks for that scuzz. i sure hope thats not the case with these lures. totally irresponsible if it is. i saw in another forum someone in the states was doing some research but didnt post the results.

it would be totally different if they werent high consumption, ie metal slices etc. but dumping plastic in the ocean for the sake of "sport" is simply not right surely?
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Q: So your baits are biodegradable. How long do they really stick around? 
A: “That all depends on the environment. In a well-run landfill, a Gulp! bait will be gone in 8 to 10 months. In saltwater, they generally last one to two years, and about the same or a little less in fresh, again depending on current, water clarity and temperature.” 

would of thought 1/2 yrs unacceptable,alloy can gone in 3 months.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (1) Likes(1)   Quote FizFisho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2014 at 10:48am
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yeah i agree pjc. and id imagine there are some not so onto sorts who just chuck the used ones over the side thinking they will degrade because they are advertised so.

thats gonna be one big number 2 for the poor fish :-)
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Originally posted by FizFisho FizFisho wrote:

thanks for that scuzz. i sure hope thats not the case with these lures. totally irresponsible if it is. i saw in another forum someone in the states was doing some research but didnt post the results.

it would be totally different if they werent high consumption, ie metal slices etc. but dumping plastic in the ocean for the sake of "sport" is simply not right surely?





Your looking to hard and not doing enough fishing,jigging for kingies ends in lost jigs,stray lining ends in lost sinkers and s/b ing ends in lost baits and jigheads...simple really,is it right no its not
If you think about anything to much you will end up convincing yourself not to do it.
Shall we ban babies because nappies take 100 years to decompose ?
Or should we choose the system that works for us as individuals ?
Wether it be plastic,steel or water based bait systems its what we use.
I would rather use a lure than a juvenile skipjack tuna bait caught in a trawl net in Fiji.
2009 and 2010 BERKLEY SOFTBAIT COMP CHAMPS,Runner up 2013 ( solo),winner 2013/14 longest kingfish nz fishing competition
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your welcome to your opinions o2.

as stated softbaits are high consumption and are advertised as biodegradable. apples to durian fruit comparisons to defer focus doesnt make them similar.

its a genuine concern.
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Post Options Post Options   Likes (0) Likes(0)   Quote Potty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2014 at 11:11am
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Don't know where you get the high consumption from Fizfisho, not that many people soft baiting these days.
Oh if your really that worried about the environment maybe you should take up spear fishing.
Love fishing, love my job. It's a bloody shame that they clash.
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i do spearfish potty and im also engaged in ecology.

im not saying get rid of soft baits, im asking the question, how degradable and what is the impact? there is clearly a standard mentioned above. do all the lures meet this standard?

not high consumption?  if they werent do you think they could afford to sell them at the prices they do. they are certainly more high consumption to other plastics used in fishing ie bibbed lures.
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Originally posted by FizFisho FizFisho wrote:

your welcome to your opinions o2.

as stated softbaits are high consumption and are advertised as biodegradable. apples to durian fruit comparisons to defer focus doesnt make them similar.

its a genuine concern.







Yes it is a concern ,but what I was alluding to is theres a multitude of things getting flushed/ thrown into the oceans everyday that could have a far more serious effect on fish life
2009 and 2010 BERKLEY SOFTBAIT COMP CHAMPS,Runner up 2013 ( solo),winner 2013/14 longest kingfish nz fishing competition
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yeah i totally agree o2.

what im thinking about is this thread though about gulp firmness, if they do have a standard, i think from gulps perspective they are in between a rock and a hard place.

do they make soft plastics so durable that they dont break down or do they make them so degradable that they all end up in the ocean and even then many get either eaten or spend 2 years in the ocean before breaking down.

i think that might be whats driving the change in manufacturing if there is one.

but it needs some studies behind it to see the real impact not the perceived one. however i personally would imagine a very firm soft bait (like zmans) would have less impact, one that can catch up to say 30 fish before needing to be put in the rubbish. of course ultimately bust offs will happen and some will get into the ecology, but im thinking minimal damage.
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Originally posted by FizFisho FizFisho wrote:

yeah i totally agree o2.

what im thinking about is this thread though about gulp firmness, if they do have a standard, i think from gulps perspective they are in between a rock and a hard place.

do they make soft plastics so durable that they dont break down or do they make them so degradable that they all end up in the ocean and even then many get either eaten or spend 2 years in the ocean before breaking down.

i think that might be whats driving the change in manufacturing if there is one.

but it needs some studies behind it to see the real impact not the perceived one. however i personally would imagine a very firm soft bait (like zmans) would have less impact, one that can catch up to say 30 fish before needing to be put in the rubbish. of course ultimately bust offs will happen and some will get into the ecology, but im thinking minimal damage.




I don't think any form of plastic that ends up in ocean can have " minimal damage" if it doesn't break down at all it must accumilate and there for become a larger problem .
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